Binary code reply? Has this been proven to be a hoax?

Hi guys,

I am new to this site so i apologise if this has been said before. I saw this on youtube about a reply to binary code we sent in 1979 via crop circles.

I thought crop circles were showed to all be hoaxs but just wondered if any of you had seen this and had it been debunked.

uk.youtube.com...

reply to post by tempest501


The crop circle in question is known as Arecibo reply
It appeared near Chilbolton radio telescope (SETI) in UK, on tuesday 21 August 2001.

The original Arecibo message was transmitted as a three trillion watt (omnidirectional equivalent, 1MW actual) broadcast from the Arecibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico. The message was sent in a very narrow beam towards a globular cluster known as M13, 25,100 light years away. It was a pictogram arranged in a matrix of 23 pixels by 73 pixels. It was intended to describe our numbering system, the building blocks and formulas for DNA, the double helix of DNA, the shape and size of a human being, the layout of our solar system, and the radio telescope that sent the message.

Arecibo Reply

As with all crop circles, the origin of the Arecibo reply is highly debated. It should be noted that the 27 years between the time the original Arecibo message was sent and the reply in 2001, there would not nearly have been sufficient time for the message to arrive at its intended destination; furthermore, by the time it does, the M13 cluster will no longer be there. It should also be noted that technology more advanced than ours may have picked up the signal before it reached the intended target.

Comparison with the original message
Original message

Alleged reply




You can find some analysis here:

Chilbolton Code Analysis by Brian L. Crissey, Ph.D.

More...

Circlemakers entry [August 2001]

The The Chilbolton 'Arecibo message' Formation @ Crop Circle Research

I hope this will help you to make your own judgements on this case: i won't even tell you what i think about it before you will express your take on it after taking a look at the documentation and at the analysis.

Thanks for sharing


[edit on 4/10/2008 by internos]

Good subject, this has always intruiged me.

The link below is Nassim Haramein's interesting presentation of his unified fractal theory... the credence of which should probably not be discussed in this forum but........

If you forward the video to around 2hrs10mins Haramein talks about the binary message and response. I think this may be of interest to you.

I must however slap a warning sticker on the front of this one as it's a real mind bender! (I really recommend you find yourself a free 8 hours and watch the whole lot... there's a few posts on here about the theory already).

Be well.

video.google.co.uk...#

[edit on 4-10-2008 by and14263]

You might also find this interesting

www.abovetopsecret.com...

was on ATS a few days ago - another crop circle with a barcode was found in England. Not too sure about this one though, doesn't seem credible and its also not as cool as the one you're posting!

Fascinating read internos Especially one point caught my attention and I would love to hear the take on that from some sceptic (not trying to start a flame war or something , just need some smart answer that is beliveable debunking the fact ).

When you read through the whole analysis they point out many possible scenarios not only ET , but there is one paragraph at the end of the article that umm kind of debunks the "hoax" theory in my opinion . Or at least makes it way more less likely (if somebody wants to play okhamz razor )

The paragraph is called "A Very Interesting Point" . Please read over it and let me know what You think.

Edit : Adding the link to the analysis that I am refering to claudescommentary.com...

[edit on 4-10-2008 by Thill]

Originally posted by Thill

The paragraph is called "A Very Interesting Point" . Please read over it and let me know what You think.

Edit : Adding the link to the analysis that I am refering to

claudescommentary.com...

[edit on 4-10-2008 by Thill]

The fact that 2', 5'-linked RNA is known to hardly any molecular biologist may not be true but its structure (single-stranded helix with 6 bases per turn) is probably lesser known. With this in mind it would seem that you're right in thinking this paragraph almost rules out a hoax completely (imo).

The hoax possibilities that remain would have point to the hoaxers being highly knowledgeable.

Here you have it:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The complete discussion.
Quite some read...go to the can and get a new cup of java first!


[edit on 4-10-2008 by Raud]

reply to post by and14263


Exactly , either we have a highly secret molecular biologist hoax ring out there , running around during night and making crop circles or... well umm or I dont know

OF course somebody could say "but it has been stated that it is only lesser known" which could imply that the hoaxer got the information somehow somewhere but what would be the odds of that ? Molecular biology hobbyist by day ... secret crop circle hoax group member by night ? (sometimes okhamz razor used so happily by all sceptics is kind of useful )

Originally posted by Thill
Fascinating read internos

Especially one point caught my attention and I would love to hear the take on that from some sceptic (not trying to start a flame war or something , just need some smart answer that is beliveable debunking the fact ).

When you read through the whole analysis they point out many possible scenarios not only ET , but there is one paragraph at the end of the article that umm kind of debunks the "hoax" theory in my opinion . Or at least makes it way more less likely (if somebody wants to play okhamz razor

)

The paragraph is called "A Very Interesting Point" . Please read over it and let me know what You think.

Edit : Adding the link to the analysis that I am refering to

claudescommentary.com...

