why do we need school?

i never said that education isn't necessary i am simply stating that the way the system works is flawed. everyone needs to learn but i don't see why school is the only option we get. tons of people could do better learning on their own.

why do those people have to share a room with others that can't even seem to form sentences together without using ebonics or slang.

"if parents dont force kids to learn they won't."

That's like saying if parents don't force their kids to eat, they won't. I think a lot of kids are naturally hungry for knowledge and want to learn about things that interest them. I know as a kid I was obsessed with meteorology, geology, and astronomy. I loved learning which should be the goal for our students, not some force feeding of information which is going to get purged after they've left the dinner table......okay enough metaphor

The whole "Test and Forget" mindset of our education system is awful. It's a complete waste of time and it burns students out. As you said, so much of what they learn is pointless. Nursing school is a good example, you could literally know English and basic math and you'd do fantastic. After completing you'd be making a salary of about 60k which would be pretty nice for skipping all the other BS you "learn" and forget in school.

Basically, there is no point in school and it harms people. It encourages uniformity to a system and mindset that is dysfunctional.



[edit on 2-12-2008 by ghaleon12]

reply to post by ghaleon12


well feeling hungry for food is natural. unfortunately these days hungry for knowledge takes a back seat to movies, music, friends, myspace and other stupid things.

the messed up part is those kids that don't care about education end up getting praise from the teacher because they manged to copy homework from the one kid who did it or kiss enough ass to pass.

i found that wrong and completely ruins the point of learning.

But don't people make money doing movies and music? Would be sort of strange going into those areas career-wise and avoiding those areas. And since when are things that people do for fun "stupid"? I find it really strange how people put education on such a high pedestal and demean what people do for fun. That is all people do in life, find and do what is fun it's sort of in our nature. Misunderstandings like this are why the school system isn't going to get fixed anytime soon. Instead of trying to adapt for the students' sake, we cram them into a box of what they "should" be like and what they "should" do.

Watch this....

This goes both ways. You can pretend you dont need college all that you want but in the end everyone I know from 25-35 ends up going back to school for SOMETHING. This is because they see some #hole making more money than them doing less work and the only difference is some paper. Now if you have an entrepreneurial spirit, then I say school is not the best place. I am not saying what you "learn" in school is good but it is how the system works for most.

Public Education through grades 1-12 should only teach students to master Reading, Writing and Arithmetic. After that people are capable of functioning in the world and are on their own to learn more.

If they don't master the 3 R's, we can send them to Washington DC where the rest of the idiots work.

reply to post by Bejing


lol that would explain washington. but not really solve the problem. the problem is that as more things are being added to the program the basics are being forgotten. i dont have statistics on this but i notice that in my 11th grade class people still are sounding out words. i mean thats not right.

reply to post by N. Tesla


These are not "useless" classes. You are receiving what is called a liberal education, i.e. a well-rounded one. Since the time of the Greeks, people have been educated in math, science, art, the humanities, literature, etc., in order to make them well-rounded and intelligent citizens.

Let's say you get what you want and you specifically train to be a computer programmer and receive nothing else. Well, since you missed that lesson on Nazi Germany and the rise of Hitler, you are unfortunately unable to recognize the dictator beginning to grab for power in your own back yard.

And, since you didn't have to take any English, even if you do recognize this guy as an evil dictator, your writing and speech skills are so poor no one takes you seriously when you do try and ring the alarm.

And, since you didn't take P.E. or play in any sports because it was a waste of your programming time, you're too out of shape to fight back against the tide of rising fascism popping up all around you.

So, you can see how it's important to be a well-rounded before you go off and specialize in a field. And besides, you're young, and you probably really aren't too sure about what you want to do, and since our government can't tailor education to the individual, they do the best they can and do what's best for the public (on average).

you people got it all wrong.

college is not the way to get rich

its a growing tool

you learn how to manage your time and use resources

only the smartest people become millionaires

if your just average and your getting Bs in college but your trying really hard, then you are a MORON

and the BEST you can hope for is a 130k/per year job.

