why does america the most open society in the world never get the benifit of the doubt?

It seems these days that everything our gov. or our contry trys to do it gets kicked it the teeth for it! I for one get alttle tired of our motives on everthing being called into question. Every well considered and debated position we take being demonized. Why do other nations such as china or cuba or syria... or any number of countries that have no public debate no elections, no free press get a free pass on their motives and policies? I seems so often the case that every story you read is somehow turned into a kick the U.S. propaganda peice. It's almost thanks giving. I have been thinking about what the world would have been like if there never was an america. A CHILLING THOUGHT! The colonial powers of europe Controling the entire western hemisphere. The communist dictatorships inslaving most of what is the free world. Or would it be the Emperial Japan and the Natzi's having at it for for world domination. Would it be the religion of Islam forcing it's idiology on everyone. It could be any number of things. One thing I am certain of WITHOUT AMERICA IN IT, THE WORLD WOULD NOT BE A BETTER PLACE!!

[edit on 20-11-2007 by rockets red glare]

[edit on 20-11-2007 by rockets red glare]

""One thing I am certain of WITHOUT AMERICA IN IT, THE WORLD WOULD NOT BE A BETTER PLACE!!""
How can you say that...do you have a Chrystal bowl that make you see in a parallel universe where the world is in total chaos because America doesn't exist there?


Kacou

reply to post by kacou


as a matter of fact i do.

reply to post by rockets red glare


My question will amply a broad answer then " yes I do".
Lets kip both head and body on the ground and tell me if you please what make you think that the world will be a worst place with out America.
Lets never forget that America is a product of the best and the worst of what Europe and other continents have shovelled in to one country.

Kacou.

You should read up on our foreign policy. We have done very many heinous things. Currently we are plotting a coup d'etat in Venezuela, in fact...

reply to post by Raoul Duke


I thought that already happened. You mean there's a new one in the works? Gosh!

That's a good question, rockets.

Probably a better question would be:

How can anyone - after witnessing the propensity for violence, deceit, hatred, and nastiness that human beings have - after seeing the secrecy and violence of other governments around the world, have faith in the fact that just because a purportedly democratic government exists in this country that it has the best interests of its people at heart?

Originally posted by Beachcoma

I thought that already happened. You mean there's a new one in the works? Gosh!

Yes, there's a new one in the works:

Coup D'Etat Rumblings in Venezuela
by Stephen Lendman

November 19, 2007
link to article

The Bush administration tried and failed three prior times to oust Hugo Chavez since its first aborted two-day coup attempt in April, 2002. Through FOIA requests, lawyer, activist and author Eva Golinger uncovered top secret CIA documents of US involvement that included an intricate financing scheme involving the quasi-governmental agency, National Endowment of Democracy (NED), and US Agency for International Development (USAID). The documents also showed the White House, State Department and National Security Agency had full knowledge of the scheme, had to have approved it, and there's little doubt of CIA involvement as it's always part of this kind of dirty business. What's worrying now is what went on then may be happening again in what looks like a prelude to a fourth made-in-Washington attempt to oust the Venezuelan leader that must be monitored closely as events develop.

Since he took office in February, 1999, and especially after George Bush's election, Chavez has been a US target, and this time he believes credible sources point to a plot to assassinate him. That information comes from Alimamy Bakarr Sankoh, president of the Hugo Chavez International-Foundation for Peace, Friendship & Solidarity (HCI-FPFS) in a November 11 press release. Sankoh supports Chavez as "a man of peace and flamboyant champion of human dignity (who persists in his efforts in spite of) growing US blackmail, sabotage and political blasphemy."

HCI-FPFS sources revealed the plot's code name - "Operation Cleanse Venezuela" that now may be unfolding ahead of the December 2 referendum on constitutional reforms. According to Sankoh, the scheme sounds familiar - CIA and other foreign secret service operatives (including anti-Castro terrorists) aiming to destabilize the Chavez government by using "at least three concrete subversive plans" to destroy the country's social democracy and kill Chavez.

[edit on 20-11-2007 by Raoul Duke]

reply to post by Loki


loki:The best answer I could give is that gov. is not intrisicly kind or always looking out for the best intresst of the citiznry. That Is why democracy is so crucial. Other forms of gov. do not have the mechanism to change officials and bureaucrats that are corrupt openly do not have the peoples best intrest s their priority. No gov. is pertfect this we know. But, I must believe that the more transparent gov. is and the more input that the citizenry have the better the gov. will be and more responsive to the concerns of the governed.

I don't want to start spewing political mumbo jumbo, as it's off topic here, but I don't believe that we have the powers intended to us by our founding fathers, either.

Yes, we vote. Does it really make a difference, or is our ineffective two-party system letting down our country? The voices of the few dissidents and smaller groups of people with different thinking are not being heard, and the two big guys are crushing everyone, sort of like wal-mart and target are destroying everyone in retail.

