McKinnon loses appeal hearing

reply to post by Kryties


Well said Kryties!

Shamanator doesn't have an argument to make, he is just trying to wind everyone up!

Ross

Your right I don't have an argument to make there is no arguing over this it's simply facts. Gary's not going to get a death penalty I doubt his sentence will be all that substantial actually but I fully support the extradition. Gary's no kid he's a guy in his forty's who knew exactly what he was doing and kept doing it.

I understand the British don't like seeing their own being extradited but they signed the treaty and Gary did the crimes like i said in my previous post the US waited a long time to see some justice done and it wasn't so we made moves to extradite him.

No way is someone getting away with messing around with the US military that's just a simple fact it's not an argument.

Mckinnon will do his time the whole UFO angle is just a smokescreen and this site is probably one of the only places he has any support at all as some people will believe anything on here.

I found a video of his protest linked from the free Gary site and actually counted the protesters my count is around twenty four I'll say thirty just to be generous which lets be honest isn't a lot of support at all. The fact is most British people don't care and know he deserves it.

As far as I'm aware I've posted nothing but fact's in all my posts about his crimes do try not to take my views personally it's just how I see it.

In a world were a naive music download can cost someone thousands and even substantial prison time I hardly think Gary can complain after all he hacked nearly a hundred military computers intentionally to make him out to be a victim is an injustice in itself.

Originally posted by Shamanator
I understand the British don't like seeing their own being extradited

Neither do the Aussies, nor anyone from any other country for that matter. This website, for your information, is WORLDWIDE!!! Imagine that!

No way is someone getting away with messing around with the US military that's just a simple fact it's not an argument.

All I can hear in my head is 'Hooah' (and not in a good way). You know that us Aussies are considered to be the best fighters in the world don't you? We train YOUR special forces. Yet you do not see us extraditing Americans to Australia do you?

I found a video of his protest linked from the free Gary site and actually counted the protesters my count is around twenty four I'll say thirty just to be generous which lets be honest isn't a lot of support at all. The fact is most British people don't care and know he deserves it.

So 1 video is your absolute proof? Did the video cover the entire day? People come and go during protests, what you saw on that video was only a small slice of the day. Oh and not only does Gary have British support, he has support from the people all over the world who couldn't fly there for the protest (remember that big wide world we were discussing before!!)

As far as I'm aware I've posted nothing but fact's in all my posts about his crimes do try not to take my views personally it's just how I see it.

Facts which lead to a man being wrongfully extradited. He did the crime, but deserves the time IN HIS OWN COUNTRY (you know, the big wide world I have referred to several times....)

In a world were a naive music download can cost someone thousands and even substantial prison time

I have not heard of one successful case having been brought against an illegal downloader. Most have been thrown out of court.


The fact is Shamanator, you have made yourself out to be a redneck hick who sits on his front porch with a shotgun ordering Cletus around. Your opinion will never be respected because it is closed minded, bullyish and quite frankly the world is sick of hearing about the 'Great and Almighty America'.


[edit on 4/9/2008 by Kryties]

reply to post by Shamanator


Shamanator - I heave read through all your posts and there is one straight fact you always seem to ignore and not comment on- namely that the "crime" was committed from a house in London and under UK law that means he MUST be tried here in the UK. There is no arguing with this fact, it is British law and we will continue to fight until the day he is on the plane (and probably afterwards too).

The fact that only a small number of people were at the protest was NOT because he doesn't have support, it's because the national press here are giving this little or no attention (probably under government orders). If the SUN gave this front page and called on its patriots to stand up for Gary, he would have had THOUSANDS of people there! Unfortunately, the greatest majority of people in the UK have no idea what is happening and that's just how the government want it.

Ross

In reality Gary will probably end up getting a job with the Feds - isn't that what they do with all the best hackers?

Octopussassin
www.nuganhand.wordpress.com

Originally posted by Octopussassin
In reality Gary will probably end up getting a job with the Feds - isn't that what they do with all the best hackers?

Octopussassin
www.nuganhand.wordpress.com

Better yet, how about a job with Scotland Yard? Or Interpol? That's a little closer to home for him.

Shamanator - I heave read through all your posts and there is one straight fact you always seem to ignore and not comment on- namely that the "crime" was committed from a house in London and under UK law that means he MUST be tried here in the UK.