But if you are super smart

If you can play the system

The College Degree opens so many doors for you

DO NOT listen to these BITTER HIGH SCHOOL drop outs OP, they are crazy and angry at the world.

You are smart OP, that's why you found ATS. Your curious! Now do not drop out of High School. You should go to college but if you don't, your probably still smart enough to make good money starting a business.

i must admit to reading mostly the original ost, and some replies. so nicholai tesla, great name. great person. i msut agree with you.
its all about paperwork.
the government wants to ahve us on file and apparently wants to know where we are smartest. at least aprt of it does. so we go on with these stupid things and blah blah blah. however it could also jsut be that your schools really suck.
teaching does begina t home my mother corrected me everytime i would make a mistake. i sued to have perfect grammar, some drama happened three years ago ( ex fiance sleeping with my brother) and i jsut dropped it all. entirely. becaus ei found out it does not matter as much a si thought it did.

so whatever you d dont coast out, it end sup biting your ass. at least not until there are enough like minded people for a revolution.
so remember kids everyone likes pie! ( find it, you will understand)
and dont be ashamed if you are smarter than your teacher, prove it, take their job. get paid. and i mean it literally. i was teaching my freshman year and the teacher did jack squat. then again ia m in ohio.
failanon out.

oh and happy trails man, i hope you can make it out happy and with as many i.q. points as you can keep.

Well, I have to say that I shared a similar experience as yours.

I wanted to get into filmmaking and was constantly going on about "Why do I need to know how to figure out the radius of blah, blah, blah." Then, after I graduated and went to what was basically a vocational school for film, I was amazed at how often I used math to calculate focal lengths on moving shots, formulas to figure out power to the lights, etc. I ended up working for a major film company and ended up having to deal with people on marketing issues and interpreting market research results which included tons of statistical analysis. As I advanced I also had to deal with budgets, financial projections, calculating pension and welfare costs, the list goes on and on. When I bought my first house the place was a disaster and I had to redo the plumbing, the heating, the electrical and I definitely pulled out some of my old text books (this was before the internet btw). Later in life I got into cooking and I could write a whole dissertation about the use of math and chemistry as it relates to making tasty eats.

Anyway, you say that you're not being taught to think outside the box, yet you are saying that you just want to learn things that are specific and applicable to your intended field which seems contradictory to me. If you want to think outside the box think of a way to get the crap you have to get done over with successfully without making yourself crazy.

My take on it is basically that problem solving is the key thing you want to be learning and you want to be able to problem solve across as many disciplines as possible. That and diplomacy. Those two things will get you pretty far in my opinion.

There is absolutely know way to know what is useless information or not. Sure, you can make a guess at what interests you at the time, but this will change to some degree or another.

As flawed as it is, I still feel that school can be utilized to do both these things if you look at it the right way.

Good luck and remember it will be over soon and there's a lot more yet to come.

Originally posted by bloodcircle
I think you missed the point there. The point wasn't that those with the fanciest cars and the most $500 gadgets are the ones better off in life. The point was that you can still be successful in life without these things. Success is not always evaluated by the amount of money you have.

Who cares is you've never seen a person with a doctorate working in macdonalds?

Dear, I think you missed my point. The OP wants to be a computer programmer yes? You can't just be GOOD with computers and expect a Computer Firm to hire you. THEY WAN'T LETTERS after your name. Just because I am knowledgeable in Law doesn't mean that a Law Firm will hire me tomorrow to start practicing Criminial Law. These people who do the hiring want letters.

I think you've misunderstood me. I am in NO way advocating that the amount of money you have equates to success. My point, is that the high-school drop outs work in McDonalds. The 35 year old Manager of McDonalds, manages it, because she CAN'T GET a better job with the amount of education she has.