[edit on 4-10-2008 by Thill]

I like your view on this one, Thill
There's a long list of questions extremely hard to answer to. Whenever we see that a prosaic explanation is somehow stretched, then we have to take it with the same amount of salt with which we take the evidence by itself: a crappy explanation is not more value than a crappy evidence That part of the article raises more questions, it refers to observations made by Red Setter: molecular biology is not exactly the type of stuff known by everyone, even within the researchers community.
BUT
If it was a hoax orchestrated at some hight level, that would be the level of hoax i would expect: is this enough to dismiss it as an hoax? I guess it's not
All the observations made regarding the distance between us an M13 cluster are pointless: we don't know what to expect by an unknown technology: it would be like to ignore that a tennis ball can be hit before reaching a given point, that's NOT serious research. To evaluate something unknown using heartly parameters has no points. Sometimes, some empyrical tests are way more helpful than some cold calculations. This is why i prefer that everyone judges for himself/herslef on this case


[edit on 4/10/2008 by internos]

reply to post by internos


Thanks for response and to all of you guys responding i will take a look and tell what i think in the morning.

Thanks again guys i cant belief i got such a through response you guys on ATS are relly cool.

Well after reading through it all and watching the videos I think I have more questions than before lol. Its very intresting that we had crops circles exactly a year before and after. I woud love to believe that this is true but in my gut it just does not feel right.

My search for truth in all thse kinds things seems to get more complex as I go along.

you know until a couple of years a go I was a full believeing Christian but I founf that the more I asked question the more reluctant Pastors/priest are to answer. Instead they just tell you to take it on faith. I believe you must always ask questions , in order to discover the true meaining behind the truth. Thus I ended up here on ATS looking through all this stuff and reading up on Telsa and all things like this.

I am wittering on a bit but I want so bad to know the truth of these matters but the further I dig the more questions I have lol.

One things is for sure its is obvious why they did not send a signal back via radio as it would take too long. But that said how did it get here so fast. I mean if the Speed of Light is indeed finite thenisnt it impossible for them to get it to us this quick. If indeed it is not finite but infinite instead then why could they use means to send a radio signal this way as well as the crop circle.

I am still on the fence on this one, allthough I would love to land in the believer side of the fence.

Originally posted by tempest501
One things is for sure its is obvious why they did not send a signal back via radio as it would take too long. But that said how did it get here so fast. I mean if the Speed of Light is indeed finite thenisnt it impossible for them to get it to us this quick. If indeed it is not finite but infinite instead then why could they use means to send a radio signal this way as well as the crop circle.

The speed of light is only a theoretical maximum. An object travelling closer to the speed of light will increase it's mass exponentially until, when the speed of light is reached, the objects mass would be infinite.

BUT.

Tachyons are a theoretical particle that travels faster than the speed of light. In fact theoretically they cannot actually go slower than the speed of light. It is therefore theoretically (yes I know I keep using that word) possible to travel faster than the speed of light, although we do not know how we would achieve that yet.

So, given that we can assume that there may be civilisations in the universe apart from ours, and that some may be more technologically advanced than us and have a greater understanding of how the universe works, we can therefore safely assume that it IS theoretically possible to send messages over great distances at high, if not infinite, rates of speed.

And I will not even begin to go into other possible methods such as wormholes etc. for it would take me many moons to type it all up

[edit on 5/10/2008 by Kryties]

If anyone can show that the 2' 5' helix thingie was unknown before 2001, then there is little to argue about.

On the other hand, it is true that someone could know that and do this picture on purpose... But I want them as a gardener!!!!!!! So amazingly fast and precise!

I have personnally not been a great fan of crop circles, but there are a few cases that are really beyond explanation. This one is the best one.

Another piece of evidence to put in the "Aliens" file... No proof yet, but a cargoship-sized lot of evidence. Will that do?

reply to post by Kryties

Originally posted by Kryties
One things is for sure its is obvious why they did not send a signal back via radio as it would take too long. But that said how did it get here so fast. I mean if the Speed of Light is indeed finite thenisnt it impossible for them to get it to us this quick. If indeed it is not finite but infinite instead then why could they use means to send a radio signal this way as well as the crop circle.

The speed of light is only a theoretical maximum. An object travelling closer to the speed of light will increase it's mass exponentially until, when the speed of light is reached, the objects mass would be infinite.
that yet.

Just saying that theory you mention is special relativity and there is alot of evidence that supports the speed of light being constant in a vacum and a true maximum. At least in the way we see and understand the universe, I think faster then light speed travel is only possible if we consider our universe to have other dimensions.

Originally posted by Kryties
BUT.

Tachyons are a theoretical particle that travels faster than the speed of light. In fact theoretically they cannot actually go slower than the speed of light. It is therefore theoretically (yes I know I keep using that word) possible to travel faster than the speed of light, although we do not know how we would achieve that yet.

