US Economy diving, All major bank stock prices dropping like a ROCK

Did you read that article 2 million making below 5.15, the federal wage. What about the states with a little higher wage. They where not taken in to account on that number. People are hysterical why, because yes in fact the economy is bust. Just because you have not felt it yet (I am sure you have) does not mean a whole lot of other people aren't felling it. People need to start caring about others now and not just think of themselves. And buy the way how is the short selling going for ya now.

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
reply to post by TruthWithin

 

You think 100 million Americans make minimum wage? Have you even done your research? The number is more like 2 million. You were off by just a bit, give or take 98 million. A grand total of 2 out of 300+ million make minimum wage, and large portions of those are teenagers in temporary/part time job where they admit in surveys they just want the job for spending money.

Source: www.usatoday.com...

On to the topic of the thread: Since everyone wants to be hysterical about the economy, the failure of IndyMac had nothing to do with the bank and everything to do with a (gasp) democrat Senator:

"The immediate cause of the closing," the OTS wrote in a press release, "was a deposit run that began and continued after the public release of a June 26 letter to the OTS and the FDIC from Senator Charles Schumer of New York." The OTS added: "In the following 11 business days, depositors withdrew more than $1.3 billion from their accounts."

online.wsj.com...

The only thing that is causing hysteria in the economy are the people themselves who prefer to buy into the doom and gloom than do their research. Thousands of them lined up outside of IndyMac branches so they could panic in front of the media cameras when all they needed to do was withdraw their money online (online banking is a wonderful thing).

[edit on 15-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

Thats kind of like saying, If everyone pretended there isn't a problem, then there wouldn't be a problem. haha Thats how bigger problems get started.

Because everyone knows its good to avoid your problems right!

reply to post by ghostlandseller


What? No, that is like saying, you should not intentionally try to instill fear and panic when there is no reason to. But this IS ATS, so I understand why such concepts would be hard to understand.

reply to post by ghostlandseller


It's just a primitive understanding of how the economy works, that's all.

See, Schumer might be blamed for the collapse.. but at any other bank if 1.3 billion where withdrawn (not including the amount of automatic DEPOSITS) they would not have collapsed. Especially not that fast.

The senator may actually have been quite correct questioning whether or not they where solvent..

We know for a fact every major institution has been down rated by the Standards and Poor .. but how deep the trouble really is no one knows .. the banking industry is very clandestine.

Is the problem with the economy the consumer?

No.

Is the problem with the institutional idea of "buy now pay later" debt? ...

Yes. perpetrated and exploited by the banks.

reply to post by Rockpuck


The Office of Thrift Supervision has a primitive understanding of economics, but you, Rockpuck, understand the complex situation that they cannot? I suppose an entire office filled with experts in economics has no idea what its doing. Its only their job to analyze things like this. I think it is closer to reality that *YOU* do not understand how politics works.

If you withdrew $1 billion over the course of a week in a very large number of banks, you would find them collapsing. Its just fact. IndyMac was not in the major leagues in deposits.

[edit on 15-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

I'm just sitting here hoping that my bosses don't have all their little egglets in one basket...or in this case, all their money in one bank. otherwise, if they have to bail out their bank, well, bye, bye job probably.
Our bank recently merged with a bunch of other banks in the area and they were all renamed...so, now they are one bank. so, if I wasn't up to speed, and had alot of money, and had accounts in all these banks before they merged, in an effort to keep the money FDIC insured, well, they wouldn't be insured anymore. CNN I think it was was playing that one up yesterday. I imagine all the banks are having lots of fun now as people frantically try to move their money around to ensure that they don't loose too much if their bank is next.
Luckily many of us don't have $100,000 or whatever sitting in banks anyways....I guess.
I guess now, at least for the time being, maybe it's a good thing not to have all that money to worry over?

So, here we are again. More banks are three sheets to the wind. Just thought i would bump this since it is the first thread that discussed this matter. cough. haha

it seems liek this ave is the worst wave yet. Its almost liek a domino effect right now! One goes down, inflicts damage on the next bank, it crashed and drags down another. It a nightmare.

And im sick of everyone talking about gold!! and silver! its crap. it dropped 5% the day before! and its just even for the week. Gold and silver is down nearly 50% in the last 2 months. Its a good buy but everyone is jsut now all of the sudden raving about gold! Come on!