I was suggesting, that the one who uses their knowledge to their advantage - to better their Education, and learns as much as they can - is going to be better off. When you have the specific requirements that Society deems necessary - more doors are open to you. What is so difficult to understand about that? It's the way Society Works, and saying # the man, will only get you so far. Trust me I get to see it every day, in my own family and it kills me. My dad, played the rebel card throughout the years he SHOULD have gone to College - talking about playing the system, and beating the system - and now he pays the price for it. And there isn't a day that goes by when he isn't thinking about it and why he isn't working in a field that he should be.

My father is a freakin' genious but you know what? He has no papers. He has no education beyond grade 12. He has no letters after his name that PROVE he knows anything. He should be teaching Advanced Physics classes in a University somewhere, he should have been on the Manhatten Project with Richard Feynman. But do you know where he was? Delivering Newspapers - It doesn't matter what he can do, it matters what he can PROVE he can do. And those letters, make all the damn difference.

I did NOT say that Money equates to happiness - Education gives you opportunities that you might never get otherwise.

- Carrot

reply to post by CA_Orot


but isnt that messed up how your father knows this much and yet still has to jump through hoops?

reply to post by N. Tesla


Yes it is. It # me off to no end, trust me. But THIS is why you have to play by the systems Rules - no matter how screwed up they might be. You can't win otherwise. I just don't want you to end up the same boat as him Tesla, thats all.

- Carrot

reply to post by N. Tesla


As a writer, I can also agree that your initial post goes far to prove exactly why Schools are a requirement. And why they need to be improved and adapted to meet modern demands.

I am all for alternative education, but only when that education is valuable.

Has anyone read Anastasia, in the Ringing Cedars series?

Despite the clear drug-induced craziness in much of it, there are actually some intelligent arguments for altering education at least in the first few years of a child's development.
It has been proven that children learn more effectively once they are given the tools to appreciate learning and development, and I think this is one of the fundamental areas we completely miss.

I would recommend anyone to read at least the first book in the Ringing Cedars series, especially the aspects of child rearing and education. If you can ignore the confusion and contradictions with relation to religion, sex and "nature", and cope with some of the outright incredibility of it, the book can be quite enlightening.

reply to post by CA_Orot


yes but then why do you so readily accept that nothing can be done. a smart person doesnt need a degree to tell him that.

reply to post by N. Tesla


Because, saying # the system does one thing. It liberates YOU temporarily from being a slave to it...until you realize you HAVE to play the game by the rules.

Tesla, I'm going to school to be a Psychologist... the fact that I'm great at helping people out with problems - doesn't mean I'm going to get there without a degree in Psych. For what I want to do - I NEED the qualificiations.

Society has set these rules and standards that we have to meet - Do you have any ideas on how to change it?

- Carrot

I have to agree with OP School is a waist of time in this day and age. There is nothing I can not teach myself by using the internet. School is nothing more than a way for the government to program children to obey and be a good consumer.

Peace
Trustnobody

Originally posted by trustnobody
I have to agree with OP School is a waist of time in this day and age. There is nothing I can not teach myself by using the internet. School is nothing more than a way for the government to program children to obey and be a good consumer.

Peace
Trustnobody

this is another great example. the internet. i could use the internet to fill in whatever gaps in information i have. out of the last 11 years i have probably learned most of my info from the net.

i am not exaggerating. i use the internet whenever a thought pops into my head. thats how i found ATS and thats why i know more history then most of my teachers.

reply to post by N. Tesla


I attend high school as a junior. I do think that our school systems could be more educational, though we still need them. It also depends on where you live. It's common for schools in separate areas to be better or worse academically.

Look at it this way. You must adapt.

Money is required for about everything. A job is usually required for obtaining money legally. A job usually requires a college degree. A college degree requires college. College requires a high school diploma. So get high school over with so you can step over these stones and make some money eventually.

As #ty of a system that it is, it's still what it is. Learn to adapt.