A question for our European and Aussie friends...Do you regret giving up your right to own firearms?

reply to post by BlackOps719


Far as i know Aussies have never had the right to bear arms.

We can own rifles & shotguns, but handguns, Semi-Auto are a big no-no in AU.

Semi's were banned 20 years ago because too many nutters were going on the rampage.

Spose if we "civillians", ever have to, we could dig some up in a hurry though..lol

Some of Our rual Millitary stockpiles are grossly underguarded...hehehe

Blackops thanks for correcting this.

What Australians know of Americans is only what they see on tv and on movies and automatically assume everything there is bad.


We have been indoctrinated not to look at things from all angles. 20-30 years ago Australians were smart now the media are dumbing them down.

Originally posted by meadowfairy

We have been indoctrinated not to look at things from all angles. 20-30 years ago Australians were smart now the media are dumbing them down.

Well....looks like our countries have something in common then.


If it wasnt for the overwhelming amount of lunatics and idiots running around in society we wouldnt even have a need to own guns for defense.

Unfortunately stupid people and violent and /or evil people will never go away. They will always be around to screw things up for the rest of us.

Originally posted by just_julie
If someone wants to kill, or commit an armed criminal offense, they are going to do it whether guns are legal or not. If they can't use a gun they will use some other form of weapon.

I know many people here in Australia (mind you, I live in rural areas) who own guns for hunting, and because farmers need guns for numerous reasons.

I believe that an important factor in Australia having a lot lower rate of anti-social behavior of violent crimes committed with firearms is because obtaining a firearm is a lot more difficult in Australia than in the USA. You can't just walk down to the local mall, fill out some paper work and buy a gun.

But, as I said above, if someone is going to commit an armed criminal offense, they will do it with or without a gun.

Remember, guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people!

This is also true.

In fact, not long after Port Auther and yet more restrictions on publicly owned firearms, a man walked into a busy shopping mall in the melbourne area.

He projuced a massive hunting knife & commences the mass murder of 7 woman, all of whom he didn't know. Just random victims of a nutcase.
One girl had her throat cut so badly, that her head fell off as para's were removing the body.

It really don't matter how much you take away from the general public, if someone wants to do damage, they will find the nearest tool to do it with.

A gun, a knife, a lump of wood, a crowbar, a Vehicle, a broken glass, a screwdriver...

What can the governments do?

Can't ban Drinking Glasses if some sick freak kills 5 people with one..lol Can't ban Cars if a nutter drives one through a Cafe Window & kills 18 people..

I never really got the reason for banning Semi-Auto guns in AU. You can do just as much damage with a peice of wood or a Golfclub.

On;y reason I see is the dissarmement of the public to make them easier to enslave.

We have wandered into lawfulness and legalities. Oddly, here in the US hard drugs are outlawed as well. Seems the criminal element has no problem getting their hands on sufficient quantities to supply the population.

So much for outlawing guns, drugs, speeding, or even stupidity.

reply to post by BlackOps719


Is gun ownership a right or a privilege?
It seems to me that when you speak to an American it’s a Right and when you speak to the rest of the world it’s considered to be a privilege.

en.wikipedia.org...

A Privilege is conditional and can be revoked. A right to bear arms is an inherent, irrevocable entitlement granted to us (Americans) by our Constitution.

Originally posted by meadowfairy
Demandred i think you only take notice when they do show it on tv. How many have not been shown?
Actually you obviously dont live in Sydney because there is a shooting here nearly every month. Drug war shootings at clubs.

And in another 15 years there will most likely be another mass shooting. What makes you think a crazy cant obtain a gun to do a mass shooting.

There a re drive by shootings and lets not mention melbourne.

The media here dont want to show the real picture.

Be weary not to believe all statistics as statisitcs can lie and are usually pad for by those who support it.

www.worldnetdaily.com...

News in Australia is heavily censored.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by meadowfairy]

you made my point when there is a shooting it always gets shown because its not something that happens everyday.

i grew up in sydney i lived there for 30 years its only been the last year i moved to north west queensland, ive had friends who were in the rebels and gypsy jokers my father was a member of the lone wolves and ive had friends who were members of 5T and my weekend hangout used to be kings cross im well aware of the undercurrents of Sydneys criminal elements you want to know the irony, all those who possesed guns had licenses for them some of the most dangerous people i knew didnt have criminal records.

yes you can do what you want with statistics but the evidence is very compelling that the reduction in guns in Australia HAS reduced gun related deaths

Though lawmakers responsible for passing the ban promised a safer country, the nation's crime statistics tell a different story:


Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent;

Assaults are up 8.6 percent;

Amazingly, armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent;

In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300 percent;

In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been dropping steadily;

There has been a reported "dramatic increase" in home burglaries and assaults on the elderly.

this is NRA propaganda they offer no source for where they get their information, they cite armed robberies but armed robberies can be committed with anything considered to be a weapon, knife, machette, fire extinguisher, etc

gun homicides climed 300% aye? so if you have 1 gun related death 1 year then 3 the next year yes i guess it is possible it climed 300%

crime dropping before the gun bans is a lie crime had been steady neither rising nor falling.

NRA really arnt that bright when thats the best they can come up with

[edit on 28-10-2008 by Demandred]

I believe in the right to bear arms. Yeah sure America is violent, but death is inevitable you gotta go someway. I know of people with rocket launchers and serious arsenals of guns. It just some what comforting to know that the Government has to think twice before seriously stepping to American people with force. Although they could just poison us.

reply to post by Justice123



I consider it a right, but I get your point.


Other countries may not have the benefit of a constitution which spells out in clear and proper text what their basic rights are.

