why do we need school?

School is to pre-program the kids and give them false information
of their shady and questionable past. To set them up as another
cog in the wheel.

Teacher: 2 Big Macs at 2.99 each is what little Billy?

Billy: 5.98 Miss Teachington!

Teacher: That's incorrect Billy, you forgot about tax. The correct answer
is 6.46.

Billy:
What is the purpose of tax?

Teacher:
Well, uhhhh. You see the government gave some government bonds to
the Federal Reserve, which isn't actually part of the government. In return
They waved a magic wand and changed some numbers on a computer
screen to be more than is really there. Our government needs to pay back
that money with interest on top of it, so tax is implemented and passed along to everyone else in the form of tax.

Billy:
Wow!! That's interesting. Doesn't this make the dollar progressively less
and less valuable?!

Teacher:
Never mind that Billy. Solve for X, get a mediocre degree, work a dead
end job and help the government pay back the loan they took out. Accept
that you are a slave to debt. Or strive high, get great grades and become
a doctor and find a cure for disease and still help the government pay those
loans back. Careful, that cure you may discover could get in the way of
bringing the population down to 500 million. I'm sure funding will get cut
short to pay for a war anyhow. Good luck, Billy.

Billy:
Yes Mam!

One other thing about education and diplomas.
I more or less flunked out of High School. Partially because of grades, partially because of not having enough of the required service hours.
Later on, when I needed a job, I ended up needing either a diploma or a GED.
When I took the GED, most of the stuff on the test was what I'd learned in school.

Why is that important?
Businesses require it for a few reasons.
One is insurance, certifications of skill help cover the business in cases where insurance takes affect.

The other would be as a proof of competency. Someone hiring you will not necessarily have any proof of your skill. Some places could have you do work to verify you can do what you claim to, but without some sort of verification it's hard to prove you know or are experienced with what you say you are.

As for school, a lot of what you know is based on what you learn at school, even if a lot of it seems redundant.

I didn't read all of the posts here, but this is what I know about school:

In school you are a worker...you are expected to do your job to meet the expectations of those who demand it from you. You are treated more like a prisoner than anything. If you want anything besides what you are "supposed" to be wanting you are neglected or punished for it. It is a jungle where those who were born into the higher levels in the economic totem pole will survive and the ones who don't conform to the rules of the jungle will "die". I have a problem with school. I am sick and tired of our corrupt, inhumane, numb society in general.
Oh yes I did learn proper grammar and math skills which are useful when trying to sound intelligent. I learned the correct format of essays and the french passe compose which will help me convince people that I have skills that they could use me for. I learned about evolution, the U.S. Constitution, and many different historical events which may or may not be the truth or in effect as I was blindly taught. Mostly for me school is just the beginning stages of becoming a fully grown sheeple (sherson?). I have no control over society, but I can control myself and I think that is a great achievement that people should take more time to learn how to do properly. For a rich country like the U.S. we sure do know how to make civilization more carnal and survival oriented than many third world countries even do. Some call it the American Culture, I call it survival of the fittest where the golden rule is: Those with the gold make the rules.

I am a senior in high school and used to love school as a kid, but have grown to hate it now that I understand it. I have always excelled in all my classes until I began to realize how worthless it all really is. Now I just kinda do what I gotta do to get by with the least amount of hassle, but I still hate school. I say I don't care that much, but it is kind of hard to just let go. Today I got an essay back that should have been a B, but was marked as an F...the teacher had generalized my paper in with the rest of the class' bad grades and just skimmed it over. I pointed out many major grading errors after class and she gave me a B. It's not my job to correct my teacher's careless grading. I wouldn't have embarrassed her if it wasn't a required class I have to pass to graduate. In another class I am supposed to interview a family member about a family tradition. What a great assignment for me who lives with just one family member who sleeps during the day and works nights and I never see and who doesn't even really have any family traditions. I also have to make a Christmas card for the troops and I am anti-war and not a christian. I shouldn't have to pay for my teacher's horrible assignments. I also have to take an arts class of some kind. I am taking art 1 where we learn about the color wheel and we draw pictures of pots and name designs. I feel like I am taking elementary school all over again. I'm not taking math because last year I failed the semester that I moved to my new school along with the rest of my horrible pre-cal teacher's class (the cheerleading coach and she decided not to teach it this year). I won't bore you with the rest of my prison school drama, except that all I ever hear is that I need to make good grades to get scholarships to go to college to get a job. I disagree. I think I should not let my schooling get in the way of my education.