[edit on 18-9-2008 by ghostlandseller]

gold/silver......empty promises on paper vs. the real thing...

I ventured onto ebay yesterday and found something interesting.
two auctions that were on for about the same amount of time ending about the same time. one was for 5 oz of actual silver, the other was for a certificate of ownership of 5 oz. of silver.

the actual silver went for $112.50, over $20/oz
the certificate though, well, that went for $73.00, around $14.60/oz...
the quote for silver on apmex this morning as I write this is $12.47, which seems to be more of an estimate of how much the empty promises on paper more than the actual value of the metal itself. the reason I say that they are empty promises written on paper is that the people who deal this stuff is basically operating like the banks do I think. they own x amount of silver but they are leveraging it so for each actual peice of silver, there might be 10, 20 or heck 100 or more people who "own" it. then, by what I hear, in order to get your silver in your hands.....well, many of these companies are charging fees that put the actual price closer to that $20 an oz, if not more.

and then there's the fact that worldwide, there are reports that there's a shortage of silver. which is what high demand, along with artificially low prices will produce!


If you don't believe me about the two auctions, I saved the links to both of them, I'd post them but well....not sure how that would look. I wasn't the seller of either of them and really don't want to give the impression that I am promoting their business.

it's just a little gem that I discovered yesterday. and well, I get a few of the newsletters from the silver and gold dealers and they've been going on about this for awhile now.

Im going to add some updated charts. These will show the momentum of some major banking stocks.

Wachovia 12 month.




wachovia 2 month





Morgan stanley 12 month




Morgan Stanley 2 month





Wells Fargo 12 month




wells fargo 2 month




[edit on 18-9-2008 by ghostlandseller]

I usually buy my silver or even gold on ebay. The best way to get as clsoe to or even below the melt value of silver iss to buy old US coins. For example Bulk lots of Kennedy half dollars that are 90% sivler. Or silver quarters, or silver dime rolls.

The US economy is like a house with a broken, slanting foundation. Rather than re-design and re-do it, Bush is simply pouring concrete into the rubble. Worse yet, he's trying to bulldoze the surrounding ground to match the slanting foundation (he's been doing that for years).

Originally posted by gl2
The US economy is like a house with a broken, slanting foundation. Rather than re-design and re-do it, Bush is simply pouring concrete into the rubble. Worse yet, he's trying to bulldoze the surrounding ground to match the slanting foundation (he's been doing that for years).

This is a fantastic analogy.

I have looked at it like a 3rd degree heart block (electrical activity between atria and ventricles are not in conjunction). The rhythm is generally lethal unless you get a pacemaker. However, you can't use a SEARS battery to charge the thing.

And that's what 600 billion in loans is, a SEARS heavy duty car battery stuck to the chest of a dying 95 year old woman!

reply to post by traderjack


I see the loan as more of a mega dose of Epi that'll revive an economy in asystole just long enough to keep it going on a vent running on a battery...but when the battery fails ---------

Interesting. UMB Financial stock just went up 17% in the past few days.

As for Bush's plan to simply dump the mess into the Fed: The Federal Reserve Bank is some 90 % foreign-owned--it's not even a government bank. Why do we let the most disliked, screw-up president in modern history re-design US finance DURING HIS LAST 6 WEEKS IN OFFICE??!!

He shouldn't be allowed to do anything significant while he waits in a corner for an adult to come to the rescue. Worse yet, rather than create a new currency--say the "eco," a currency based on sustainable resources and completely controlled by an independent, qualified government panel of experts--a government owned/controlled currency to replace the dollar and the Fed, Bush is lumping 30 trillion dollars worth of YOUR mortgages directly into the Fed!!!

Why do we let a failed imp who betrays us betray us yet further? Do you see the danger in it? Once again, it makes US pay for Fed-Bush mafia cronies' mistakes. To quote another, "when banks fail, the money doesn't disappear; it ends up in fewer hands." That's exactly what the Bush plan is: write a blank check for Goldman, Rockefeller, and Rothschild while a few token co's (Lehman, Bear Stearns) go down with a pirate's ship.

Bush is propping up a failed paradigm--by that I don't mean freedom to choose as you prefer, but the Fed Reserve crony mafia. Let's face it: this is a chance for us to plan a better system, to push it all in a better direction. Don't simply re-assign your mortgage to narco-dealing, child sex slave trading sociopaths! Don't be a debt slave to pirates!

