The Flip Side to Greer

No, we just have lives besides defending nonsense.

Again, and I'll say it once more: I wouldn't pay this man a thin dime to see anything. What footage I have seen out of CSETI has been nothing but satellites/common atmospheric phenomena and conventional aircraft shown thru great distance and scintillation.

How about the host of other claims in addition to "vectoring in craft" so close as to see structure (which we've never seen). How about the alien baby? How about the craft debris? The Nation using Greer as a consultant to disclosure? The claim of military robot "aliens"?

Please.

By all means sir or ma'am, feel free to pay for your "disclosure", and make sure you sign that NDA so it all still stays secret.

Originally posted by jritzmann
Again, and I'll say it once more: I wouldn't pay this man a thin dime to see anything. What footage I have seen out of CSETI has been nothing but satellites/common atmospheric phenomena and conventional aircraft shown thru great distance and scintillation.

I was referring to the DVD given to JohnnyAnonymous, sitting there collecting dust.

You don't have to pay a dime to see it, ATS already has it. No more BS excuses this time boys!

reply to post by GoldenAge


No one has gotten it to me, so there's no way for me to comment on any of that. I have seen plenty of CSETI footage, and reiterate the previous post.

So, regarding his other claims, any comment?

Originally posted by jritzmann
No one has gotten it to me, so there's no way for me to comment on any of that.

Well, why not ask JA to send you a copy?

I have seen plenty of CSETI footage, and reiterate the previous post.

Somehow I doubt that, considering that I had to pay a bit of $ to see the footage I've seen.

So, regarding his other claims, any comment?

Well, I notice no one ever talks about his work with SEAS/AERO/Orion Project. You know, going around finding the scientists and inventors that have something real and providing them security and network support and funding and all that. No one ever talks about whether Bearden and Bedini really have overunity devices or not. No one ever talks about whether Greer is really obtaining access to Stan Meyer's water car, stuff like that.

All things that are kind of important to get to the truth about, wouldn't you say?

But why be good detectives when we can just fling excrement at them all instead?

Originally posted by GoldenAge
Somehow I doubt that, considering that I had to pay a bit of $ to see the footage I've seen.

You can believe what you want. When you're in the field for 2 decades you tend to get footage most of the public does not.

Originally posted by GoldenAge
Well, I notice no one ever talks about his work with SEAS/AERO/Orion Project. You know, going around finding the scientists and inventors that have something real and providing them security and network support and funding and all that. No one ever talks about whether Bearden and Bedini really have overunity devices or not. No one ever talks about whether Greer is really obtaining access to Stan Meyer's water car, stuff like that.

All things that are kind of important to get to the truth about, wouldn't you say?

But why be good detectives when we can just fling excrement at them all instead?

Typical move of the fanboy believer, changing the goalposts.

I can continue to ask about the items I mentioned, which I and many others at X-Conference heard right from Greer's mouth, but I doubt you'll address them.

"Flinging excrement" in your eyes must be far different then the rest of us. Addressing whats true and what has no supportive basis in reality is what this is all about. If you call that flinging, that's your error.

[edit on 8-11-2008 by jritzmann]

reply to post by GoldenAge


All I know is that in the last few months Greer has been sending me and thousands of others almost daily spam e-mail soliciting "donations" and financial "support" for "energy projects" that will one day "save the world".

I've been to three events in the last year at which Greer has spoken. I typically arrive early and sit in the front row to get a good look at this mans face and body language as he speaks. In EVERY case, regardless of the "topic", Greer makes exhaustive appeals for money, more money, and ever more money. He's not at all subtle or cavalier about it.

Attend one of his 'love-ins' in the mountains - prepare to shell out nearly $1,000 in 'participant' and "guest fees". That is, of course, before your own travel expenses, and there are plenty of Greer books and stuff to buy while you're waiting for the 'visitors' to show up (which, as far as we can tell has never really happened in an unambiguous, definitive way - partly because you sign your life (and camera) away at the time you shell out your bucks to hold hands in the forest.

So, what was asked (or stated) regarding a "Flip Side to Greer". In my opinion, the issues is that Greer does indeed do plenty of flipping - and flopping - as he tries to maintain an evangelical bent to the subject matter, now segueing to alternative 'energy' sources, but still always begging for money, getting plenty, but providing nothing substantive in return.

