Scores killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Its amazing too me. Isreal basically practices the same tactics of say Saddam Hussein in terms of media control yet no one says boo

And yet when you try to counter post stuff from the other side you get that anti semite lable slapped on you.

You may not like Al Jazerra but it reflect how we are seen outside the idylic world our MSM posts for us.

reply to post by pepsi78


People who act like animals should be caged.

When you take the history all the way back, it is clear that Islam is a religion of war and conquest, and that is all the Muslims who follow the faith seem to be capable of doing.

You people who call for the death of Israel have no moral stand to make your position. You support murdering terrorists who bomb and kill anyone they can for political motivation in the same of some supposed god. Your attempts to claim to be on the side of justice is a travesty.

The Palestinians who are of Arab descent have no right to the land than the Israelis. Just because Muslims conquered the land a thousand years ago, doesn't mean they get to claim it forever.

Those Palestinians who choose to live in Peace can develop their own country, those who can not learn to swallow their pride, and admit the losses of a war that they started do not deserve to have their own country. They gambled it away with war.

reply to post by FredT

And yet when you try to counter post stuff from the other side you get that anti semite lable slapped on you.

I agree completely. Unfortunately I wasn't surprised when the "You hate Jews" cry came out from some posters. That is usually the last resort of those who have no VALID argument on their behalf. In fact, what people like that are really saying is that they don't have a counter-argument, and it is a veiled admission of defeat on their part.

History says that Menachim Begin used the same tactics that the Israelis accuse the Palestinians of. Israel can't have it both ways. If they consider Begin a "patriot", then Hamas is a patriotic organization trying to win back land that they held at a point in history.

reply to post by pepsi78


From what I read here, you are the one encouraging the terrorist to kill innocent people.

If you attack someone, you have no right to complain when they attack back.

On the farm, we treated our dogs like family, but if one of the dogs bit someone, it was taken out back and done away with.

Murderous thugs always find a reason to justify their acts, and it is Hamas, along with all the other Muslim terrorist, and those who support them, who think that they can justify their murderous actions.

Hamas started firing rockets into Iraeeli territory, they must be stopped, and dealt with.

reply to post by IAF101

I'm sorry but I cant bother tearing the article down because should I start it would take me all day and maybe even a few days. Thats just too much effort for something that I'm sure somebody else will regurgitate a few months later somewhere else!

I am not sure if that is true, that the British Government’s Official Correspondences and Public Records are actually some how controlled by the Palestinians. I feel obliged to accept the British Government’s account at its word since they were in fact the lawful authority in Palestine and being English and Angelical it would be hard to image them influenced or tainted by Islam. I have managed in my research to uncover some very prominent Zionist British Lords like Lord Balfour and Lord Rothschild but to date no Arab Lords in the British Government or aristocracy.

I will conduct a search and see if I can uncover any Islamic, or Arab influences from within the British Government during this time frame just to make sure.

Thanks, in the meantime here is another example of the mentality involved by people like former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir as evidenced in a Stern Gang Pamphlet from his era as the Stern Gang's leader:

A Stern Gang pamphlet found in Hadar Hacarrnel, Haifa, on May 7, 1947, illustrates their fanaticism and intellectual confusion: (1)

"Innocent blood will not be shed, but the blood of rioters, pogrom-heroes and murderers will be shed, for it is defiled. And so is the blood of each Briton, ruling beyond the frontiers of his country. The British blood-sucker, to be a soldier, a constable, a clerk, so long as he obeys orders to exploit and murder, he is indicted. He is here to guard the imperialist rule and prevent the rescue of the Jews. For this his blood will be shed.

It is unavoidable that in this war innocent blood will be shed as well, but there has never been a war or revolution 'with all comforts," without privations, without destruction, without bloodshed. Let those among us who are afraid of bloodshed and destruction say openly that they surrender to a New Munich, to each White Paper, which leads to a ghetto and ultimately to new gas-chambers a la Auschwitz. They sit in their homes waiting for the day of the great slaughter which Bevin and his partner Kaukji are preparing for us, waiting for Jewish youth to be mobilized by the Anglo-Saxons in their war against the Soviet Union. They cry over defiled British blood, but remain silent over the blood of innocent refugees. The blood of the strong one must be protected, the blood of the weak one may be shed. Why don't they try to force the British to stop bloodshed, why do they force us?

Why are you shouting from your walls (Hahoma Wall) about innocent Jewish blood being shed by the "terrorists," while not admitting the murder of 230 innocent refugees of the "Patria"? How dare you accuse us of murder while you killed tenfold as many Jews on a single occasion? Reply!