reply to post by N. Tesla


hmm the reason you need school is so that you are formally educated about some basica natural science, the history of your GREAT country (yes, we've done some great things, and need to improve as well, thats YOUR JOB as well as mine since Im only 21), basic laws of economics so that you have a bit of business sense so you arent clueless as to how why your home made mechanic industry may go down during this recession, math so you cannot get ripped off by quick talking number people with bad intentions ( I could easily confuse you and say "trust me", English so you can read contracts and little things so you dont make stupid, uneducated descisions and go "but i didnt know" when it was explicitly in the contract (like so many youth make credit mistakes etc), i guess tech class (forgive me i went to private school) so you can repair things around the house (dunno if you're talking like repairs and carpentry stuff or computers), gym so you're ont an out-of-shape assclown and a BG in tons of things so you know what you wanna do with you're life, or if you dont (have a BS in accounting and going to most likely work in sales) at least know tons of stuff about Financial statements so that when I do open my own mbusiness, I can talk to my numbers people and know exactly whats going on. Communication on XYZ is so important. IF a brilliant nerd comes to me with XYZ product and says I could get to the moon with this! Ill tell him ok.... so oyu want money? wheres the return. I may disagree because it may not make me profit but joe the smooth talking english guy may konw a bit about numbers and be able to convince me that the project should take place. The reason why I end up learning about sociology is because when im a rich guy Im supposed to be sympathetic to people who didnt have it as good as me (like MY dad, but I totally understand now where thats coming because hes an alcoholic and if he didnt haev such a great work ethic I'd be a screw up). I talk to historians all the time, an you know things like nationalism and the banking system and protesting and what exactly is a terrorist and why shouldnt I impose my christian beliefs on everyone is exactly why i SHOULD know history, regardless of if I want to or not. Also, communication amongst different groups for good ideas needs to happen, and for big projects per say, everyone needs to be on board.




Saavy?

reply to post by N. Tesla


You don't. You could choose to be illiterate and get a nice job as a Sanitation Worker somewhere. Depends on what life you want. Want money and nice things then study hard. Satisfied with crappy old cars and don't mind doing crap jobs for a living, drop out. The choice is yours to make. Some choose to live in Mommy's basement until they are old and leech off their Parents.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Want money and nice things then study hard.... Some choose to live in Mommy's basement until they are old and leech off their Parents.

And others choose to become part of the problem and like to think that money and nice toys equal success in life. Those with the most toys win, right?

There is a direct and positive correlation between education level and income. The more education you have, the higher your income will be on average. That doesn't mean everyone that has lots of education has lots of money, just that education teaches you the skills and gives you the ability to analyze the world in a way that usually leads to higher income. There are lots of unemployed PhDs. There are many, many more unemployed high school drop outs.

Quick answer: Go to school for your entire life. Quit complaining.

Always, always, ALWAYS think for youself too, don't let ANYBODY shove information down your throat unless YOU agree with it.

Always, always, ALWAYS put a question mark "?" above EVERYTHING you see and hear, which is what critical thinking is ALL ABOUT.

PEOPLE WHO CAN THINK CRITICALLY HAVE THE WORLD BY THE BALLS!!!

We need education that does not mean we need school.In fact school can be the least efficient way to get an education.The assumption that we need to spend a lot of money and spend hour after hour in a class with a teacher whose time is divided between 20 or more students is ridiculous.The things that contibuted the most to my education was the books and myself taking the time to learn rather than the school itself or the teachers.I could have made better use of some of the thousands that was spent on me to go to school .some of my teachers were horrible and school is not always the best enviroment for learning.I only had one teacher that made a point of spending time with each student.

Originally posted by cancerian42

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Want money and nice things then study hard.... Some choose to live in Mommy's basement until they are old and leech off their Parents.

And others choose to become part of the problem and like to think that money and nice toys equal success in life. Those with the most toys win, right?

Exactly!

Some Americans find it very very hard to believe that a person could possibly be happy without money and a good "education". Some people like me just don't need nice things. I guess i'm not greedy.

Hell I even feel guilty starting my car knowing that kids out there are trying to find food because they haven't eaten in 3 days.

As Mark Twain once said "I never let schooling interfere with my education".

It's all about money money money.

I would rather not have things like that bog my life down.

Until all of us fat ass americans realize that there are people starving out there, I will try and consume as little as possible. The more money I have the more I consume. The less money I have the less i'm taking from people who need it.

reply to post by N. Tesla


Not 'exactly'. The system should not be replaced with one that is more specialized.

A well rounded person is simply smarter than one who isn't, and has more potential to benefit society.

Turning out people with only the skills they need is like turning out drones.

reply to post by theendisnear69


I believe you couldn't be more right. No one I know understands me thinking this way either, but is it really so hard for people to understand being humble. I guess when you go to American schools it is a little challenging.

I think a better question would be just why our education system sucks so hard.

I understand your frustrations; but not enough people care to bring about any real change. I think you can see this from some of the comments here.

