The Flip Side to Greer

Originally posted by jritzmann
Nope. Thats my response to the constant changing of the goalposts when someone doesnt want to address the facts.

What is this "changing of goalposts"?

Let's go to detective school here for a minute, jritzmann.

You know that concept of "Six Degrees of Separation"? Loder, Bearden, Bedini, radiant energy or vacuum energy, overunity motors, the new energy movement, Stan Meyer, HHO gas, Stirling Allen, PESWiki - these are all things that are related to Steven Greer, things that he's been involved in, people he knows, people he's worked with.....

You cannot possibly have a complete perspective of Greer without examining his personal network and all the other things he's been involved in.

You are staying fixated on these claims made at this one lecture, and missing a lot of other important stuff.

Steven Greer has made some dumb mistakes, certainly, BUT, he has also had some great successes, AND knows a lot of important people. That is what you are not getting. LOOK at what's happening with alternative energy....

I think the problem was that he expected way too much after the first conference "aka disclosure project", media was like so so, people (yes you folks) didnt push this stuff further to media or protest or osmething, he expected something like that, people didnt care actually (the majority) so at end the conference was just that, another press conference like millions each and everyday and i think thats why he has ended now on this stuff.

Originally posted by GoldenAge
You are staying fixated on these claims made at this one lecture

Because those lay a great deal of just how far someone is willing to B.S. to get what and where he wants. To that end, those comments are my benchmark to consider anything else that comes out of his mouth.

reply to post by jritzmann


Fine, stay stuck in the past then, while others like me do the good detective work and investigate what's going on right now and what the technologies of the future will be....

reply to post by GoldenAge


LOL...ok then. Whats your name again so I can keep a lookout?

reply to post by jritzmann


Mud.

Nice change of subject, jritzmann. It seems like that's all you can do in this thread.

reply to post by GoldenAge


GoldenAge,

You appear to be floundering in a whirlpool of denial. To suggest Greer's questionable exploits are in the past is umm... shoddy detective work!

BS Merchant Greer is still hard at it today. He's worn out his welcome in all the serious UFOlogical circles so he's simply moved onto a different crowd... the free energy seekers.

This is how con men work my friend. When they slip up in one place, they simply move onto another to harvest a new bag of victims. If people are going to give you their hard earned money, no questions asked, tell me where the incentive is for Greer to stop doing what he does? It's easy money mate!

If Greer was transparent and didn't make such bold claims without providing verification, he wouldn't be inviting such skepticism. That leaves us to assume that the reason he doesn't back himself up is because he can't... none of it is true.

Hell, I'll tell you what you want to hear and make hollow promises for a small donation! Do you want my Paypal details? I can be trusted.. just ask me!

IRM

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
If Greer was transparent and didn't make such bold claims without providing verification, he wouldn't be inviting such skepticism. That leaves us to assume that the reason he doesn't back himself up is because he can't... none of it is true.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Have you watched any of the evidence DVDs? I have....

Have you talked to people who actually know Greer? I have....

Shoddy detective work? I don't think so.

It seems your entire argument is that we should just stop investigating Greer's work. Why? I find the new energy movement quite fascinating actually

Originally posted by GoldenAge
Nice change of subject, jritzmann. It seems like that's all you can do in this thread.

A little projection there - I've been asking the same question since the thread started. The way you've bounced all around that question is pretty plain to see.

Anyway...
It's really easy to call people out with weak arguments and double speak when you're completely anonymous. Change the username and you're a fresh face. I don't have that luxury because I've always used my real name...because in this field you need to be accountable for what you say and do.

Accountability. Something that you don't need to have in your completely anonymous postings...and something Greer never seems to be held to by his "fans" such as yourself - which luckily seem to be fewer these days.

Steven Greer shouldn't even be an issue anymore. He is a hoaxer, a fraud, a liar and a slithering sensationalist.

CASE CLOSED

Originally posted by jritzmann
A little projection there - I've been asking the same question since the thread started. The way you've bounced all around that question is pretty plain to see.

How's that evidence DVD, jritzmann? Anything interesting on it? You mean no one's even watched it, it's just sitting there collecting dust...?

Anyway...
It's really easy to call people out with weak arguments and double speak when you're completely anonymous.

"weak" arguments?

Bearden is connected to Greer. Bedini is connected to Greer.

Show me one good reason, one strong argument, why people like Bearden and Bedini shouldn't be investigated. Since they are in Greer's personal network.

Show me one good reason why evidence DVDs shouldn't be watched, they should just be left there to collect dust.

You can't?

Originally posted by GoldenAge
Bearden is connected to Greer. Bedini is connected to Greer.

Show me one good reason, one strong argument, why people like Bearden and Bedini shouldn't be investigated. Since they are in Greer's personal network.

Did I once bring them up? Did I ever say not to investigate what they claim? No. However, I'll certainly not take Greer's word for what they are doing.

I don't give 2 shakes about Greer's latest "project"; his prior track record of wild claims should tell everyone to stay the hell away...unfortunately, as with the DP, he'll probably get some credible people involved and summarily tarnish the whole thing single-handed with more outlandish and ridiculous claims (and cause those credible people to distance themselves).

Originally posted by GoldenAge
Show me one good reason why evidence DVDs shouldn't be watched, they should just be left there to collect dust.

You can't?

For the umpteenth time, if I had them, I'd watch then. However as I've said, I've seen plenty of CSETI footage over the years and none of it particularly interesting. Certainly no structured unknown craft, a few hundred feet away. If someone wants to get it to me, I'll be glad to go thru it.

Not ONE thin dime is coming out of me to buy it.

Again young man, it's about accountability. If Greer had such unbelievable footage as claimed, at least a portion of it would be widely available on the net. Instead, it's NDAs and usage rights, along with claims of major sightings being related to Greer activity.