So, given that we can assume that there may be civilisations in the universe apart from ours, and that some may be more technologically advanced than us and have a greater understanding of how the universe works, we can therefore safely assume that it IS theoretically possible to send messages over great distances at high, if not infinite, rates of speed.

Unfortunatly Tachyons in special realativity (if they exist) will still subject to causality and we won't be able to use them to send information faster then the speed of light. I think the true answer to understanding faster then light speed travel will come with understanding what mass truely is and a deeper understanding of gravity. Hopefully experiments at the LHC will give us insight into this, when they fix that leak...

Edit to mention causality is maintained in quantum tachyons as well I was only thinking about special relativity cuz we were talking about the speed of light .

[edit on 5-10-2008 by Steve B]

One thing I am sure of, for me at least, is there possability of other dimensions. I have been following the progress on String theory for a while and have just finished a book called Elegant Universe. I really do thing this theory could be true.

The point i was getting at is if they did break the speed of light to come here and send that message why didnt they send a a radio reply while here too. That would be some serious proof i think.

Im keeping my fingers crossed tho i mean how amazing would it be if this turned out to be genuine.

I want to start off saying I'm terribly sorry for (what I hope will be lol) necroing this post. This is my first post here, and I've had some great difficulty attempting to create my own thread and searching (I dunno what it is but for some reason this site crashes my browser quite frequently [Chrome, maybe that's the issue?]). I believe this is the most recent thread made about the subject (it was first on my search), so hopefully this isn't too offensive to those of forum etiquette enforcement. Again, apologies, my friends.

I have started my own searches and such on the Arecibo response crop circle and it's legitimacies and implications. This lead to a long investigation into the characteristics of the initial message as well. My hopes here are simply to reduce my investigation time. Has this been conclusively proven to be a hoax yet? And if so, please (I don't mean to outsource the work but I'm experiencing many difficulties) provide the source material for said debunking. I personally find this to be one of, if not the, most interesting crop circle cases on record.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, and again, many apologies It's just far too time consuming to start from scratch on my own when I know the extremely capable community of ATS has probably already laboured over this extensively. Again, sorry

Source material? How about your own mind and some simple common sense? If this was a message from alien beings, it would mean the radio signal was received, the signal was translated and interpreted into a visual language, meaning these alien beings have a depth of understanding as our own. So, even though they obviously can receive and interpret radio signals as we do on Earth, instead of sending a similar signal back to us, they decide to come down and smash some wheat/corn stalks? That's laughable. Also, if they are trying to communicate with us, why do so secretly under the cover of darkness?

If you want some type of professional opinion, this is a video of Frank Drake who was the originator of the signal and his view on it:
YouTube

Drake- I think there's no chance whatsoever this is a legitimate message. It's some kind of joke or fun thing or maybe a challenge that somebody made to one another... to somebody to do. And there... two reasons for this, good reasons- One is the version of the message they have here, which I'm about to hold up, contains in it information that is clearly wrong. Such as the structure the DNA molecule and some of the other part to this message make no sense whatsoever. Or are chemically impossible. The other is that, as we saw on the original picture, this message appeared about one hundred meters away from a radio telescope. Now, if you would come to Earth to deliver a message, you would have gone to the door the radio telescope and knocked on the door and given them one of your books or something. You wouldn't have gone out the cornfield and spend a great deal of effort cutting down stalks of corn.
Interviewer ....How do you know... How do you know how the aliens think?
Drake- Well, what I do know is that they're intelligent. Because they somehow got to earth, if this is really from an alien. And they will know better than to try to communicate with humans in this ridiculous way.

a reply to: internos

My personal opinion is all crop circles are man made, I'm not using the word 'fakes' as some are incredible pieces of art, including this one. I just can't fathom why a intelligent species would try and communicate this way...but I can fathom some bored farmers or students doing it.

2', 5'-linked RNA was described as a 'novel' structure in September, 2003, in the scientific literature. It seems obscure enough, though, that its being known to crop circle makers in 2008 appears doubtful.
There is a wealth of other information in the crop circle message, including an alleged inhabited planetary system with a star apparently significantly smaller than than own, and nine planets, in all, as against eight in our system. Three of these planets, the third, fourth, and fifty appear to be inhabited by roughly 13 billion individuals.
The objection that the message has not had nearly enough time to reach its intended destination or any stellar destination is true, but may not be relevant. In a widely traveled galaxy, our message may have been detected in relatively nearby space, between the stars.
Another objection, is that it would make more sense for a extraterrestrial civilization to send a radio reply, or appear in person on Earth, rather than meddle with fields of grain. We are scarcely in a position to pronounce on how another intelligent form of life would think or behave.
For all we know, they may consider an overt message or visit to be inappropriate, given our obvious xenophobia. They may wish to approach us in subtlety , and very gradually. We, after all, have no experience in meeting an extraterrestrial intelligence, whereas they presumably do.

a reply to: tempest501

I thought crop circles were showed to all be hoaxs

Were they now ?

Must have missed the breaking....