From the back seat here in Canada my opinion on this subject is the U.S. is a "do as I say not as I do" type of Country. Other countries who don't do what the U.S. says run into trouble. Having power to be powerful does not empower.

reply to post by Loki


maybe someday someone will come up with a better system. beats me. till then i have to suport the system of a repesentitive republic.

reply to post by Rhain

you haved proved my original point. so much spycho babble! was it not Emperial Japan forcing itself on others in asia and the Pacific, yes. In europe the the natzi's. following them the Communist soviets. In western asia the chinese and russians. You are so selective in your condimnation it's rediculous. You did not, I notice, bother to mention other powerfull nations that project power and influence and what their motivations may be or how they arrive at the desisions the make as their national policy. You did not bother to mention what our motivations are when we decide what nations policies we suport or not! free expresson, free press, human rights... our motivations are clear.

[edit on 20-11-2007 by rockets red glare]

reply to post by Rhain


Here, Here I so agree. This country is run by an industrial military complex that cares not for the people of their country but rather the amount of money in their wallets. And if you don't do what we say we'll bomb the hell out of your country and kill your women and children. I mean after all it's what we imperialist do best.
Might does not make right. We no longer have representative Govt. and this is obvious by the fact that nothing is being done to improve our situation. All of our money is being spent to forward the agenda of a few families here in America, England and a few others.
The biggest obstacle to world peace and stability the American people are facing and indeed the entire world is facing is coming from right here in America.
This is NOT a Democratic thing or a Republican thing. This is an EVIL thing that calls itself both Democrat and Republican.
Most of us here have never been without running water, electricity or food.
There will be no amount of proof that will change peoples way of thinking until this happens.
We have become a nation of Fat, Self-Absorbed hippocrites who watch 30 minutes of cooperate news every night, on our precious TELEVISIONS and thing we have a firm grasp on what's going on.
So go ahead and watch your precious TELEVISION and stuff your big fat face and continue to think you know whats happening. As for me and my wife and kids we getting the hell out of this EVIL country.

reply to post by rockets red glare


Flame 1

flame 2

flame 3

I've said this before but I'll say it again. DO NOT use the actions of generations 60+ years ago to justify what is going on today! Nothing they ever did could put a glow on YOUR halo. It things like that that makes me angry towards some Americans cause it's always "my forefather this my forefather that"... who gives #, it's new times and it should be pretty clear by now that the current generation has no comprehension what so ever when it comes making this a better world.

You say America is the most open country in the world?! Gees... that's delusional beyond belief. You have states that will preach anti-abortion. And no... it isn't murder cause we are talking about entities here with no selfawareness. Calling a fetuce a person is as mad as those people dressing up their pets and talking to them all day.
You put your faith of leadership in the hands of a guy who is a puppet for those whose only wish is to make a large amount of money on others greef.
And like Rhain said, America always comes out as "we know what's right". Even the few Americans I've met have always had that attitude when discussing anything...

Take this with you next time you travel. Everytime an American sits and puts on his wisehat, a European is sitting silently thinking "oh shut up shut up shut up" while smiling politely.

[edit on 20/11/07 by flice]

reply to post by flice


maybe thats why wherever a europen goes and sits down some one is thinking 'eurotrash'

reply to post by rockets red glare


Nice oneliner hehe... How's the economy over there these days by the way?

All I'm saying that you might have been great and all that at one point in time. But if you start acting like # towards the rest of the world then why should we still have faith in you guys?
If you live in an open society then it is guranteed that YOU elect your offcials and therefore can be held to account for what they might do. Otherwise don't vote for them for crist sake!

reply to post by mek12


I am just curious:
Which country would you go if you could pick any?
By the way, I said the same thing about my country when I was younger which was France.

Kacou

At least in Europe we have an education system that enables us to be able to spell, punctuate and form coherent sentences and arguments.....

reply to post by rockets red glare


Rocket, you seem like a very patriotic individual. You stand up for your country and I must commend you for that.

Your fighting a losing battle with this post. a majority of ATS posters (imho) lean waaay left, therefore they are anti-american. It's the "in thing" with their movement. They hate Bush (this may not be a bad call on their part!), and subsequently hate America.

These same posters were quite mum when their boy Clinton was bombing Kosovo. That's another thread and I digress.

Here's my take for what it's worth. Maybe I'll deflect some of the flame for you.

In all aspects of our lives their must be leadership and accountability. Every corporation has someone who leads it. Not all of the employees will agree with all the decisions but that's how it works. The world is not so terribly different. The U.S. is the leader and does impose it's will, morals, and beliefs upon others.

If not the US then what country would your attackers on this thread propose to lead the world? Remember, it'll need to be a country with huge resources as this job weighs heavy on the citizenry.

I guess they want a free for all. A world in which everyone does as they please and evil America and other government bodies have no influence.

OK Let's do that. When tough times hit and you have a natural disaster, need a technological advance, need guidance on governance, need to stave off an enemy, need food to feed you people, need resources, need , need , need. Don't call us cause' we're too evil and bad for your pallet.

I truly wish we could try this for a year to shut these morons up.

Becker - out



[edit on 20-11-2007 by Becker44]