A question for our European and Aussie friends...Do you regret giving up your right to own firearms?

reply to post by one_small_step





I wouldnt call them a way of life. More or less a necessary tool for basic survival.


There is a significant difference between being an intelligent, responsible, safety conscious tax paying upstanding citizen who happens to own firearms versus being a half cocked lunatic who would use the power of a gun for crime or intimidation.

Aside from hunting use and home defense I mainly keep a weapon handy these days in the event that I will need one for personal protection, it wouldnt be the first time that I have needed one, mainly through no fault or choice of my own.

My small-medium size city has over the past year blossomed into a crime infested dump, complete with roaming gangs of Crips and MS-13 sects popping up all over the place. The police here are outbumbered and outgunned.

One of my best friends was stabbed and murdered this past summer by an illegal alien. Two weeks ago my other friends 14 year old daughter was stabbed in the face with a pencil by an illegal who was a member of a gang. Two other MS members were shot and killed in a crowded restaurant in broad daylight, less than a mile from where I work.

I moved away from a big city a couple of years ago to escape from this sort of thing but it is everywhere now. And with the economy going down the tubes things are getting worse by the week.

Im not carrying a gun because it is the cool Hollywood thing to do, I carry a gun because I never know when I will need it to save my own life.

If I were living in Canada or some equally magical and safe land then maybe I would reconsider, but for now Im going with what I know.

Blackop's a sensitive subject you have raised.

Im Australian and i agree to the right to bare arms. Simply because i have researched long and hard and listened to both sides.

The media has played it very good in Australia to get people to give up arms. What people here only know is guns are bad that is all there is too it. They dont understand about protecting your family and assets.

I believe the Port Arthur massacre was set up. My friend is a top shooter and he said only a professional could have killed people in perfect alignment like that, that not even he thinks he can do it that good.

There has been more gun shooting and guns on the blackmarket here in Australia since right to bare arms have been taken away. And who most likely operates the black market? There have been more gun shootings on the news lately then there ever was when we had a right to bare arms. When you try to deprive thugs of sometthing they only become more agressive. Australia has the highest rate of theft in the world.

There was almost a shooting the other day here on the news. It will be evidently hard to ever get rid of guns so people who think they are safe are really living in a fantasy world.

ive never understood the american fascination for guns, you seem to think just because someone doesnt own a gun it makes then defenceless which is incorrect anything can be used as a weapon pen, pencil, a combination of chemicals and you can create your own projectiles, hell even gunpowder is easy to make. and here in Oz we havent given up our right to own guns we have just made it harder for people to own them, if you want a gun generally you can have one IF you have a good reason for owning one, and dont have a criminal record.

fact is we dont need guns down here to defend ourselves we use our ingenuity and we can create far worse things than guns when we are mad

Demandred think clearly boy. How you going to use a pen or pencil when someone is holding a gun to your head. If you have a knife then you better be a good thrower before the bullet gets you first.

It is not hard to obtain guns in Australia. Gangs get it in all the time from Melbourne. Anyone can go up to a gang member and ask to buy one off them. Stop being delusional.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by meadowfairy]

It must be the texans that give gun owners in america a bad name. Seems to me your not a real man unless you pack a gun in texas. The more I read statements by texans the more they seem like the idiots next door. They got the mentallity of shoot first ask questions later. I made the statement earlier that americans are cowards with the need to feel like a real cinfident person but only if they have their guns. I take it back because after thinking about it, I realize that all the statements that brought me to my earlier conclusions were all made by texans. The people that would most likely attempt to take guns forcibally from gun owners are proffesionally trained people..ie military, and dobt very much that the rednecks of texas would stand a chance. Put up a fight...YEs...win...NO.

You will get those who are obsessive with guns which wrecks it for everyone else who only want to defend themselves.
Weapons have and always will be used for survival. Since the caveman spear times we now have guns for hunting which is a shame, because weapons have been depicted throughout history.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by meadowfairy]

reply to post by meadowfairy


i beg to differ

The massacre was the 13th mass shooting in Australia in 15 years. Mass shootings had killed 104 victims and wounded another 52 since 1981, according to the University of Sydney report published Thursday in the journal Injury Prevention.