You see, the problem with Greer, is that he seems to be forever declaring imminent breakthroughs and earth-shattering revelations that are almost at hand - if he just had a few more thousand from you and me to make it happen. So we wait in yearning anticipation, only instead of producing landing space visitors or economical cars running on water, we are presented with yet another request for more funding. This process is repeated ad nausea, at one time about once per quarter, then monthly, weekly, and now almost daily, as the relentless pursuit of "donations" eclipses any substantive results or tangible return.

It is indeed unfortunate, because at one time, not so long ago, Greer seemed to be a bona fide, credible, articulate UFOogist we could finally count on to be our spokesman, our champion. He was going to disclose all to the world, force governments to reveal what they know, parade witnesses and officials through the MSM until the truth is known.

Oh he's a great speaker alright. Quite intelligent, plenty of charisma. Impressive. And like most educated, persuasive orators, has little trouble finding a steady stream of new followers to replace the disenchanted ones cast aside. I guess the adage of a 'sucker born every minute' may have some truth to it, eh?

So, does Greer have a "Flip" side? Indubitably. Has he "flipped" before? Will he "flip" again? I have no doubt. He's done the UFO thing. Now it's save-the-world energy. When the 'donations' start to trickle, there will surely be yet another "cause" for Flipper-Greer to promote. Maybe it will be nuclear Armageddon, spiritual divinity, asteroids, stargates, global hunger, AIDS cures, or, ...who knows. If it will draw a buck - he'll consider it.

I know this may sound harsh, or bitter - fatalistic even. Yet, let me be perfectly clear. I've met Greer, read his books, followed him for years. I actually respect the man highly (despite what one may conclude from reading this post). He's a sharp, witty, eloquent communicator.

I would just like to see something, ONE thing -ANYTHING that justifies the huge sums of money that he is drawing. ONE space ship. ONE water car. A little better PR wouldn't hurt either. Someone needs to tell Greer that words, just words alone, eventually will weaken his argument. He needs to put something in to his e-mails and lectures that provide a little ROI. Even the pyramid-schemers understand that concept.

Perhaps we'll simply be led through rings in our noses, one after another, until Greer has had enough and can finally settle down in that mansion on the beach and softly chuckle to himself at how he pulled it off.

Ahhhh... the gullible. It was so, so easy...

Originally posted by jritzmann
You can believe what you want. When you're in the field for 2 decades you tend to get footage most of the public does not.

Will you watch the footage of the CSETI visit to Mount Adams or not, jritzmann?

Typical move of the fanboy believer, changing the goalposts.

That's your response to a well-reasoned argument - insults?

I can continue to ask about the items I mentioned, which I and many others at X-Conference heard right from Greer's mouth, but I doubt you'll address them.

What would you like me to address?

It certainly isn't wise for him to continuously make big claims without showing evidence. It isn't wise for him to burn bridges with ATS.

Steven Greer is a human being and sometimes makes mistakes, like anyone. That is what you are not getting. Sometimes he makes bad PR mistakes, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't sometimes succeed, too.

Your whole argument that for example we shouldn't investigate people like Bearden, and Bedini, and radiant energy, all because Steven Greer makes too many wild claims - I'm just not seeing that, sorry.

Addressing whats true and what has no supportive basis in reality is what this is all about.

Yes exactly, and contacts of his, like Loder and Bearden, and their work and expertise, is part of that.

reply to post by Outrageo

I would just like to see something, ONE thing -ANYTHING that justifies the huge sums of money that he is drawing. ONE space ship. ONE water car. A little better PR wouldn't hurt either. Someone needs to tell Greer that words, just words alone, eventually will weaken his argument. He needs to put something in to his e-mails and lectures that provide a little ROI. Even the pyramid-schemers understand that concept.

Well first of all I don't think he is drawing "huge sums" of money. The Orion Project has raised about $350,000 since March - hardly a "huge sum" by any stretch of the imagination...

I agree with you though that Dr. Greer has made some serious PR mistakes. Like burning bridges with ATS, and accepting charitable donations before he has even put a proven overunity device forward.

But just because he has made many mistakes, does not mean that he hasn't also had some successes......