Well technically the crime was committed on American soil as that's where the hack took place but of course the Internet being International will always have jurisdiction issues in this regard.

Which is probably one of the reasons for the extradition treaty in the first place you could say the British government sold Mckinnon out but really he did it himself.

You can protest the treaty all you want maybe you need better negotiators but it's unlikely to do Gary any good he should have took the deal but from his hacks you can tell that the guy has absolutely no instinct for common sense I still shake my head thinking about the foolish things he did without even the slightest attempt to mask his address or remain hidden.

I'm kinda convinced the guy has some mental issues personally maybe they'll find that out when he's here.

reply to post by Shamanator


He has in fact recently been diagnosed as having "Ashbergers Syndrome" which is a similar condition shown in the film The Rainman.

As far as the campaign goes, we have today called for Britain's leading newspaper The Sun to get behind a campaign against extradition and we will not give up on this!

Ross

Originally posted by Shamanator

Well technically the crime was committed on American soil as that's where the hack took place but of course the Internet being International will always have jurisdiction issues in this regard.

Wrong wrong wrong. The computer used to do the 'hacking' was located in the UK. The only thing that entered and exited the US was electrical impulses. Go ahead and try to arrest an electrical impulse will you? Also could you explain how the Internet being International makes it America's jurisdiction?

Which is probably one of the reasons for the extradition treaty in the first place you could say the British government sold Mckinnon out but really he did it himself.

You really have not researched this have you? Now you are just making guesses.

You can protest the treaty all you want maybe you need better negotiators but it's unlikely to do Gary any good he should have took the deal but from his hacks you can tell that the guy has absolutely no instinct for common sense I still shake my head thinking about the foolish things he did without even the slightest attempt to mask his address or remain hidden.

You, by this statement, have shown your absolute ignorance for computers and technology. Do you even know how he managed to access the remote systems? Do you know how the Internet even works?

I'm kinda convinced the guy has some mental issues personally maybe they'll find that out when he's here.

So your a psychologist now are you? Claiming someone 'has mental issues' without a shred of proof or expertise is going beyond ignorant, it's damn-right insulting.

[edit on 4/9/2008 by Kryties]

I feel bad for the guy but I have no doubt he is guilty.

He should really have been a lot more careful than he was I think it's to late to help him in any meaningful way though.

Should be sentenced in the UK but can't see it happening at this stage

[edit on 4-9-2008 by Teknikal]

Wrong wrong wrong. The computer used to do the 'hacking' was located in the UK. The only thing that entered and exited the US was electrical impulses. Go ahead and try to arrest an electrical impulse will you? Also could you explain how the Internet being International makes it America's jurisdiction?

It's Americas duristiction because the Computers hacked were on American soil and belonged to the American Government. And as for the impulses (TCP/IP Packets to anyone who knows anything by the way) I guess it isnt a crime to detonate a radio controlled bomb by your logic either.

You, by this statement, have shown your absolute ignorance for computers and technology. Do you even know how he managed to access the remote systems? Do you know how the Internet even works?

He made no attempt to hide his Identity most competent hackers would have used a bounce or several in fact and why use a program that shows his actions on the screen that makes no sense at all there are thousands of RATS (remote administration tool) which will remain hidden and still let you look around a computer.

Oh and yes I know how the internet works in it's basics TCP/IP, DNS, Packets, I have never ever heard of it working on pulses though

So your a psychologist now are you? Claiming someone 'has mental issues' without a shred of proof or expertise is going beyond ignorant, it's damn-right insulting.

Not a psychologist either sorry but a lot of the stuff he did doesn't make sense by most peoples logic and seems to be lacking in common sense and self preservation.

reply to post by Shamanator


So what would be your take if the growing campaign here sees the government U-turn and STOP the extradition?

Ross

Originally posted by Shamanator
Oh and yes I know how the internet works in it's basics TCP/IP, DNS, Packets, I have never ever heard of it working on pulses though

You have obviously never heard of Fiber Optics then have you?

