Pearl Harbour No 'BOMBS'

Originally posted by SparkOfLife
I read in a number of different books along with a Eric Phelps lecture that during the Pearl Harbour attacks there were no Japanese bombs actually shot at the US ships. Most of the ships had planted explosives in them ? What do you people tinker ?

[edit on 8-9-2008 by SparkOfLife]

Seriously my friend, you need to let us know what books you have read this in. Please tell me that it wasn't in school. If you do then I'm pulling my kids now regardless of whether I get put on a 'terrorist list' or not.

I don't want to belittle your question because every question is a legit one. Just make sure that you do some research before bringing it to this forum. I have seen a lot of these kinds of questions lately. Questions that could easily have been answered with an internet search and a little time and effort.

You are simply asking to be flamed on this one bud.

To your point about buildings, although I agree that something is still extremely smelly with that day and this administration I must disagree on this one.

Now, if you ask me if our government knew something was coming and they purposefully allowed it to happen because Roosevelt stated just a few days before that we would not send our boys to Europe to die...well, that could be a different can of worms.

The Japanese did attack us. They did 'drop' bombs on us. Did we let it happen? Wouldn't be the first time something like that was allowed to happen in order for a nation to enter a war with 'support' from its people.

Originally posted by En4cer

Originally posted by SparkOfLife
during the Pearl Harbour attacks there were no Japanese MISSILES actually shot at the US ships.
[edit on 8-9-2008 by SparkOfLife]

My god. What nonsense are they teaching in the schools now. The Japanese used Missiles in WWII? Thats a new one. I supposes they guided the missiles to their respective targets on Battleship Row with a laser / satellite targeting system too. And let me guess, somehow, some way, Bush 41 was involved in the plot?

The Japanese used missiles in WWII. The "guided" Baka (Ohka) bombs had a 1,000 kilogram warhead and rocket engines. It also had a cockpit for the guidance system to sit in. (Strangely enough, no parachutes seem to have been provided for the guidance system.)

reply to post by Gawdzilla


The "guidance system", such as it was; was a human. the Okha (flyingblossom), the Allies called it Baka (fool); was rocket powered, flown into attack position by a twin enginned bomber prior to launching. Needless to say, it was a sitting duck during this stage to us navy and army fighters...

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

The "guidance system", such as it was; was a human. the Okha (flyingblossom), the Allies called it Baka (fool); was rocket powered, flown into attack position by a twin enginned bomber prior to launching. Needless to say, it was a sitting duck during this stage to us navy and army fighters...

Thanks for reading what I said. The pilot was the guidance system.

The rocket was a sitting duck when it was still attached to the mother ship. After it left and fired the engines there was nothing in the sky that could catch it. It was very feared by the USN.

reply to post by SparkOfLife


Go to Hickam AFB and actually LOOK at the bullet holes that are still in the buildings there and tell me that they didn't bomb the are. Go into the Wing Headquarters building and LOOK at the flag that was flying over Hickam that day, along with the shrapnel and pictures of that day, and tell me that they weren't bombed.

Instead of believing everything you read in a book or on the internet actually GO to these places and LOOK.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Or perhaps listen to those of us who are a tad bit more knowlegable on the topic...either through seeing for ourselves, or doing the research; I've done both. The profound effect of seeing those bullet holes is staggering, and the Arizona memorial has an effect that I can't describe to you. Bunches of loudly dressed tourists absolutely silent, and the outline of the ship in those clear tropical waters, with an occaisional bubble of oil coming to the surface; tells you that the effect of this attack are still on going.

This attack unleashed in Americans an anger that we're still, at least the older Americans from that period, dealing with today well over a half century later... My father, fought during WWII, in the Pacific Theater. He saw, and probably did, some things that he's profoundly effected by. He, who hates few things, absolutely loathes the Japanese. America, and the rest of the world, would never be the same after that day in Hawai'i.

reply to post by seagull


I lived and worked on Hickam for almost 20 years. I drove past Pearl Harbor every day from 1989 until late 2005 on my way to work and school, and saw both the Arizona Memorial and later the Missouri docked next to it. For years you could tell which hangars on Hickam had been bombed, right up until just before I left. Some of them still had the signs on the wall for the B-18 weights, including with a crew chief on board.

No bombs? To be quite frank, this thread should be reviewed by the ATS admins as a marked [HOAX] thread.

Here are a few screenies of pictures (i.e.: one a video) showing a bomb hole in the deck of the USS Arizona. Ironic, huh?


USGS: Photo #1



NPS.gov: Video #1



USS Arizona Preservation Project 2004: Photo #2


More could easily be provided. Deny ignorance....

[edit on 7-4-2009 by Seekerof]

reply to post by Zaphod58


I've visited on a number of occaisions, probably while you were still working there, back in the 80's? Odd how small the world is, isn't it? It had the same effect everytime.

reply to post by seagull


Yeah, no matter how many times I saw it the Arizona got to me every time. The museum is just amazing, especially the torpedo that they found while they were dredging.