Originally posted by jritzmann
For the umpteenth time, if I had them, I'd watch then.

Have you considered, just asking for a copy of it?

However as I've said, I've seen plenty of CSETI footage over the years and none of it particularly interesting. Certainly no structured unknown craft, a few hundred feet away.

I've seen footage too, jritzmann. And it was quite interesting actually. Of course there are those who will say "big deal, that's not proof of aliens, it's just some lights in the sky". But the footage does match with the witness accounts of what happened.

If someone wants to get it to me, I'll be glad to go thru it.

Why not just ask Johnny Anonymous for a copy of it? Must I do that for you too?

Not ONE thin dime is coming out of me to buy it.

You don't have to spend a dime! I told you, ATS already has this DVD. Or they should - James Gilliland specifically mentioned giving it to Johnny Anonymous. Check the ATS Mix audio.

If Greer had such unbelievable footage as claimed, at least a portion of it would be widely available on the net. Instead, it's NDAs and usage rights, along with claims of major sightings being related to Greer activity.

I don't claim to understand Greer's reasoning for being so secretive with the footage - especially when there are folks like James Gilliland who have their footage all over Youtube.

But I know that CSETI do have at least some footage - because I've seen it.

I highly doubt that they "never fail to make contact" as he often boasts, but I know that they have had some notable successes.

What you also don't understand is that Greer is very active on the political and technology fronts. We don't necessarily see it, because it's social networking that's being done behind the scenes, but it's there. Talk to people like Bearden and you'll find out!

I am open on this one...

I think Greer has done a great job in getting credible data and people together, and attempting to take the ufo and alien issue out of the "nutcase" public view of the issue to one which can be sensibly and seriously looked at.
He is either one of the world’s best con-men ever, or he has been on track with the support of so many credible people - that is what made him different along with his open invitation to congress to scrutinise everything openly. He laid everything on the table.

However something has CHANGED, and I do not understand why....

a) Information used to be free and open and has gone very secretive
b) Too much talk of money -- that is always a worry once money comes into something like this....

A few thoughts as to what may have changed

1 - Disclosure is old news - no-one has listened, so he is having to carry on regardless and become less open about it because of lack of interest

2 - he could have found out something(s) which have upset some of his original views and aims - and frightened of the reaction of people - both public and governmental , and needs more time/data or proof before coming out with it – that I could understand and I expect him to get some “surprises” he did not like

3 - he could be "being got at" by authorities or "black" organisations and is trying to protect the project and himself – also quite possible

4- there is something more to all this that we do not know - and we need to find out.... – also quite possible

Until information starts freely flowing again, and until the $$ requests go away - I remain cautious. I support what he has tried to do, and oversimplification I think is just a tool to try and get the subject into public political view without being too unacceptable to be discussed.

What I would ask of him, is to get information freely flowing again for free; sooner rather than later, else his credibility will be heavily damaged (whatever is true or not).

Donating to support someone freely getting and distributing information is one thing, pssst.... "pay us some money and I will tell you a secret" is another !

Originally posted by GoldenAge
I've seen footage too, jritzmann. And it was quite interesting actually. Of course there are those who will say "big deal, that's not proof of aliens, it's just some lights in the sky". But the footage does match with the witness accounts of what happened.

I've seen enough lights in the sky pieces from CSETI...I highly doubt there's anything new. I'm referring to structured craft as Greer has claims SO many times, both on the net, and on the old Larry King show many years ago. Lights in the sky videos don't do a thing to substantiate that. Sure, I'll drop John a line about it.

Originally posted by GoldenAge
What you also don't understand is that Greer is very active on the political and technology fronts. We don't necessarily see it, because it's social networking that's being done behind the scenes, but it's there. Talk to people like Bearden and you'll find out!

And I think based on the Paracast episode we all heard him on, he has little experience or knowledge on "technology" fronts (i.e. the Tesla comments and others).

As far as the political claims, I think the Woolsey/Peterson letter tells the true tale of that. Much like the Meier camp, what I see in Greer's case is often misrepresented and overstated.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm all for discovering and putting forth research for new energy alternatives. Would I trust any group headed by this joker to do it? Absolutely not.

Originally posted by jritzmann
Sure, I'll drop John a line about it.

Thank you, that is good to know jritzmann.

And I think based on the Paracast episode we all heard him on, he has little experience or knowledge on "technology" fronts (i.e. the Tesla comments and others).

Well all I am asking is to withhold judgment until you actually speak with people who are active on that front and who have actually worked with Steven Greer. People like Loder, Bearden, Bedini, Sterling Allan, Nora Maccoby....

We cannot possibly have a complete perspective of Dr. Steven Greer without talking to the people in his personal network that he is connected to.

Originally posted by GoldenAge
We cannot possibly have a complete perspective of Dr. Steven Greer without talking to the people in his personal network that he is connected to.

Well, I have to disagree with you there. I've been in the same room when I hear claims out of his mouth of all that I listed, plus a lot more. I don't particularly care what others say, as I've seen and heard him personally on my own more then once. Both roundabout encounters left me with a sense that he's a major league B.S.'r.

Sorry, that's just my opinion based on direct experience.

Originally posted by jritzmann
...he's a major league B.S.'r. Sorry, that's just my opinion based on direct experience.

And I came away from an even more direct experieince, insofar as we actually spoke awhile, and I disagree with you, so that appears to be where we ought to leave it. Remember...“Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


So as I understand it, you then agree with and support his claims I've mentioned in this thread.

Ok, just wanted to know where the bar is on the thread. Good enough for me. However until such proof of radical claims in made, you'll have to excuse me while I call for more accountability in a field (if you can call it that) thats sorely lacked it for many years.

Major Announcement from Dr. Steven Greer on World Puja Network