School Clams Up on 'Gay' Pledge Cards Given to Kindergartners, page 9

posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 09:05 PM

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reply to post by cognoscente

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Though I might agree in principle that outrageous behavior can be misplaced, consider we DO give certain members of society the right to act like that in public, and though these men are not pre-pubescent teenagers and we'd like them to act their age, there's nothing opprobrious inherent in such behavior, only your apprehension of it.

You might also apply such verbiage to the scene in Legally Blonde where the Reese teaches the backward and chunky fingernail stylist (Jennifer Coolidge) how to act like that similarly upsetting, since this is hardly behavior of a mature woman.

And you might also wish to condemn:
Wesley Snipes ... Noxeema Jackson
Patrick Swayze.... Vida Boheme
John Leguizamo... Chi-Chi Rodriguez
Dustin Hoffman... (Tootsie)
Terence Stamp ... Ralph / Bernadette Bassenger
Hugo Weaving ... Anthony 'Tick' Belrose / Mitzi Del Bra
Guy Pearce... ... Adam Whitely / Felicia Jollygoodfellow
Terence Stamp ... Ralph / Bernadette Bassenger
Hugh Jackman...... Broadway portrayal of the flamboyant Peter Allen
Robin Williams...... (BirdCage and Ms Doubtfire)
Jack Lemmon...... (Some like it hot)

...and a plethora of other well-respected actors who have portrayed such characters in film to great reviews. (getting paid to do it is the sole distinction)

We have to be careful which behaviors we condemn, especially harmless ones like this, because you never know, a beloved family member may be doing renditions of J. Edgar Hoover in their private times...

Such condemnations betray more about ourselves than those we'd wish to excoriate, many would agree.

Once we make 'behavior' actionable, you never know, someone might object to some behavior of yours. (the plural you)

Though I don't particularly like seeing it I wouldn't hasten to take anyone to task for engaging in what some might call 'street theater'

There's a guy in his late 40s here that dresses up like a screaming queen version of a samurai, and runs around in full regalia replete with multiple piercings. Yet he's the 'godfather' of a lot of street people whom he protects and he gives domicile and nourishment when they have nowhere else to go. One might be very uncomfortable meeting him, but then one learns there's more underneath.

Just a thought.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

fmcanarney

posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 09:16 PM

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reply to post by Leo Strauss

The 1 in 10 is a lot of cock and bull.

Were Adam and Eve so inclined?

Noah and his wife and sons?

So Prop 8 whch defines marriage as between a man and woman, is a good thing, your parents were hetero.

Follow your entire family tree into the past, and the only way you get to the beginning is to follow two people in each generation, one male and one female who has naturally intended sexual intercourse and it goes back as far as anyone could ever reach.
That is natural, so ten percent is a politically correct buzz word that means nothing.

TheRedneck

posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 09:24 PM

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reply to post by Badge01

You missed a distinction: having to pay (or at least choose) to see it.

It's one thing to be able to watch someone cross-dress, for whatever reason (usually humor). But it's quite another to have someone's antics in public suddenly appear before you. Not saying we should ban it legally necessarily (although we do have obscenity laws already which may apply), just that such actions harm those who undertake them and those who can be grouped with them in the minds of the public.

TheRedneck

Leo Strauss

posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 09:35 PM

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Originally posted by fmcanarney
reply to post by Leo Strauss

The 1 in 10 is a lot of cock and bull.

Were Adam and Eve so inclined?

Noah and his wife and sons?

So Prop 8 whch defines marriage as between a man and woman, is a good thing, your parents were hetero.

So you "believe" that dinosaurs roamed the earth 6 thousand years ago???

You "believe" Noah was able to build his ark and populate it with a male an female representatives of all species on earth????

Well you have an "active" imagination as my mother used to say!

Prop 8 will not turn you or your loved ones gay so don't fret!! You are either gay or you are not. Reading your post I would say you are afraid you or one of your loved ones is gay!

In a tolerant society you would not need to be afraid. Think about that!!

No on HATE/8!

mopusvindictus

posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 09:41 PM

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reply to post by Badge01

Hugh played an effeminate role?

If the Wolverine solo movie comes out and has a coming out of the closet sequence, I'll be sore about that and be posting threads about pc gone to far

"Hey Cyclops, Nice tights Bub"

It frighteningly seems plausible, but please leave me at least one masculine role model even if he's fictional

Snipes too?

"Blade 4 Out of the Coffin"

I am joking, but seriously...

Comics were among the first to address the Gay/Lesbian political spectrum in MSM

although some people have voiced they tend to suffer horrible fates when compared to other super heroes

NORTHSTAR
1st gay male hero to come out in the Marvel Comics Universe, thus making him their most prominent gay hero. Between February 16 and March 9, 2005, Northstar is killed in three different realities, during the most prominent of which, the X-Men’s most popular hero, Wolverine (star of the X-Men movies), impales him through the chest with his metal claws. Marvel’s most prominent gay hero is later resurrected as a murderous zombie assassin.