While I managed to get top academic at my high school, did so entirely with hard work. I came to class every day, did all my homework to perfection, and studied hard for exams. I still don’t know how I managed to get through some of those weeks, living on less than 3 hours sleep per day. I kept that up for three years, and it only got worse as the years went on (and in university, things are shaping up to be a completely different monster). Meanwhile I feel as if I have wasted my time. While I did manage to earn a few thousand dollars in scholarships, I have very minimal work experience, and have a foundation based upon a very random and unpredictable pool of knowledge.

“Why go through all the trouble?”, you may ask. I did so under the vain belief that if I achieved top grades in high school I would be given some credibility to talk about the issue. I attended all the district awards nights, and the sucking up was nearly unbearable. Each year the person who got the top grade 12 in the district through together some idealistic speech in which they talked about how great the education system is and how many avenues there are to succeed, “blah, blah, blah…” Unfortunately, I didn’t make my goal of top grades in the district, so I never got to make my speech.

[Insert passionate speech here]

I appear to have lost my speech (*cough* [actually, considering my IQ, this would probably take several years to produce]), but I will provide a few solutions I have been thinking of:

(Keep in mind that these should loosely apply to university/college as well)

1. Eliminate grade levels, and replace them with a ladder system (there needs to be a visible and accessible ranking system). A ladder system would provide students with the motivation to succeed, just like in games, where kids grind obsessively simply to be the best.
   
   
2. Provide more room for failure, and less emphasis on single tests. The only way a student is going to learn is if they are allowed to fail. I never gave myself the chance to fail, but my life was/is hell because of it. A students mark should not be based on unalterable test/assignment marks. Allow students to take exams whenever they want, with appropriate delay for failure.
   
   
3. Let a teacher teach a class at a suggested pace, but let students surpass, or fall behind this curve so that they have the appropriate amount of time they need to absorb course material.
   
   
4. Let teachers know that if they suck, they will get paid less, or lose their job.
   
5. Also, let teachers know that if they are really good, they will get paid more.
   
6. And let students play a role in deciding this!
   
   
7. Finally, don’t require students to take particular courses, just assign appropriate weights to courses so that they are compelled to take a course. I hated English for the pointless essays and Social for the forced cramming, but perhaps with all the above changes, I might be compelled to take the course.
   

Anyway, since I now know that I have no chance of being heard by anyone who could make a difference, I have set my sights towards the fields of neural engineering and artificial intelligence, whereby I hope to participate in subverting the issue. Perhaps in the future, we will have access to a ‘Wikipedia on demand’, so to speak, and there will no longer be use for memorization.

I almost forgot,

Grades need to measure more than simply a pooled score of abilities; Grades should measure things like work ethic, speed, and leadership, among other things.

[edit on 2/12/08 by Thaumaturgus]

I don't want to say your an idiot but well, your kind of an idiot.

I'm more or less in a semi-same position, I'm a junior in high school and I find it important while unimportant. The purpose of all those classes you take (math, geography, history, English, etc.) is to basically ensure that your more well rounded for when you finally decide on what you DO want to do. Most kids don't have any idea what they truly want to do with their lives until towards the end of high school or even much later, so basically its to ensure that you change your mind while going to college (if you so choose), you won't be screwed and have to take another 12 years of classes as to catch you back up.

But on with that, I can agree to a certain degree that high school's academics can be somewhat unimportant. Well, let me rephrase that, I think the standards that they set (such as Alg. 2 for math, English IV for well, English, and so on) are pretty reasonable because whatever your job may be (whether it be a psychologist, engineer, gym teacher, archaeologist, and so on), its good to have the basic understandings of how things work such as grammar and being able to do algebra/geometry, but as well some of the classes ought to help you think outside of the box as to "Well why did that happen? Did WWII happen all because of Hitler or were there many other contributing factors?".

With that being said, I do agree that high school can be an annoyance if you've passed those requirements (which I'm guessing you haven't), and say if your a junior your in AP classes, or even an earlier grade and passed the requirements, and I think they should make a change that if the parents are alright with it and the students have done well enough - they can graduate early.

The main importance to high school that I can really come to grips with, or actually just school in general is learning how to socialize (which also makes me feel somewhat bad for the CDC kids, because at least in my school, they completely isolate them from the rest of the students because some kids are harsh and may tease them, which is good and bad, but I think mostly bad because it defeats the entire purpose of learning how to interact with people because you will NEVER find a place where everyone is 100% tolerant and understanding and you will ALWAYS face adversity whether your gay/straight/white/black/pink whatever, and it sucks they don't get to learn that because they're completely sheltered). You can be the smartest guy out there in quantum-physics, but I still guarantee that if your a complete ass, you won't get the job - compared to a guy with a little less technical standards but interacts with people very well.

Hopefully this post will actually mean something because you ought to relish what you have rather than complain about it, because chances are I won't ever look at this thread again. Have a good night man.

