Will US troops kill American's ?

reply to post by mf_luder


I made the last anonymous post sorry I was not logged in. But I also wanted to add that I don't think you should take for granted that everyone has a "peashooter" I know for a fact! that some people are better armed than the infantry, as far as peashooters are concerned.

Not a "can you top this", Just food for thought. We all love our government I don't think anyone wants violent conflict, Lets just make sure we know who the good guys are.

reply to post by branty

Will US troops shoot US citizens ?

Kent State shootings

Yes, they will, and have done so in the past.

Not all will do it, but all it takes is one person to get mad because
the crowd has been pelting them with eggs or rocks and you get
a repeat of the above.

Also once gun fire is heard troops get a bit skitish and start looking
for ppl that might be holding something that "looks" like a gun.

So if you are in a area with a heavy troops presence make sure
you are not holding anything that remotely looks like a gun.

You will get ventilated.

reply to post by branty


And that is understandable - but it stands to reason that I'm going to act in self-defense.

I may be a Soldier and all that - but regardless of what ethnicity or national origin someone is, if they attack me - that's on them. Not me. That's just the way it is man. I have a wife and a child. I care more about them than any American. Attack me - well - that jeopardizes their livelihood. I can't have that.

I was making the point that I am among a majority who would never just start murdering Americans.

reply to post by xyankee


You're absolutely right man. That's why a lot of us don't worry too much about the US being overrun by a standing foreign army.

But - that being said - yeah a lot of people "love their government." But something to keep in mind is we are protectors of the Constitution and what it entails - NOT - the government and it's leadership. As I said before as well - martial law is used only in dire situations. There has to be a very good reason. It's not a tool to suppress the populace at the whim of the government - it's (believe it or not) a way to protect the citizens.

If the US Government's leadership voids the constitution - that voids contracts made by all enlisted and officer ranks in the Military. Sad truth - but there it is. I don't care if this site is monitored or not. No one person has the right to void the constitution because "boo hooo hoo sniffle sniffle - we don't like gunses because dey hurt peopless.. sniffle sniffle".

See what happens.

Originally posted by mf_luder
reply to post by branty

 

And that is understandable - but it stands to reason that I'm going to act in self-defense.

I may be a Soldier and all that - but regardless of what ethnicity or national origin someone is, if they attack me - that's on them. Not me. That's just the way it is man. I have a wife and a child. I care more about them than any American. Attack me - well - that jeopardizes their livelihood. I can't have that.

I was making the point that I am among a majority who would never just start murdering Americans.

First I just want to say Thanks for entertaining the subject!

You do know that we all love our family, as for me that is the very reason I would even be involved in this in the first place. I am very afraid of what this country is going to be like when my two boys (5/9) get older. Right now the liberal views and laws that the past and current administrations have put forth takes away many of the freedoms that you and I enjoyed growing up. Those freedoms made this a country to be proud of.

In regard to "but regardless of what ethnicity or national origin someone is, if they attack me - that's on them"

I just want to ask, What if your told to attack them? Is it then on You?

I hope you can see the point I am trying to make. I ask the questions because I am really afraid that some of what is talked about, may very well come to pass.

reply to post by xyankee


By "if you're told to attack them" - do you mean people in the US? If that is what you mean - then no. I would be among others who would disobey direct orders to fire on innocent people.

If you mean people outside the US - I would never kill innocent civilians.

Ever.

But keep in mind the "innocent" part of that. If I can establish a legitimate cause for attacking - it will happen. But I have to be getting shot at or attacked first. I never shoot first.

[edit on 23-2-2009 by mf_luder]

I get sick of this question.

Lets flip it:

Would U.S. citizens kill U.S. soldiers, if their local militia leader ordered them to do so?

I believe.....YES and NO!!!

NO - because its a direct violation on the Constitution. The Military are sworn to oath to serve and protect the Consitution wheather the threat is from outside or indeed coming from the inside.

YES - because there are going to be ALOT of Americans appauled at the Goverment and there NWO plans. Top this with food shortage, no money et cetera, there will be riots on the streets. It will only take one pissed of American to fire a few rounds. The result will, as we all know, be one of retaliation. If the troops are fired upon, then we have to expect them to fire back, Yes?...yes!!!

In addition to this, whats to stop foriegn troops coming in with no mercy at all?

Bad times ahead, bad times indeed.

