A question for our European and Aussie friends...Do you regret giving up your right to own firearms?

reply to post by candyfloss





If you dont want to discuss the topic set forth in this thread then feel free to post in one of the many other threads that are suitable to your liking


Have a great day.

Oh, another point:

Of course we can get guns. But we have to get a license to wear one. We need to be trained, and be part of a shooting club. Also, if you did commit weapon-related crimes in the past, you can't get one.
Weapon stores are very rare, and being able to buy ammo in WalMart is something that would be considered as a joke if I would tell it a friend who doesn't know much about the handling with guns in the US (it's things like this make us shake our head in disbelief, cause it's absolutely unimagible if any idiot could buy ammo everywhere). I'm glad about this.

Same goes for CO2 guns, large knives with larger blades then a hand palm. You can buy them without license, but to carry these with you out in the public you need a so called "Small Gun License" that you can get by visiting a one-day course. If you wanna take them out in the public, on your private property you can own them

[edit on 28.10.2008 by SiONiX]

the OP's question is a bit strange to me. did the people actually get to democratically vote to have own firearms or not? they didn't have a say right? (please correct me if i'm wrong)
thanks.

reply to post by Raud


If I am not mistaken, Swedes are still subjects? It clearly shows in your reasoning. People who respect themselves usually respect others, but subjects must rely on their sovereign for all basic needs, so they are deprived of selfrespect. The lack thereof leads to jelousy and fear. And demands for equality in misery.
It is not as much a matter of self defence as the one of human dignity. Every human being deserves the right to stand his/her ground and respond adequately to violence. MAD concept won the Cold War!
The most polite people I ever met were in Japan (genetic, centuries of Samurai unchecked rule) and Texas - read Concealed Carry.

In answer to your question, there were tens of thousands of us, who once owned registered hand guns, none of us willingly gave them up, they were taken without our consent or approval.
The current Government has passed more laws than any other in history, and much of what they have done was never mentioned in their manifestos.
In the years following the seizure of all legally held handguns, gun crime skyrocketed, simply because the politicians and the Police, did not seize any guns from the criminals.
So now, none of us [law abiding citizens] are permitted to own hand guns, and the paperwork and costs involved in applying for a shotgun or a rifle are quite daunting.
Exempt from all this regulation of course, are the drug gangs and criminals that the same Government has allowed to flood into Our Country from the four corners of the Earth.

reply to post by zooplancton


Actualy yes. The people voted to accept our constitution when first proposed and they still do today. People are a bit afraid thatwe are loosig this right slowly bt mostly we still do vote to keep the 2nd amendment intact.

Zindo

reply to post by horsegiver


that's what i thought.
thanks for the info.

reply to post by horsegiver


Thank you. A voice of reason from the UK on this issue is rare here. I thank you. I know of many who feel the way you do in the UK. More need to voice their concerns and start to bother those in government who think they know best for al!!

Zindo

Criminals in america have guns illegally because they are so easy to come by in america. Any fool can have one over there and those are the ones who have them stolen and then they are sold on the black market. I bet you anything that the black market is ripe with guns stolen from america soil. Do canadians, europeans, and aussie's feel they have been screwed by not being able to have guns like you guys do. No...because we don't have to worry about gun violence as much as america. The gun violence that does occur here or there is due to the fact that these guns most likely came from the good ol' USA. Sure we have gun violence in our countires but is is adaily thing in every city..not even close. I feel that americans are the biggest cowards this world has..because they act like they have no fears of anyone....and this comes from them having thier big guns. Honestly...is an m16 or uzi really needed for hunting? You have to worry about gun violence because it is your own guns being used on you. You use this right to the extreme..buying up any type gun and then turn around and complain when your streets are run over by criminals with guns they steal from you law-abiding citizens. Maybe you should being strong on your own and not having to depend on your big gun for protection. Do we feel jealous that you have this right..NO..but we do feel afraid when any tom , dick and harry can have guns over there, cuz thats just means they are going to lose thier gun and then some fool from our country will have access to this stolen gun. You people make the world a dangerous place to live in.

I think its always a good starting position to try and atleast strat with looking at some facts (difficult I know in this climate of lying/manipulated world media).

Firearms deaths some 30,000+
Road Deaths 40,000+

But wait is the biggest killer Terrorism? Nooooooo.

Shocking statistical evidence is cited by Gary Null PhD, Caroly Dean MD ND, Martin Feldman MD, Debora Rasio MD and Dorothy Smith PhD in their recent paper Death by Medicine - October 2003, released by the Nutrition Institute of America.

"A definitive review and close reading of medical peer-review journals, and government health statistics shows that American medicine frequently causes more harm than good. The number of people having in-hospital, adverse drug reactions (ADR) to prescribed medicine is 2.2 million. Dr. Richard Besser, of the CDC, in 1995, said the number of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections was 20 million. Dr. Besser, in 2003, now refers to tens of millions of unnecessary antibiotics. The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million. The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million. The total number of iatrogenic deaths shown in the following table is 783,936. It is evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the United States. The 2001 heart disease annual death rate is 699,697; the annual cancer death rate, 553,251.