Gary never claimed to be an expert hacker, he even said he never expected to get anywhere. The ease with which he slid into unprotected systems (some controlled by blackmarket CISCO routers bought by the US Govt from China) and the fact he was able to work his way around these supposed 'sensitive' systems only indicates America's lack of control over their own security. If anything Gary should be applauded for pointing out this flaw in your systems, not jailed for it and certainly not jailed in America.

Well If the British Government reversed it that would probably be the end of the matter might cause some political fallout but ultimately it's Britain's decision either to extradite him or not.

Either way I'd expect him to end up serving time though even if it was a token amount. I honestly can't see the British Government reversing it though.

Not sure how his disease plays into it though honestly if it gets confirmed and I don't doubt that he could indeed have it.

hi guys
listen i wouldn't worry too much about shameassholetner, Its obvious hes just a windup merchant without sympathy or compassion, love to see if it was one of his fellow redneck cletouses, typical big headed bully tactics common with that type of yank redneck ****.

I would simply place him on ignore as i HAVE NOW DONE

yes the world is really getting fed up with America and its corrupted politics but alas our spineless UK politicians ain't much better reason why hes being extradited.

Unfortunately for the world Shameassholanter is typical of a lot of patriotic yanks but not all are bad and it would be wrong to tar them all with the same brush, Oh well Gary I wish him luck. I don't think its over yet,, maybe just the beginnig.
will be keeping an eye on this one me thinks the Yanks are covering up motly what most ATS people already pretty much know

my 2 cents
peace all (except you shamassholenter




[edit on 8-9-2008 by kirky]

Originally posted by Kryties

Wrong wrong wrong. The computer used to do the 'hacking' was located in the UK. The only thing that entered and exited the US was electrical impulses. Go ahead and try to arrest an electrical impulse will you? Also could you explain how the Internet being International makes it America's jurisdiction?

That logic is idiotic. Lets suppose, for the sake of the argument, that instead of accessing government computers handling sensitive data, Mr. McKinnon accessed the SCADA system of an American power plant, causing a power outage in a small city. One can only imagine the kind of damage and loss that kind of outage can cause. Maybe someone gets killed when the traffic lights go out, or a patient dies in the ER, or whatever. Perhaps Mr. McKinnon hacks directly into a hospital's supervisory system and either inadvertently or on purpose shuts down systems that are caring for people, or even keeping them alive. He is not responsible, because it was only "electrical impulses" that crossed our borders?

You logic is flawed in childish. You would imply that the man standing in Canada who shoots an American on his side of the border is not guilty and/or cannot extradited because he was not physically in the country where the supposed crime was committed, and that the bullet was the only thing that entered into the US.

Your argument is weaksauce.

Originally posted by Kryties
Gary never claimed to be an expert hacker, he even said he never expected to get anywhere. The ease with which he slid into unprotected systems (some controlled by blackmarket CISCO routers bought by the US Govt from China) and the fact he was able to work his way around these supposed 'sensitive' systems only indicates America's lack of control over their own security. If anything Gary should be applauded for pointing out this flaw in your systems, not jailed for it and certainly not jailed in America.

So by using this flawed logic, the person who finds the door to your house unlocked is welcome to enter and do what they want, because you were to stupid to lock it, or maybe you couldn't afford to buy a proper lock?

And then, after the burglar smashes your new plasma TV and whizzes on your brand new wall-to-wall carpet, you should thank him for pointing out you obviously lax home security?

Its sounds to me that your defending this cretin because he did something you support, and you don't like the guy with the nice TV and new carpet, because he is a big fat jerk and got what he deserved, right?

You lame arguments show you don't support law and order, rather nationalism and hooliganism.

WHAT If Gary KNOWS for sure that the US/UK is sitting on top of world/life changing technology? More than anyone at ATS. Would we believe him? Why 70 years? What’s that all about?
mmmmmmmmmm I wonder ...all this talk about logic, reasoning and breaking the law, cant do the time don’t do the crime nonsense. Try for once putting yourself in tha same shoes for pity’s sake. I find it whimsical, very strange and worrying that so many people remain pathetically unsympathetic and totally uncompassionate for this poor sod. I find it strange also that most people seem to be distracted by the possible importance of this case and what it could represent to the planet.