Be safe everyone, go into hiding and stay away from all the raff that is predicted to happen. If your not involved, you have nothing to worry about.

IP

reply to post by mf_luder


I believe what you say. but the "innocent" part is the whole Key, Men in the military will never know the details, you will be told they are home grown terrorists, and to follow orders, information you get will be twisted to back up there reasoning why you need to take action. Once this happens it will be the hardest decision you will ever have to make because I don't think you will be informed truthfully. It will just have to be a "gut feeling" as to what to do. Remember there would have to be a "dam good reason" why citizens were doing this in the first place.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Not a chance in hell friend and the answer why is simple.

We have more guns, and we outnumber them.

Furthermore as the above post states those people are Americans, our brothers, sisters and friends.

They will turn on their government at the drop of a dime if all went to hell. The government would most likely need to have outside forces attempt to control us.

When push comes to shove, no army will turn on it's own citiziens, especially not when those citizens are better armed and won't take no for an answer.

~Keeper

LOL
You own an automatic rifle?
You own a helmet and kevlar vest that can stop at least some though not all bullets?
You own an armored vehicle?
You own artillery?
You own mobile artillery?
You own mobile armored artillery?
You own AA guns?
You own GA missiles?
You own GG Missiles?
You own a tank?
You own bombers?
You own Fighter jets?
You own Bombs?
You own cruise missiles?
You own Warships?
You own Aircraft Carriers?
You own ICBMs?
You own Warheads for the ICBMs?

Thats why that 2nd amendmend crap is just that, crap. It was valid in its time, when the difference between military technology and what civilians could get their hands on was the length of the barrel of the frontloader. Today the power gap is way to big.

LOL
You own an automatic rifle?
You own a helmet and kevlar vest that can stop at least some though not all bullets?
You own an armored vehicle?
You own artillery?
You own mobile artillery?
You own mobile armored artillery?
You own AA guns?
You own GA missiles?
You own GG Missiles?
You own a tank?
You own bombers?
You own Fighter jets?
You own Bombs?
You own cruise missiles?
You own Warships?
You own Aircraft Carriers?
You own ICBMs?
You own Warheads for the ICBMs?

Its scary , but my original question was "Will American troops shoot on American's and now im getting a list of what they will use. I think it'll start like a peaceful demonstration, then as protesters start to throw things (could be planted agitators) the military will be told to disperse the crowd and then .....TSHTF

reply to post by branty


No they won't. As mfluder said, soldiers aren't brainwashed. They swear to uphold the Constitution, not the government. They have a duty to follow lawful orders, not just any order but lawful orders. An order to fire on unarmed, noncombative civilians isn't lawful. An order to fire on citizens who aren't firing at them, isn't lawful. Now if you pick up a gun and start trying to shoot them, they have every right to save their own lives by taking yours. But will they just start arbitrarily shooting people just because someone with shiny rank says to? Absolutely not. They all have family and friends, and if it came down to someone trying to give them an order to shoot civilians they would be going home to protect their families, not running out and shooting the first civilian they see.

I heard talk that the soldiers are being mentally conditioned to accept all orders, showing no mercy and such. In the Vietnam War, american soldiers brutally murdered a village of 200 women, children and old people who could not defend themselves. It was during this war the psychological training in the army started changing as well. Before Vietnam, only 2 % of soldiers shot to kill, even in battle. I think it went up to 40 %. Similar cases have happened in the Middle East to this date. And don't forget the police violence we see all the time, they kill defenceless civilians right in front of people. Why would the army be different? It is possible they WILL shoot americans. That guy who climbed up in the tower and shot people with a rifle was trained in the army, maybe as an experiment to test their capabilities. They could be drugged as well. I mean really, you think if they've been planning this for so long they forgot the human psychology part? They're not incompotent after all.

I thought about this also before and it's really hard to say. Think about it though if we somehow got the power to try and start a revolution or uphold the constitution as it says we are responsible to do, then of course the american government is going to tell the soldiers that we're just terrorists, or we are traitors to this country whatever the excuse might be.....
On the other hand though I don't think a lot of the troops will buy into it because of personal reasons and their own personal logic. I stress most because there are people in the military who just blindly follow orders without question or logic of reasonable thinking. Even against those soldiers though it would be a tough fight of course because of their advanced equipment against whatever is available to us....
Things could actually even themselves out though with the troops that used their logical thought and opened their mind to what the government was doing, and would switch sides to the freedom fighters and offer their skills and equipment. Either way you want to look at it the whole thing would not be a pretty situation....