Bush's cronies want this to happen so that we're all in the hole with the Fed, the NWO and it's mousy little minions. They are cowards--they really know how to keep their mouths shut about the worst crimes in your entire lifetime. Rather than bow your head and say YES MASTER! fight back!!!

Please, make some noise! Provoke others to help think up a better alternative.

Where's our resident genius WallStTraderGuy? I bet he's looking for work currently and unable to comment here.

HOW IS IT GOING!!!!!!!!


Wow, its been a good few months hasn't it! haha I'm ticked off i cant short all the banks. Did good with wachovia last week! pocketed nearly 400% off that stock thanks to WELLS FARGO! At lease some people could make some money off the banks crashing. Today isn't looking good. I just thought i would bump this because i think this may be (another) big week for the US stock market. Thigns are looking pretty scrappy all over the place before the market opens in a few hours.

European/Indian/asian markets down on average 5%...

Dow futures down another 200pts before market open.

Oil below $90!

Silver below $11!!!! same with platinum tanking to $930 an ounce. , In july platinum was at $2000 an ounce and silver was at $20 an ounce. While GOLD in july was at $950, now...its at $850....Gold is respectively super over valued compared to silver and platinum. These three metals usually move in unison. So the spread between them right now is redculous!

BUT silver to buy it is about a 40% premium. If you want to buy an ounce of silver on ebay it will cost you about $15-even $20 per an ounce. Even though its spot price is $10.70 right now. Rediculous!

But there is a lot of buz about this week. A lot of odd anomalies right now. Things arent looking healthy. Vital signs aren't looking quite right.


Anyways if anyone wants to pocked A LOT of money. BUY SILVER!!!! Im pretty sure a few months ago i told everyone to short the entire banking sector. Damn i hope someone out there heard that and did it. You would be one happy person. haha. like me. Im not making predictions, im just using my knowledge. AND if you own Gold, sell it and repalce it with silver.

Silver isn't just a good investment metal. (1) It will be very easily traded for goods because its easier to give someone $5 worth of silver than to pull out a file and shave off $5 in gold dust. haha Also silver is an industrial metal with more future upside than gold as it is less expensive and makes a much better industrial use. Also If the government decides to claim all your gold....Be glad you own silver. haha Because you will be able to keep it. But silver is bottomed! Get it now while its VERY cheap. With the way our economy is looking right now silver should be at $30 an ounce.

anyways wondering if anyone has anything interesting to say.

I think i also forgot to mention.... THE BAIL OUT PLAN! Im honestly sick of it though. Too much talk about it. But whose a little nervous that the market is just tanking since it passed the house vote? A little unnerving. But its the long run that really counts...haha thats hard to say being a day trader.

reply to post by ghostlandseller


silver isn't bottomed.....the paper representation of silver stored for you in some vault probably hasn't even bottomed yet. there's been a disconnect between the price of the actual physical gold and the paper commodity...which is what that 10 or 11 dollars you see quoted is.
empty promises on paper just isn't worth what it used to be. and well, if you have some of those peices of paper, try cashing them in for the actual silver or gold. you just might find that the transaction fee will bring the cost of your silver up to around...ohhh.....$16-$20 an once.

I got a feeling that these companies that are storing your silver for you will be in the same position as the banks if there's a run for the silver or the gold. there just isn't enough to go around, and well.....anyone else notice....it's hard to find. ebay has about the best selection. apmex had a little the last time I looked, but well...good luck buying it at that 10 or 11 dollars. someone is swooping in and buying it up as soon as it becomes availabe.....
maybe a sign that they plan on switching over to something based on silver or gold?? don't know. maybe it's a sign that people just aren't trusting the paper anymore and are scooping it up. but....something just isn't meshing in the silver and gold markets. whatever yous do, if you have a little silver or gold laying around, don't let anyone talk you into selling it for under $15!!

thats a good point. However i think were experiencing a run on gold and silver right now. A lot of these gold and silver holding companies are very low or completely out of their silver and gold reserves. Which is why i think is the difference between now where there is a 40% premium in trying to buy silver on ebay or at market price compared to three months ago when there wasn't a gold/silver run. you could buy it on ebay for the actual market price.

Could just add more to the whole mess. Seems like everything is being sucked into this finance crisis, except the cereal sector. haha