Jewish blood is sacred and pure. The blood of Britons suppressing foreign countries is defiled. Therefore it will be shed to prevent innocent blood from being shed."


It does seem to be fanatical and violent, and the British were lawful governors operating under United Nations authority in an agreement the Zionists were actually a signatory and party too. Simply put the British weren’t firing rockets at the Zionists but simply trying to get them to honor the Mandate agreements of accepting that 52% of the land was to be awarded to the Arabs and 48% to the Zionists and Jews, with Jerusalem to remain an open and free city overseen by the Holy See in Rome in perpetuity.

What is most telling about the mainstream news media is that Israelis live under the threat and reality of daily car bombs, mortar fire, suicide bombings, missle attacks and the like that have numbered up to at least 80 strikes. Yet the media remains silent about that. Only when Israel retailiates does it somehow become newsworthy.

I would say that 99.9% of the folks posting on this thread (myself included) need a serious history lesson. No one on here is qualified to be posting and acting like they are the end all be all and know the complete history of what has transpired in the ME and beyond regarding Arabs, Jews, Muslims and Christians.

Your biases are what they are and lets leave it at that.

People who act like animals should be caged.

People who act like animals may verywell act like that for a reason, they may be pushed to that limit by others.You may contradict my argument, I dare you.

When you take the history all the way back, it is clear that Islam is a religion of war and conquest, and that is all the Muslims who follow the faith seem to be capable of doing.

First can you please give examples of conquest please.

Second we have killed more in the crussades and made conquests than anyone together when it comes to religion.
The first person who discovered the letter matrice as a printing solution was burned on a stick by the inquisition.That is history for you.

You people who call for the death of Israel have no moral stand to make your position.

Jews and Palestinians lived in peace for thoulsands of years before anyone shouted ISRAEL.No one had claim to the land, the curent events are due to "we are incharege here"

You support murdering terrorists who bomb and kill anyone they can for political motivation in the same of some supposed god. Your attempts to claim to be on the side of justice is a travesty.

Ohh boy here we go again.I support the people of Palestine because it's a very sad story and I have compasion for disfavorite people.The ones that chose to become part of extreme mejures have done so because they find no other solution.Why that is? If they comply they lose anyway, it's the agenda, statistics don't lie.Look what is happening in the West Bank, land is taken away and given to the settlers.It's the general agenda plan, but you and others refuse to look at it that is your problem.

Israel had no right there as a name.The place was for commun usage
for everyone.Jews left and then they came back, and no one said anything there, and had no problems with the Jews.It was only after the invention of Israel that things began to take a turn.

I'm sure Jews are not to blame, only Israel as a state.The problem is the state it's self.I'm sure if Israel go's away then Jews and Palestinians will learn to live in peace once again in a mixed inviorment, they have done it
a long time ago so they can do it again.

You have such a short description for everything it makes one wonder how you manage to reapeat one thing alover again so many times.

Peace

Dubai has cancelled all forms of New Year celebrations, as a token of solidarity with the Palestinian people.


Dubai Cancels New Year Celebrations

reply to post by princeofpeace

I would say that 99.9% of the folks posting on this thread (myself included) need a serious history lesson. No one on here is qualified to be posting and acting like they are the end all be all and know the complete history of what has transpired in the ME and beyond regarding Arabs, Jews, Muslims and Christians.

One of the things I love most about ATS is the ability to learn through a lot of the shared postings of ideas, oppionions, theories, and referenced links even more about history, the world we live in, people and human nature.

Arguably this particular subject is the preeminent touchstone of so much of what is driving world politics and in many ways is the embodiment of the cultural divide of East versus West that propels a lot of the world's conflicts.

Ultimately I think its in both Eastern culture and philosphy's interest and Western philosophiies and culture to open mindedly learn enough about each others to find some medium ground where the billions of people involved can live in peace.

I don't always believe U.S. Policy is in tune with the actual will or morality of the actual citizens it purports to represent and I don't believe that Israeli policy, or Hamas policy is any different.

I have a lot of great friends and associates who are Christans, Jews, Muslims, Hindu and even New Age metaphysical types.

I hope I am not sounding so one sided as to be stereo typing any group of people as greater, better or more correct than the other. I am simply advocating a deeper look at the side of events that often gets overlooked as to the victor goes the spoils and the looser often gets little in the way of acknowledgement.