So I'd get your congress people looking at why your own health service is killing soooooooo many? (Oh and the UK isn't much better)

War on Public Health systems???

Yes - at for least gun club membership which i never understood why the banned.

Guns in the house is another story..

reply to post by mlmijyd


I've always found the fact that Dr's and the medical profession as a whole has a worse safety record that gun owners very strange! Dr's associations have, for decades, warned of firearms nasty danger but never police their own!! Kinda like our police!

Zindo

Originally posted by mlmijyd
I think its always a good starting position to try and atleast strat with looking at some facts (difficult I know in this climate of lying/manipulated world media).

Yeah, lets look at some facts. The facts below tell me I am pretty darn unlikely to get shot. Now I do have a pretty reasonable risk of being robbed, burglarized, carjacked, or assaulted.

I am also absolutely unwilling to give up my firearm rights to protect some underclass scum that might steal them and shoot eachother.

Originally posted by mlmijyd
Firearms deaths some 30,000+
Road Deaths 40,000+

Germany (2000):
- Firearms Death: 1.201
--- including only ~200 deaths through criminals/crimes
- Road Deaths: 7.588

Weapon usage of the police in 2002:
- Deaths: 5
---including non-involved: 0
- Injured: 24
--- including non-involved: 0
(all above in self-defence, Source)

Weapon usage of the police in 2003:
- Deaths: 3
---including non-involved: 0
- Injured: 23
--- including non-involved: 2
(all above in self-defence, Source)

Weapon usage of the police in 2004:
- Deaths: 9
---including non-involved: 0
- Injured: 23
--- including non-involved: 0
(all above in self-defence, Source)


Population in Germany:
82.169.000 (as of 02/08)


Sometimes numbers can speak more than a thousand words.

[edit on 28.10.2008 by SiONiX]

Alright already! Jeez! Are you so stupid that you believe that a 9mm is going to stop an army armed with M16s and body armor, not to mention tanks and the like... seriously, in no way, could we (USA) ever ever EVER overthrow the gov.... E-V-E-R!!! Now stop saying thats why we need to own guns. Killing people that try and steal a TV is one thing, a whole trained well equipped army is entirely different.

reply to post by SiONiX


Ok everybody, so far, has danced around this so I'll ask the question. Just how many in your population are 'illegal aliens'. In the US, the statistics are higher for murder and mayhem in our pandered-to illegal population. Our citizens are not the problem. Its those who are of the illegal criminal element that have driven up the statistics on death and murder by firearms in our country. Our government chooses to do nothing to remedy this situation. Our politicians use it against us, as well as other countries. to show that our nation \is stupid and foolish to allow the rest of us who are law abiding to relinquish our constitutional rights. Germany has its borders and illegal problem prety much under control, but if in the future, you don't watch your politicians, you will also have statistics that will bother you.

Zindo

What a lot of Americans fail to understand about the UK in regards to guns is, that guns were not owned for self-defence purposes but for hunting purposes.

You can still legally own a shotgun and a rifle with the correct licence of course, but handguns are banned.

Originally posted by JaneFonda
Alright already! Jeez! Are you so stupid that you believe that a MUSKETis going to stop an army armed with Cannons and Horse Cavalry, not to mention War Ships and the like... seriously, in no way, could we (USA) ever ever EVER overthrow the Britishgov.... E-V-E-R!!! Now stop saying thats why we need to own guns. Killing people that try and steal a Horse and Buggy is one thing, a whole trained well equipped army is entirely different.

What if everyone throughout history thought the same as you?

Americans have already been there and done that one. Quite a fitting screen name to match your post as well, no suprises there.

reply to post by Sonya610


Hmmmm not convinced by your pretty chart that you guys in the US should be allowed to play with your guns. A lot of you are using the things a bit more that you should on each other. But, I don't agree with ANY violence and usage of Guns by police/army also (yeah, I know all about the armed public being a bit of a problem if things turn nasty for the government in times of unrest).

But if you got my logic you should be very worried if you go unarmed into a hostile Hospital environment. I'm serious look at the Stats

reply to post by JaneFonda


Thats an argument frought with inacuracies, To believe that all our men and women in our armed forces would act without regard to the citizens rights of redress to our government is to believe our service people don't have their own families to think about. Just how many service people would fire on their own families and relatives. They would not know who is in the lines on the other side and, believe me they would have to think hard before they pull the trigger. It would be more likely that any officer to order them to fire would be fragged and not live to see the next day. Our service personel are not stupid. There are many who are colege educated and not the ignorant conscriptspeople think they are.

Zindo