ELECTRO
This longtime Spiderman nemesis recently discovered his predilection for homosexuality as a result of a lengthy stint in prison. Sought out a shape-changing prostitute to satisfy his new desires.

ICE
Lesbian member of DC’s superheroes Justice League International. Murdered. Last seen by her teammates in Hell.

MOONDRAGON
Depowered and maimed lesbian hero. Fitted with a power-inhibiting headband as punishment. Kidnapped and had her ear ripped off by a villain who makes her girlfriend (the new Captain Marvel) deliver the body part to her father as a ransom note. (Marvel’s “Annhiliation” series, summer 2006).

THE HULK’S NEAR-RAPE
Then Marvel’s Editor-In-Chief Jim Shooter writes a story depicting Bruce Banner’s near-rape at the hands of predatory gay men in the shower of a YMCA. In issue #23 of “The Incredible Hulk,” (1980) Banner escapes and cries, “God, what were they going to do to me! Oh my god…how can anyone? It, it seemed like a nightmare when it was happening, but, Lord, now…It was real!! They were really going to….! Then Banner transforms into The Hulk.

It seems even in comics Homosexuals deal with a bit of grief!

for full list of Gay super hero's and villains and their horrible fates

Gay with a reason to wear tights

I would also Add though

Wonder Woman has run the Gamut of either Female Supremacist to Full on Lesbian and... I find the concept of a woman who can tie me up and make me tell the truth both simultaneously very exciting and frightening

and With that it can be said that not all homosexual portrayals have ended badly for the character

But It does seem a bit much for comics given that children read them too...

an example

There is a scene in Civil War #5

where Jester and Jack O lantern track down Spidey through the sewers, manage to subdue him while calling him "honey" and suggest they have "a little fun" with him before they are through

They Don't, a shield agent prevents them from doing so but the implied Homosexual Rape imho was a bit much for a children comics

and it all begs the question where do politics and opinions end and where is this all becoming way too graphic and ridiculous

But the Homosexuality issue, is alive and well in Comic books

(Gosh I know allot about Comics)

Badge01

posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 09:56 PM

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reply to post by mopusvindictus

Yeah, funny story. When he came on stage for, I think he second act, a member of the audience in the theater on Broadway obviously familiar with his other roles stood up and cried out "Wolverine! NO-o--o--o--o-!"

Hugh quipped:

"Actually I've done another film, Van Helsing, in between X Men and starting on this," Jackman said. "That guy is pretty surly as well. So it's great to just melt into Peter Allen's effervescence. He had all this positive energy. And it's a relief to do a project in America where I don't have to put on an accent."

Though one might not realize it, I get the feeling a lot of actors are either gay or have such leanings having gone through the system of drama club and other venues. Of course quite a few came into the acting business in other ways, so their influence here would be different.

I can easily see Robin Williams just playing his 'gay' as effervescent and kooky, much like a Jonathan Winters character (Maude Frickert); Winters is credited as being a big role model for Robin, btw.

Having defended the lifestyle sufficiently I'll now take a liberty to poke fun:

[edit on 11/2/2008 by Badge01]

mopusvindictus

posted on Nov, 2 2008 @ 10:08 PM

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reply to post by Badge01

Yeah, correct entirely I went to HS in NY and attended the performing arts school of Fame... Fame, the old tv series (sister school actually)

But yeah HS was at least 1/3 - 50% Homosexual

So knowing the mannerisms or having the empathy isn't going to be much of a stretch for most actors

and I would add for any that worry that their kids might turn Gay

There simply could not be a better environment for a Straight young man, then attending a school where most of the guys are Gay and by proxy most of the Girls are very lonely

I am quite sure, my heterosexual endeavors were highly enhanced by the lack of a Foot ball team and the landscape that would surely have left a creative intellectual fellow like myself, highly disenfranchised in the competition for girlfriends

WishForWings

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 12:01 AM

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This is crap, you shouldn't teach people to like/ respect gays.
Or anyone for that matter, let them make their own decisions.
Especially kids, if I had kids who had a teacher like this I'd explode.

Teaching kids to support gays is the same as teaching them to hate them.
Bias Bias Bias

maus80

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 12:04 AM

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The idea that kids this age don't know what any of this means is BUNK. My four year old niece told me that her six year old brother keeps telling her that "Dora is gay", and it upsets her. I had a stern talk with her brother, and asked him to find a better way of expressing what he likes/dislikes.

Kids explore slang and slurs at a young age. Asking them to examine the weight of their words is not something they can't understand of appreciate.

xmotex

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 12:10 AM

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Originally posted by wisefoolishness
reply to post by Leo Strauss

But is it acceptable in your opinion to teach any form of sexuality to kindergartners? That's the problem I have with this.