Might does not always make right though. The Arabs have committed some spectacular blunders especially early on when they couldn't envision but seemed to fear that that things could eventually end up along these lines.

The least effective form of domination is through intimidation because the submission will only be as long lived as the perception of weakness of the subjucated or their ability to live under the yoke of tyranny.

It's far better to inspire one to follow than to cower one into it. That usually requires a degree of humbleness that is evidently lacking all the way around.

If the mighty can't see their shortcommings and tactical and intellectual errors, it's not likely the weak shall either.

I suppose it boils down to whether people want peace or war.

I spend a lot of hours reading what others post, studying the reference material they provide and then using it as a basis for more research.

I learn a lot through these forums. I appreciate that opportunity very much.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Wow, Proto, your best post by far. I honestly didn't think you had it in you. No doubt both sides could do better.

reply to post by neformore


Jenin didn't happen. They say it was a massacre. Last time I checked it wasn't a massacre, so the Jenin Massacre didn't happen. Yes there was some action, and some people died, but it wasn't a massacre.

reply to post by pepsi78


Yes, well, we all act like animals now and then, but there are those things we should not due, and randomly firing misile into civilians populations with no military activity are not one of them.

The Palestinians are getting back what they have been giving and then some, as they should be getting for supporting the terrorist policies of Hamas.

Certainly Israel could do more to make things right, but the Palestinians need to make an effort as well, and they could start simply by recognizing Israel.

The Palestinians wanted to push the Israelis into the sea originally, so it is very hard to have sympathy for them now, especially when they ended this last truce by firing misiles into Israel.

Who has the Muslims conquerred or attempted to conquer, or conquered at one time? You can't be serious, you really don't know this? I can't believe how many people make this claim of ignorance.

Syria, Jordan, Jerusalem, Persia, India, Nothern Africa, Spain, Serbia, and attempted to conquer Europe, BEFORE Europe started fighting back. Muslims are still trying to take even more land from India, and are busy conquering Africa.

Do you know why the language that it is believed was spoken by Christ is going extinct? Because when Arabs conquerred that area, they made it illegal to speak the native tongue of Aramic.

What language do the so called Palestinians speak? Arabic.

Palestinians are the newest of all the peoples on the face of the Earth, and began to exist in a single day by a kind of supernatural phenomenon that is unique in the whole history of mankind, as it is witnessed by Walid Shoebat, a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against:

“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
“We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
“When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.

Originally posted by pepsi78
[
First can you please give examples of conquest please.

Islam started in present day Saudi Arabia in 632 AD. From that time onward, it was all about conquering territory - the Byzantine Empire, all of North Africa, the Balkans, Spain, until the muslim armies were finally defeated in France at Tours and in Austria at Vienna. Part of the story of Columbus was that the rulers of Spain - Ferdinand and Isabella - were in the process of defeating the Moors (muslims) in Spain and turning Spain once again into a Christian country.

Please do just a little historical research before asking a question like this ...


[edit on 12/31/2008 by centurion1211]

reply to post by poet1b

When you take the history all the way back, it is clear that Islam is a religion of war and conquest,

Lest I remind of you of the Christian crusades?

and that is all the Muslims who follow the faith seem to be capable of doing

I follow the faith, do I strike you as a terrorist my friend?

You people who call for the death of Israel have no moral stand to make your position

I haven't called for the death of Israel, but it seems YOU could go on forever about bringing death to the Muslims and locking them in a cage like animals.

Originally posted by Majorion

Lest I remind of you of the Christian crusades?

The Crusades:

Which - just like the Israeli response to palestinian missile attacks - were a response to muslims conquering what was then perceived by Christians of that time as the Holy Land.

From 325 AD onward this area was part of a the Christian Roman and later the Byzantine Empire. In the Middle Ages, muslims conquered the area. the Crusades were an attempt to take the area back from the muslims.

Now, who was there first and is therefore the rightful owners of this land?


[edit on 12/31/2008 by centurion1211]

reply to post by centurion1211

response to muslims conquering what was then perceived by Christians of that time as the Holy Land.

So Christians perceived Jerusalem as the Holy Land too? .. It seems many religions share the same mindset and beliefs, yet Islam is the one solely about war and conquest?

BTW, I noticed you wrote "muslims" with a small letter at the beginning but "Christians" starts with capital letter? Perhaps a hint of your true colors?

reply to post by Majorion


Yes, way before there were any such thing as muslims, Christians considered that area as the Holy Land.

Read my updated post.

And read into it whatever you want to. Your choice entirely ...



[edit on 12/31/2008 by centurion1211]