Originally posted by cancerian42
And others choose to become part of the problem and like to think that money and nice toys equal success in life. Those with the most toys win, right?

No. Maybe its different up here in Canada, but the one with the most letters after their names, and the highest marks, and the best education - get the better jobs. The last time I saw someone working at McDonalds with a Doctorate...oh right, that hasn't happend yet.

- Carrot


[edit on 12/2/2008 by CA_Orot]

When I was in high school I had the same problem as you. I looked up in the sky at the stars and wondered, why the hell do I need to go in and read Jane Eyre and do a report? I am on a small piece of dust floating in space.

The fact is, we are doing meaningless tasks. The fact is, you don't have to school. But if you want to get somewhere in this world, you just need to tough it out. Sorry. just like you need to inhale and exhale to breathe even if living is pointless.

I have another take on this.

Ever since 1971, when the US relinquished the gold standard as our primary currency reserve, and adopted the fiat backed currency reserve, Americans have become exceptionally complacent. Add economic change to an overall significant decrease in the population, and you have one ultra privileged population, which is unaware of the circumstances that maintain that quality of living. The fact is there is so little competition these days in terms of education and business, and by extension, less capital production, and so much consumption that most Americans who would have otherwise not received the quality of living they do today, are getting far more from the economy, regardless of their qualifications and experience. We have been granted the luxury of a liberal education, which has no apparent or pragmatic value, while the rest of the world is working so much harder than we are. A population boom seems highly unlikely in the near future, so a lot of the functions, which were once relegated across an entire market, are now being focused on far fewer individuals. In the 50's and 60's, people were capable of pursuing highly technical careers, and surviving in those jobs for the entirety of their lives. Now, however, we can expect to change careers completely, not simply our occupations, up to five times in our life. The fact is, if you don't diversify, just as any economy should, you will crash and fail. You have to make all learning relevant to you, not just that, which you are "interested" in, or rather that, which you are naturally proficient in, whether you want to accept that or not. It's ultimately up to you, but in this century having a narrow mindset is not a good idea, nor will it be for future generations.

I think that why we go to school is to learn how to understand new and old things and form our own individual opinion.

[edit on 2-12-2008 by Man on Fire]

Originally posted by CA_Orot

Originally posted by cancerian42
And others choose to become part of the problem and like to think that money and nice toys equal success in life. Those with the most toys win, right?

No. Maybe its different up here in Canada, but the one with the most letters after their names, and the highest marks, and the best education - get the better jobs. The last time I saw someone working at McDonalds with a Doctorate...oh right, that hasn't happend yet.

- Carrot


[edit on 12/2/2008 by CA_Orot]

I think you missed the point there. The point wasn't that those with the fanciest cars and the most $500 gadgets are the ones better off in life. The point was that you can still be successful in life without these things. Success is not always evaluated by the amount of money you have.

Who cares is you've never seen a person with a doctorate working in macdonalds?

Originally posted by cancerian42
In another class I am supposed to interview a family member about a family tradition. What a great assignment for me who lives with just one family member who sleeps during the day and works nights and I never see and who doesn't even really have any family traditions. I also have to make a Christmas card for the troops and I am anti-war and not a christian. I shouldn't have to pay for my teacher's horrible assignments. I also have to take an arts class of some kind. I am taking art 1 where we learn about the color wheel and we draw pictures of pots and name designs. I feel like I am taking elementary school all over again.

I really feel for you. The assignments you talk about ARE elementary school type of work.

My daughter had to do many of those in the 4th and 5th grade! The family tradition assignment really bothered me! In the 4th grade, she had to write about her family traditions. I'm a single mom, not a lot of money. We have simple, boring traditions like opening a gift on x-mass eve. BUT, we have one unusual one. My girls have to wait until they are 12 to get their ears pierced. That’s the age when I got mine pierced, and I keep the tradition because I think it’s good for my girls to decide if they want to put holes in their bodies. The tradition means something, and they were excited about this tradition until she did the paper in 4th grade and shared it with the class. The kids laughed at her (because most of the girls had their ears pierced when they were a baby), and they basically sh*t all over our one unique family tradition.

I don’t know why they don’t teach tolerance and respect! Now, my daughter is in middle school, and it’s not better. Their class has to recite The Night Before Christmas. I asked my daughter how one of her best friends felt about having to memorize that poem, being that her friend is Jewish! Look, I’m a Christian, but I don’t think that’s respectful to other children who have different religions. School is hard enough with out feeling like the teachers don’t care about you as a person.

From what I’m hearing on this post, it doesn’t get better in high school. But cancerian42, you sound like an intelligent, caring person. Do not give up. Be smarter than the system and educate yourself on your own time, and just do the stupid work at school.