Freedom of speech and religion, freedom from illegal search and seizure and the right to bare arms.


Thank god for our constitution and the brilliant men who made it so.

Australia seems to have turned into a country that fears firearms now. 20 or 30 years ago it was perfectly normal to own a firearm, now as a 21 year old male its VERY strange for me to have half a dozen rifles. But my friends always say that if law ever breaks down or there is a zombie apocalypse there coming to my house haha! Im glad at the moment that I do own firearms, its a very unstable time.

Demandred My best mate was Chinese and member of 5T in Cabramatta & Parramatta. What i only know of them is what he told me., never hung out with them. Then you know very well that their motto is to shoot those who betray them.

My stance on it is that no matter how much we are against guns they exist and will be obtained by criminals maybe alot harder for mentally disabled who will probably go for the enxt best thing.

[edit on 28-10-2008 by meadowfairy]

reply to post by meadowfairy


my stance is he who lives by the gun dies by the gun, im not against all gun ownership, but i see no reason why a gun should be owned in an urban setting, farmers yes, RSPCA yes, police No, people who live in rural areas yes

Can i ask you sometthing demadred how would you react to martial law when a gun is being put against your head(not just you, your whole family) on your way to prison when your innocent?

[edit on 28-10-2008 by meadowfairy]

reply to post by Sonya610


Who are the African Americans killing?

This is becoming a comparison of USA and Australian crime stats. So i spent the last 2 hours looking for the respective murder rates, (no links, using a mobile phone sorry) These are the best stats I could find. If you have better ones please post them.

Australia
Population: 20 million
Murders in 2007: 207
Murder rate: 0.0150324 per 1,000

USA
Population: 300 million
Murders in 2007: 26,000
Murder Rate: 0.042802 per 1,000

Originally posted by BlackOps719

If it wasnt for the overwhelming amount of lunatics and idiots running around in society we wouldnt even have a need to own guns for defense.

This comment sparks my interest. Have you, or anybody else from the US actually needed a gun for defense? Or further more, ever used a gun in self defense?

Surely there aren't that many crazies running around

Regarding OP, the answer is NO. I am happy that firearms have been given more incriminating laws here in Aus. My father used to own several rifles, and cashed them all in when the laws came in. He doesn't mind either, as he really has no use for them. If I required a gun for game purposes on a property, i'd get a gun licence, no big deal.

But the comment on needing a gun for defense baffles me, never in my life have I thought, 'man I wish I had a gun right now', and I really can't see it ever coming to that. I said this in another thread like this, "Would your life REALLY be that much different if your gun laws were tightened?"

reply to post by SiONiX


I understand what your saying about the loop, it does make some sense, but you have to take into account that many guns on the blackmarket come illegally from Mexico.

Ok drock i like nationmaster.

Well i was oging to say some would be unaccounted for and missing persons to consider but thats high in both countries.

Yes it seems like people are comparing the 2 countries but there is nothing to compare considering all other factors.

My problem mostly with it would be martial law and nazi type treating off the people who wont be able to defend themselves. As that looks like a brink on the horizon in American i think they should keep the right o bare arms. Not to mention if they fall into depression, cival war breaks out and most probably a ww3.

We are in pretty hard times where right to bare arms would be a given.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by meadowfairy]

reply to post by BlackOps719


black ops said:
"Two things about this subject trouble me greatly. Seeing as America is not the only country on the block who is and will be experiencing serious economic hardship, which will bring with it huge spike in crime and unrest. Europeans as well as many in Oz are already seeing this take place according to many who post there.

Yet every time a subject or a thread is started in regard to Americans who are buying or choosing to own weaponry for self defense, it seems that European and Aussie members are the first ones to criticize or attack Americans for choosing to exercise their second amendment right to defend themselves." .................

you are aware during unrest and high crime rate guns are not just used for self defense? it dos'nt matter what weapon the people have, if they are intent on taking your stuff they will try, but the people trying in america will have guns to.

the only difference is in america people will use guns to take the stuff of people, and others will use guns to defend themselves against that, meaning a lot of dead people, in the U.K. and Australia people will be giving each other chinese burns, the best of 3 wins.

if you were defending against a U.K. person or a Australian person from taking your stuff then yes you would have a distinct advantage and will beable to defend yourself better, because you have a gun and we don't, however that scenerio has a slim(if any) possibility of occurance.

guns against guns makes no difference, its just the same as hands against hands. that is IF you are talking about defending against fellow citizens.

defending against a rouge goverment who intended its people harm is a different story.

Originally posted by JSarge

Originally posted by BlackOps719

If it wasnt for the overwhelming amount of lunatics and idiots running around in society we wouldnt even have a need to own guns for defense.

This comment sparks my interest. Have you, or anybody else from the US actually needed a gun for defense? Or further more, ever used a gun in self defense?

Surely there aren't that many crazies running around

Regarding OP, the answer is NO. I am happy that firearms have been given more incriminating laws here in Aus. My father used to own several rifles, and cashed them all in when the laws came in. He doesn't mind either, as he really has no use for them. If I required a gun for game purposes on a property, i'd get a gun licence, no big deal.

But the comment on needing a gun for defense baffles me, never in my life have I thought, 'man I wish I had a gun right now', and I really can't see it ever coming to that. I said this in another thread like this, "Would your life REALLY be that much different if your gun laws were tightened?"

About 2 weeks ago someone tried to force there way into my house, it was the first time I felt I needed a gun for self defense, but I wished I had a pump-action shotgun instead of my .303. As a sporting shooter and collector of historical firearms, I would very much be affected by tightening of gun laws. The civilian population needs firearms, its makes the government think twice.