The federal government responded to the Port Arthur massacre by funding a gun buyback scheme. More than 700,000 guns were surrendered by Australia's adult population of 12 million.

The study found the buyback coincided with an end to mass shootings and dramatic decreases in shooting deaths in Australia.

"The Australian example provides evidence that removing large numbers of firearms from a community can be associated with a sudden and ongoing decline in mass shootings and accelerated declines in total firearms-related deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides," the report concluded.

last gun related death that i have heard of in australia was a bikie being shot last one before then i couldnt even tell you, im sure there were more but gun related deaths in Australia are so rare you tend to take notice when they do happen.

Objectives: To examine trends in rates of firearm related deaths in Victoria, Australia, over 22 years in the context of legislative reform and describe and investigate impact measures to explain trends.

Design: Mortality data were extracted from vital statistics for 1979–2000. Data on firearm related deaths that were unintentional deaths, assaults, suicides, and of undetermined intent were analyzed. Rates were calculated with population data derived from estimates by the Australian Bureau of Statistics. A quasi-experimental design that used a Poisson regression model was adopted to compare relative rates of firearm related deaths for Victoria and the rest of Australia over three critical periods of legislative reform. The Wilcoxon signed ranks test was used to assess changes in the types of firearm related deaths before and after 1998.

Results: In Victoria, two periods of legislative reform related to firearms followed mass shooting events in 1988 and 1996. A national firearm amnesty and buyback scheme followed the latter. Victorian and Australian rates of firearm related deaths before reforms (1979–86) were steady. After initial Victorian reforms, a significant downward trend was seen for numbers of all firearm related deaths between 1988 and 1995 (17.3% in Victoria compared with the rest of Australia, p

Originally posted by meadowfairy
Demandred think clearly boy. How you going to use a pen or pencil when someone is holding a gun to your head. If you have a knife then you better be a good thrower before the bullet gets you first.

It is not hard to obtain guns in Australia. Gangs get it in all the time from Melbourne. Anyone can go up to a gang member and ask to buy one off them. Stop being delusional.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by meadowfairy]

ahh but if they dont have a gun there is little point to worry, gangs kill other gangs with guns and bikies kill other bikies if guns were freely avaliable the deaths would be more indiscriminate yo would have US style masacress daily gun deaths and not just one 4,5 -10 a day

Demandred i think you only take notice when they do show it on tv. How many have not been shown?
Actually you obviously dont live in Sydney because there is a shooting here nearly every month. Drug war shootings at clubs.

And in another 15 years there will most likely be another mass shooting. What makes you think a crazy cant obtain a gun to do a mass shooting.

There a re drive by shootings and lets not mention melbourne.

The media here dont want to show the real picture.

Be weary not to believe all statistics as statisitcs can lie and are usually pad for by those who support it.

www.worldnetdaily.com...

News in Australia is heavily censored.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by meadowfairy]

If someone wants to kill, or commit an armed criminal offense, they are going to do it whether guns are legal or not. If they can't use a gun they will use some other form of weapon.

I know many people here in Australia (mind you, I live in rural areas) who own guns for hunting, and because farmers need guns for numerous reasons.

I believe that an important factor in Australia having a lot lower rate of anti-social behavior of violent crimes committed with firearms is because obtaining a firearm is a lot more difficult in Australia than in the USA. You can't just walk down to the local mall, fill out some paper work and buy a gun.

But, as I said above, if someone is going to commit an armed criminal offense, they will do it with or without a gun.

Remember, guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people!

Originally posted by meadowfairy

Actually you obviously dont live in Sydney because there is a shooting here nearly every month. Drug war shootings at clubs.


[edit on 28-10-2008 by meadowfairy]

Compared to america..that's pretty tame. They have a shooting in thier cities on a daily basis.

I don't have enough time to read through this entire thread, but I'm 4 pages deep and thought I'd post my response to the original thread (before getting very side-tracked again with the yard apes).