Fact Nixon broke into other peoples files when he was president, very illegally I might add…Watergate anyone, Ok so he was the scapegoat cause he ok’d it, lost his job but I didn’t see anyone there get 70 years for that. Maybe a few slaps on the wrist. Mmmm Nixon probably though cause he was presy he could get away with Murder. Remind you of anyone in Charge lately!! Aaaaaa different times..

Fact. Investigative journalists regularly push the boundaries of law and privacy when exposing corruption especially within government, and when its exposed we all gasp and give the journalist/reporter/investigator a big slap on the back for doing their job supremely. But Gary gets extradited with possible 70 years hanging. What’s the difference here, well those people are keen, professional investigative journalists/reporters PI’s if you will. Gary’s just a meek, inquisitive, mild mannered quite stoner. Reminds me of the young fragile moth getting to close to the light bulb. Boy isn’t everyone at the Top of government just green keen to get him locked up/shut up. What a big nasty Bin Laden of an international terrorist Gary is….not.

WHY I wonder.
To theorize. If Gary’s had somehow been able to download at today’s pace in megabytes per second, and somehow exposed those contents to the world media, mainstream and alternative sources,….and it was all corroborated as black and white day and night, what might happen, now this could have been juicy….For one there would be an uproar of disgust from the general populace of the planet. I mean come on if everybody knew that we could have anti-gravity, Free energy, Life extensions etc etc…God there would be so much civil unrest,, Politicians would be getting axed by the boatload for keeping all hidden. Sending ,millions to die in wars that were unnecessary…whats that you say SECRET FRIGGEN SPACE PROGRAM!!! ..rioting in the streets..demands for this…demands for that..you get the picture. I’m sure. Lots of chaos, well maybe not that much. Maybe it would be a calm astonishment/shock before the storm so to speak

Ok OK. So it’s a theory. But just what if…JUST what if 1% of its true. What exactly are the Governments Hiding. Fact Gary said he was looking for UFO #. He states he found it, a lot of it. He also left some rather rude comments on the computers. Seems like Gary got a bit peeved that they were hiding HOT stuff from lil old me and you. It stinks highly of secrecy, cover-up and damage control. Make Gary a scapegoat and that should put off any other Gary McKinnon wannabees.

Its clear that good ol Gary obviously got updated on the true and dark/black nature of what’s really going on at the pentagon and Nasa. I mean if he broke into nearly 100 computers it’s a given cert that he has seen a lot of Dirt. It’s also blindly crystal that Gary is being made a scapegoat and the US Government (and British with full keen unadulterated cooperation probably for that matter) are very keen to get him banged away, probably “interviewed” as to the full extent of his memories contents. I think somebody mentioned water boarding earlier, which made me sick to my stomach.

Now that is scary. As I’m sure Gary is aware as we are here at ATS the US Government/Military is getting a rather bad reputation regarding the treatment of prisoners civilian and military

[edit on 9-9-2008 by kirky]

Now that is scary. As I’m sure Gary is aware as we are here at ATS the US Government/Military is getting a rather bad reputation regarding the treatment of prisoners civilian and military, GiTMO anyone. I’m sure he’s #ting his pants at the minute which is extremely sad for someone like this poor sod to be going through.

And yes
He does have my sympathies and compassion, unlike some here have commented, if it were a Yank or anyone for that matter, anywhere on the planet if it was another “Gary Mckinnion” I would still be of the same opinion and conclusion.

I think Gary knows tons more of what he’s already said. I thinks he’s also scared #less of saying too much. I mean it is his life. I mean he does have Human rights. Or does he…

As far as I’m concerned Gary is Guilty as hell of being too inquisitive. Like a lot of us here on ATS we KNOW that there is more going on than the # shovel were fed. Would we have done any different if give the opportunity. I mean if you could really know for 110% certainty. You can say NO WAY but I dunno. But to fry a moth is cruel by anyone’s civil standards. Curiosity killed then cat and all that. I don’t think its over yet.
Peace

Kirky


[edit on 9-9-2008 by kirky]

reply to post by Pyros


Quite frankly I do not care what you think Your attempts at humiliating me (by calling me childish and lame etc etc) are useless and only serve to reflect your own mentality. I believe what I believe and there is nothing you can say or do to change that

PS: You and Shamanator could get a room

[edit on 9/9/2008 by Kryties]