Let's play detective here for a minute. Greer has mentioned Tom Bearden's name many times - and at the end of "Energy From The Vacuum", Bearden gives special thanks to Greer, and even Greer's wife Emily.

There's a connection there, between Greer's family and Bearden!

And Bearden and Bedini have these "Energy From the Vacuum" videos, where they demonstrate working prototypes and stuff........

Maybe Bearden and Bedini really have something, and they are a part of the group of scientists and inventors Greer and Loder are referring to?

Sorry to keep digging like this. But there are many Questions here, questions that need answering!

reply to post by GoldenAge


There is nothing we can state to make anyone think critically of this subject. The people will believe Mr Greer, period. This is one of the major problems with ufology, and that critical thinking is thrown out the window.

After a while, some of us just cannot post, as anything said or asked will never get a straight answer.

Believe Greer and be happy.

Finally a thread that addresses the fraud known as Greer.

The only difference between Steven Greer and Blossom Goodchild is that Dr. Greer didn't make a prediction.

Or am I wrong about that too?

Has anyone actually went along for his one of his so called "expeditions"? He claims to use ultra powerful laser beams to attract the UFOs/Ets ,.. And then you get to talk to the aliens via "remote viewing" techniques which he supposedly teaches.. wouldn't be surprised if he's actually a doctor of hypnosis.

I can't believe this joke of a man is still alive in the UFO community

Originally posted by Majorion I can't believe this joke of a man is still alive in the UFO community

I went to see Greer talk about disclosure and spoke to him for a short while. The project was huge, yet didn't create much of a ripple. He came across as an entirely reasonable man on a mission. I can't comment on the CSETI stuff as I haven't checked it out myself. The Orion Project sounds reasonable as well. Tell me, what is such an effort suppposed to look like?

I hear the bitternes among some posters here, and I think it comes from a disappointment that all their questions weren't answered the way they wanted, so they turned on Greer. It's an old story...

[edit on 8-11-2008 by JohnnyCanuck]

Greer is nuts. His whole orgainization seems to be political really, a rally against space based weaponry. I have emailed the disclosure project on several occasions postulating that
1. If abduction stories are true, humanity should have some sort of space based defenses
2. if there are indeed alien civilizations, then inevitably some will be more hostile then others


to #1, i was told, that alien abductions were allegedly perpetrated by the government to make people hostile to aliens
and to #2, they replied that there is some sort of inter galactic council that controls every species in the known universe and that species arent allowed to attain interstellar flight until there peaceful and evolved beyond war and so that any aliens coming here are peaceful.

Both these explanations I find bull# and baseless, merely inventions of greer to try and reconcile the differences between mainstream UFO research and his own brand of Universal koom ba ya where nothing bad ever happens world.
That combined with the fact that all greer has eer done in the arena is hold a stylish press conference with witnesses and nothing more, and in addition to that selling merchandise, videos and books, hes making a ton of cash on his BS and the people who so willingly buy into ook line and sinker are his customer base.

Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to post by GoldenAge

 

There is nothing we can state to make anyone think critically of this subject. The people will believe Mr Greer, period. This is one of the major problems with ufology, and that critical thinking is thrown out the window.

After a while, some of us just cannot post, as anything said or asked will never get a straight answer.

Believe Greer and be happy.

Exactly what I have been saying , critical thinking has gone out the window in this arena. This is evident with all the baseless and fringe claims people buy into, the fraudsters who peddle their UFO conspiracy books and merchandise to make money, fraudsters who invent stories and then make a whole market for them, such as Whitley Streiber did with his "Communion". Until critical thinking is re introduced and the nutters and the new age alien channeling mytho nuts are purged from the UFO comunity, nothing will ever move forward.

Originally posted by NavalFC
and to #2, they replied that there is some sort of inter galactic council that controls every species in the known universe and that species arent allowed to attain interstellar flight until there peaceful and evolved beyond war and so that any aliens coming here are peaceful.

Yeah, why would all the neighbouring civilizations organize themselves into a Council? It's a terribly ineffective social structure, we never see it occurring right here on Earth.........

Originally posted by GoldenAge

Originally posted by NavalFC
and to #2, they replied that there is some sort of inter galactic council that controls every species in the known universe and that species arent allowed to attain interstellar flight until there peaceful and evolved beyond war and so that any aliens coming here are peaceful.