But they're not teaching diddlysquat about "sexuality"

They're teaching them not to use certain slurs...

TruthTellist

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 12:41 AM

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reply to post by xmotex

Nope.

They're TELLING them not to use certain slurs... and thus inadvertently teaching them the most effective, time tested slurs and insults - which you know they will then use at recess.

I think children should be kept in the dark and left ignorant especially concerning anal debauchery - even insults we have for those who engage in this filthy act should not be uttered around young children.

Jezus

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 12:44 AM

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Originally posted by WishForWings
This is crap, you shouldn't teach people to like/ respect gays.
Or anyone for that matter, let them make their own decisions.
Especially kids, if I had kids who had a teacher like this I'd explode.

Teaching kids to support gays is the same as teaching them to hate them.
Bias Bias Bias

I think it is appropriate to teach children not to judge others based on their inherent characteristics.

msnevil

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 01:08 AM

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I remember being 6 years old, and laughing at a Disney movie about Jack and the bean stock. Where the "Harp?" sang something like the whole world was "Gay".

I knew what "gay" meant, but I didn"t know it meant "happy" when the cartoon was made. Of course, i grew up on a farm. And some male animals liked to hump other male animals. And we as kids, thought this was the funniest thing. And of course, we never could understand why we were shushed away from what we just witnessed.

cognoscente

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 01:22 AM

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reply to post by Leo Strauss

Everyone votes for acknowledgment and respect, but that's not the purpose of Proposition 8.

Armin

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 05:37 AM

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The way I feel about this subject is that the homosexual's are trying to make their own law of interest to protect them from abuse of name calling or hate crimes. That's not God's law which is protected, and not some law of interest. They think being called names and such is a bad thing? Then how bad is it to go against God's law that is protected and his creation?

fmcanarney

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 05:52 AM

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reply to post by Leo Strauss

Tell me and get me the stats on the number of XXY people, and then try to use that to explain the high level of HGBLT population.

XXY males (medical condition): A rare chromosomal genetic syndrome where the person has XXY chromosomes instead of XY or XX. The person is usually male because of the Y chromosome, but has lower levels of testosterone and may have some female-like features.

So there it is in black and white:
A syndrome, medical condition, diagnosis, disorder, illness, malady. DIAGNOSABLE.
And treatable.

A rare medical condition does not equate to the percentage of GBLTH population, so there must be some other cause or reason or explaination.

Rory27

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 06:21 AM

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reply to post by wisefoolishness

But it might be a good age to stop kids from saying things they don't even know there saying :-?...

Skyfloating

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 06:25 AM

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Sorry for the disconsenting opinion but I think this measure will familiarize the children with hate-speech in the first place.

At that age you have no idea what hate-speech is...neither do you care...neither do you practice hate-speech...

...so introducing the concept of hate-speech this early will make it a lifelong issue of ambivalence.

Way, way, way too early.

fmcanarney

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 06:36 AM

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The 10% figure comes from a comment in the Kinsey report that was misquoted by homophiles. Even Kinsey (on the same page of the report) states that 4% of white males in the US are exclusively homosexual after adolescence.

From all real estimates it is 2 or 3 percent. Many gay activist groups want people to believe it is one in 10 people, but it is not nearly that high unless 75% of the gay population is still hiding in the closet.

Last night my sister said she reckoned it was as much as 50% of the people in the world, I told her she was nuts and it was probably more like 2%... would welcome other people's thoughts and/or concrete knowledge.

gormly

posted on Nov, 3 2008 @ 07:38 AM

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reply to post by Karlhungis

I think the problem (that you clearly demonstrate) is that "gays" get special treatment. People who are fat, ugly, short, tall, or otherwise special, do not get cards and sing along songs until much later in life and it is usually dealt with on an incident by incident basis.

The problem here is it is:

1. Kindergarten
2. Gay/Lesbian only

The problem with #1 is that it is too young for this kind of talk, not only will they probably not understand any explaination, but any explaination may do more harm that good.

The problem with #2 is that is is exclusive.
If it were an "everyone is the same/don't make fun of anyone" type of card... no one would have a problem wit it.

Pledging to not make fun of anyone, learning we all have differences and to accpet them INCLUDES gay/lesbian but what this does is single that group out for special recognition.

I for one am tired of the special recognition gay and lesibians get constantly. We do not need to know what your sexual preference is, we honestly don't. Lets just make sure everyone is treated fairly and leave it at that.

I don't mean this is an acuusatory way but you are a perfect example of how to go about what you want in the wrong way. You are clearly in favor of Gay/Lesbian introduction at an early age.

Thats OK, but this early and this exclusive is the problem.
I have yet to realy hear an honest viewpoint from someone "gay" who abvocates equal treatment for ALL rather than a focus on "gay".