Originally posted by branty

LOL
You own an automatic rifle?
You own a helmet and kevlar vest that can stop at least some though not all bullets?
You own an armored vehicle?
You own artillery?
You own mobile artillery?
You own mobile armored artillery?
You own AA guns?
You own GA missiles?
You own GG Missiles?
You own a tank?
You own bombers?
You own Fighter jets?
You own Bombs?
You own cruise missiles?
You own Warships?
You own Aircraft Carriers?
You own ICBMs?
You own Warheads for the ICBMs?

Its scary , but my original question was "Will American troops shoot on American's and now im getting a list of what they will use. I think it'll start like a peaceful demonstration, then as protesters start to throw things (could be planted agitators) the military will be told to disperse the crowd and then .....TSHTF

Not will
Could is the word.
I just wanted to point out how ridiculous tothetenthpowers claim was that american citizens are better armed than their military, and how anachronistic that idea is.

Regarding to your question of course the point is that a bomber pilot does not shoot people, he just delivers his load by pushing a button. Much easier than actually killing another human being. The Result is the same, more or less.

Dont want to frighten anybody: but swear on upholding the constitution and not the government? Dont see *that* stopping anything. Constitution: Rules by wich the government runs. Therefore: Constitution = Government unless Gov breaks the rules. But since they can make the rules to a degree, they dont actually need to break them.

Originally posted by Mudler
That guy who climbed up in the tower and shot people with a rifle was trained in the army, maybe as an experiment to test their capabilities. They could be drugged as well.

Or maybe he was just off his rocker. That explanation would be too simple though I suppose.

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by Mudler
That guy who climbed up in the tower and shot people with a rifle was trained in the army, maybe as an experiment to test their capabilities. They could be drugged as well.

Or maybe he was just off his rocker. That explanation would be too simple though I suppose.

Sure he was. My point is that soldiers have comitted atrocities, no matter what country they're from. American soldiers are not saints because they have taken an oath to the constitution. I'm sure the people in Germany had similar toughts about their own soldies; "They wouldn't hurt us, they are sworn to defend us". They did it anyways. Not saying american soldiers are bad people or nazis or anything, just that in the end, they are not that much better than those from those of other countries. I wouldn't trust my country's military completely either in a martial law situation.

Most would. I think about what would happen if there was a gun confiscation like in New Orleans after Katrina but on a national scale. Military would come to your house and demand the firearms. Sure your safe as long as you play along but what happens when you refuse because what their doing is unconstitutional? At that point your resisting, maybe your a terrorist now...

Originally posted by Jenna
No they won't. As mfluder said, soldiers aren't brainwashed.

Yes they will, and mfluder is wrong, soldiers are completely brainwashed.

Just look on the boards and see how many military people still have a worship of authority that was instilled in them by their training. Look at some of the avatars that glorify war, violence, warriors and especially the corp'.

They will follow orders by a superior! Military training is all about not questioning orders, Protecting your brothers in arms and having a "we vs Them" mind set. The THEM is determined by the officers. And you don't get to be an officer by being a malcontent and thinking for yourself.

It's easy to program young men and women into thinking and believing
their mission is the only thing worth fighting and dieing for.

And the MISSION is determined by the Superior officers and the grunts will get with the program or else.

Actually basic training is one of the most effective "Brainwashing" tools devised by man. Far superior to Public school systems.

Never forget the soldiers in the Nazi army were just ordinary citizens before they were in the army and they were manipulated to round up, gas, torture, and kill 6 million of their fellow human beings.

You think it can't happen here; THINK AGAIN!!



[edit on 23-2-2009 by whaaa]

Originally posted by Mudler
My point is that soldiers have comitted atrocities, no matter what country they're from.

Agreed, but so have people who aren't soldiers. Being a soldier doesn't make you more inclined to do horrific things. Some people seem to forget that they are people too, and when you get a large group of people together there are going to be some who my grandpa would say "just aren't right in the head". Doesn't matter if they are in the military or not.

reply to post by Wethesheeple


You mean when the cops were confiscating weapons so that those who didn't evacuate wouldn't kill each other? Cops and military are two different things.