Yeah, why would all the neighbouring civilizations organize themselves into a Council? It's a terribly ineffective social structure, we never see it occurring right here on Earth.........

Thats not the issue. the issue is every race in the UNIVERSE? I didnt just say neighboring. I said the UNIVERSE. I dont know maybe you didnt see that word. That is te only way you could make sure a hostile race never gets interstellar flight technology.

Come on, thats plain bullcrap. I could see organizations based on localities, but the entire universe isnt ruled by one organization.


It would be impossible to regulate the technological development of every race in the entire universe. We couldnt even stop North Korea, Iran or Pakistan or who ever from working on nuclearweapons technology ON THIS PLANET, and now you expect people to believe theres a organization that controls every single civilization in the universe and keeps them from attaining interstellar flight until theyve evolved beyond war? get real. Greer is a fraud.
And the notion that the US military is responsible for alien abductions, equally fraudulent. the two goals dont coincide

Assuming for the sake of argument that alien abductions are real, and assuming there is a cover up and a campaign aganst UFO witnesses

That is, one on side the government is alledgedly smearing UFO witnesses and getting them ridiculed to shut them up etc, giving the UFO phenomenon the perception of being crazy...
then on the other hand were exepcted to believe alien abductions are a campaign to get peole to be hostile to the aliens? complete BS. People wont fear something they dont take seriously. You cant have a campaign to ridicule something while aving a campaign to make people fear it, because they dont go hand in hand, its got to be oneor the other.

and if this were the case staging a simple alien attack would do the job alot easier then forced medical examinations.

greer is a fraud. He is pushing the political issue of weapons in space and using the UFO phenomenon as his vehicle for it, while he makes money off his stuff.

GoldenAge, given your apparent passionate zeal for cult greer and your recent ATS join date, it seems like you have previously been here before under a different username. If so, who were you? You type very familiar to a particular person that's been here before. My sincere apologies if this is your first time on ATS.

Anyway, threads like this is are a waste of time. I shudder that I am posting in it now... No more replies, I promise.

Use the search function to see the many threads that have bashed the cult greer topic to death. I'm ashamed that I gave some of them so much publicity at the time. My uneducated, early ATS days... Yuck, I feel dirty... One must recognise when the horse is dead, so you don't keep on beating it.

No more replies, let the thread die.

No publicity is bad publicity for cult greer.

Let it die an annoymous death.

reply to post by GoldenAge

Was he an incredibly courageous guy
when he was asking for amnesty for all the nasty
scumbags who have threatened and tormented
witnesses and experiencers over the decades?
Basically Greer is asking that we forgive the
vermin who have kept us all in the middle ages!
Amnesty?I`d have the lot of them(those still alive)
who have perpetrated lies and wars,hanged for
their crimes against humanity!

Originally posted by tezzajw
No more replies, let the thread die.

No, I will not. Not while actual good detective work - like talking to people who actually know Greer, and watching the evidence DVDs, that sort of stuff - keeps turning up positive and interesting things......

You have shown me no reason why we shouldn't investigate the new energy movement, Bearden, Bedini, radiant energy, overunity motors..... no reason at all, tezzajw.

Originally posted by Elmer_Dinkley
Was he an incredibly courageous guy
when he was asking for amnesty for all the nasty
scumbags who have threatened and tormented
witnesses and experiencers over the decades?
Basically Greer is asking that we forgive the
vermin who have kept us all in the middle ages!

There's no way they'll ever release all that classified black-ops technology to the world unless they're offered amnesty, Elmer_Dinkley. What's more important, the technologies, or doing justice to the "scumbags"?

Originally posted by GoldenAge
That's your response to a well-reasoned argument - insults?

Nope. Thats my response to the constant changing of the goalposts when someone doesnt want to address the facts.

Originally posted by GoldenAge
What would you like me to address?

It certainly isn't wise for him to continuously make big claims without showing evidence. It isn't wise for him to burn bridges with ATS.

Steven Greer is a human being and sometimes makes mistakes, like anyone. That is what you are not getting.

Oh I get it. You won't address his insane claims and mega claims of proof.

Thats ok. If you want to bolster someone in a topic you truly care about, one who gives no accountability to his claims, marginalizes the field, and makes the subject look like a laughing stock...by all means go ahead. Just don't be surprised when people like me call you on it.