I was born in Australia, and have lived between NZ and Oz my entire 30 years. I lived in the South Island of NZ, where the police do not wear guns. That's right, the regular ol' police don't wear them at all. If there is an armed offender crime, then the Armed Defenders Squad is called in response. This is a specialised unit.
In Australia I have rarely seen Police wearing holsters, or guns of any description - though I haven't had occasion to wander into the Central Business District of any of the major cities. I am told they do wear them there.

The instances of crimes involving guns here is limited. Most of the reported violent crimes I've read about involving murder, or violent crime, are usually "beaten to death" types. If there is a shooting in NZ it makes the national news. It makes fairly big waves in Australia too.

I can speak for most of the people I know in this case, when offering my two cents. We do not 'regret giving up' our right to bear arms. We do not ever even think about it. This said, I can tell you I was a member of a small bore rifle club for several years, so I'm not unfamiliar with how to shoot a weapon. I have been hunting with a .22, and do know that you can join a gun club to learn to shoot a handgun. It's just never been a priority for most people.

Hunting is common enough in both countries, although the further away from urban sprawl you get, the more common it is. I know enough people who go rabbit hunting, mainly for population controls. Many who go wild pig hunting, for food and sport.

As for how this quarter views America? Well I have briefly visited America many years ago, and I must say the paranoia on crime escalates considerably when you are there. I have read many different replies in this thread about 2nd admendment, and the right to keep your government in check. Truly in my own opinion, if these rights to bear your arms keeps your government in check? It would tend to support the notion that nothing your government has ever done since it's conception, has been truly, grossly unjust enough for the masses to rise up with it's powerful threat of arms and invoke a rebellion.

My personal opinion in this matter, is that this "threat" of arms, is just a way of ensure a population at war with itself. What better control is there?

Peace friends - just my opinion.

Riggs who does those shootings upstanding citizens or thugs?

There is and always will be thugs as there will be guns, police force cant survive without them. Laws cant be made without them.

We ar etlkaing baout right to bare arms for protection not for killing. Which is why im saying criminals will always be criminals but upstanding citizens what about them, when they face a gun?

Please dont foget we are a population of 20 million against their 300 million.
Thugs think they uphold the law but what they are really doing is helping to indirectly make more laws. Thats why the black market means so much to the gov and allowed to operate even though they pretend to work against them.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by meadowfairy]

[edit on 28-10-2008 by meadowfairy]

As far as I know in Italy (my country) you can own an handgun after you passed some medical/psyco test and others burocracy steps. It is mainly allowed only to keep the weapon at home, to be allowed to carry it outside needs extra permissions (mainly if you can prove that you really need to carry one for your personal conditions, e.g. your job). SO at the end, if you really want you can have a firearm at home.

Said that, for me it is right to have the possibility of owning a weapon for personal safety at home but to have that possibilty without any control or permission is dangerous and must be limited.

Furthermore with all these hot blooded Italians it is better like this!!

I agree that guns should not be sold in shops as easily as it is to get liqour but go through an assessment like Italy says.

Some people just find it difficult to seperate killing and right to bare arms for safety.



[edit on 28-10-2008 by meadowfairy]

straight up from australia - no, and im glad its hard to obtain a gun.


in times of economic crisis, i dont want the guy who just lost his house to go ape and shoot everyone on the street.

faaip lol lets hope they just keep us alive and steal the food

Please understand...in most states here in the US you have to pass a state police background check in order to purchase all handguns and most rifles as well.

Here in NC you have to get a permit directly from the police department in order to purchase a hand gun. Its not like anyone can just walyz in and buy a gun. You cant possess a firearm if you have a felony conviction on your record.

And as far as I know Wal Mart no longer sells firearms. To order any high powered or assult style weapons they must first be legal in your state (many are illegal) and you must order the weapon through a licensed FFL dealer.

Here in Australia, people still get shot all the time.
The only difference is.. the people that HAVE guns are generally bad people.
Or just didn't give them up a while ago.

You can still have a gun here though, so long as you have the appropriate licenses and are a member of a gun club.


I do like the thought of everyone not having guns, I mean.. there's some really stupid mentally insane people out there who would shoot you because you're supposedly a reptile or something.

It's good, it's bad.
Either way I don't see a problem with it.
But if one person has one, everyone needs to have one.