"What if"??
think about this before asking a question like that
Why would the US Want to Destroy their own pacific fleet
why would they want to destroy billions of dollars of equipment
why would they want to destroy the most powerful ships on the sea
etc etc

Saying that the US did this to its own makes me mad and just wish i didn't read this post. Japan did attack the US as provided by many members on this site but i think that they were provoked to attack the US. I think that when the US cut off Japans oil supply, the life blood of Japan, they had no other choice as it would have seemed.

But to say that the US did it, is just outrageous.

btw i am Canadian and i feel bad everytime i watch or see photos/videos of pearl harbour.

Originally posted by SauberBMW
"What if"??
think about this before asking a question like that
Why would the US Want to Destroy their own pacific fleet
why would they want to destroy billions of dollars of equipment
why would they want to destroy the most powerful ships on the sea
etc etc

There are endless reasons why the US wouldn't have "just let it happen". For example, the carriers were out that day, true. But the Enterprise was trying to get back in. She was delayed due to difficulty in fueling her escorting destroyers. Her crew really wanted to get in because they had a big baseball game scheduled for Saturday. With the Arizona.

To all of you who think/believe that the Roosevelt Admin. knew of the attack before hand and did nothing, I'd really like to see the evidence. Everything I've ever read points to the US military knowing something was going to happen, and soon...they just, until it was too late, didn't know where.

Peacetime thinking is hard to shed. It's one thing to be fairly sure that something is going to happen, it's another to know and prepare... Remember the mindset of the US military towards the Japanese at that time...

The Japanese were incapable of defeating a western power on their own...despite having done the Russians some 37 years prior. They could only imitate, not do anything original. An assumption that was, obviously, much mistaken...

Also take into account the fact that negotiations were on going between the United States and the Japanese Empire.

All these factors and more, play into the fact the United States military in Hawai'i and elsewhere were caught badly by surprise and paid a heavy price.

Sorry if this has been already stated...but I needed to repeat. I do not believe any bombs were dropped, nor any missiles fired, I remember reading that it was strictly torpedos and it is probable some of the artillery shells kept in the warships being attacked could have been blasted into the air intact, and would have then exploded coming back down to the ground mistaken for Japanese bombs.

Originally posted by raj9721
Sorry if this has been already stated...but I needed to repeat. I do not believe any bombs were dropped, nor any missiles fired, I remember reading that it was strictly torpedos and it is probable some of the artillery shells kept in the warships being attacked could have been blasted into the air intact, and would have then exploded coming back down to the ground mistaken for Japanese bombs.

USS Arizona was killed by 16" armor piercing shells rebuilt into bombs. USS Pennsylvania was heavily damaged by aerial bombs. Cassin and Downes, two destroyers in the same dry dock with her were both damaged as well. And, of course, there's USS Shaw. See the image for her.

reply to post by raj9721


I would really like to see your evidence for this... My opinion on this is you've been misinformed.

Both American and Japanese records indicate that the IJN used naval shells converted into bombs to penetrate the deck armours of the battleships.

I know that this is an old thread, but holy excrement this is the silliest idea I've ever seen!

Originally posted by SparkOfLife



C'mon, just like we didn't blow up our own buildings ?





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[edit: removed unnecessary quote of entire previous post]
Quoting - Please review this link



[edit on 8-9-2008 by 12m8keall2c]

Do you honestly believe that no one would ever consider attacking the U.S.? Wouldn't it make more sense to theorize that the U.S. intentionally lowered its gaurd, because we have no absence of enemies and foes looking to do us harm. Are you honestly sugesting that the Japanese were not a hostile nation, and furthermore, that they just happened to be in the air over Hawaii when the US intentionally bombed its own ships?

Originally posted by SparkOfLife
I read in a number of different books along with a Eric Phelps lecture that during the Pearl Harbour attacks there were no Japanese bombs actually shot at the US ships. Most of the ships had planted explosives in them ? What do you people tinker ?

[edit on 8-9-2008 by SparkOfLife]

Most of the ships had fuel in them. The planes had fuel too, and each one had a suicidal kamikaze pilot that would crash land the planes onto targets. Yeah it's a foreign concept when someone in the Middle East wraps a belt of explosives around their body and turns themself into meat in an instant, taking out their anger on their neighbors, but Japan was doing that decades ago with entire fleets of vehicles. That is war for you, people who have nothing left to lose tend to go into self extinction for a cause rather than vanishing into the background, in war. I suspect that future suicidal/homicidal tactical war nationalist or religious maniacs are going to buy entire companies and slam-bankrupt them on purpose for future wars, ruining their own character, turning their enemy's economy into mush.

Perhaps those bombs were "made in China" proving Phelps' standpoint. Maybe, considering the resource allocations at the time, "made in Germany".