9/11: A modern Vulcanalia?

I’ve been doing some digging around for a new article I’m writing and came across some information that will interest those of you who look upon 9/11 as some sort of ritual or sacrifice.

I’ve been looking into 9/11 Commission member, Jamie Gorelick, who many thought ought to have recused herself because of her infamous ‘Wall’ memo.

My meandering has led me to a late 1998 John F Kennedy School of Government study entitled, Catastrophic Terrorism: Elements of a National Policy, a project led by none other than Philip Zelikow, who went on to become the 9/11 Commission’s Executive Director.

Jamie Gorelick is one of the study’s contributors, as is Robert Zoellick. Now Zoellick was a member of a foreign policy advisory team known as The Vulcans, which was assembled to brief George W Bush prior to the 2000 U.S. presidential election. Another member of The Vulcans was Condoleeza Rice, who co-wrote ‘Germany Unified and Europe Transformed: A Study in Statecraft’ with Philip Zelikow in 1995.

The Vulcans were named, ostensibly, after The Vulcan statue in Birmingham, Alabama where Rice lived. But anyone familiar with Roman mythology will also know that Vulcan was the Roman god of fire and volcanoes.

Now, whilst Vulcan was associated with the constructive use of fire in metalworking, he was more closely associated with fire’s destructive capacity. The Romans sought to placate him during a festival called Vulcanalia, which occurred on August 23rd, a time when the summer heat often caused fires to break out in crop fields and granaries.

This directly from Wikipedia

During the festival bonfires were created in honour of the god, into which live fish or small animals were thrown as a sacrifice, to be consumed in the place of humans. Vulcan was among the gods placated after the Great Fire of Rome in AD 64. In response to the same fire, Domitian (emperor 81–96) established a new altar to Vulcan on the Quirinal Hill.

Interesting, huh?

Yes it is VERY interesting. I came up with this too. God of Fire. I interepreted as a human sacrifice of little animals(fish). I'm amazed this hasn't got more talk about it.

Originally posted by flamingo99
I'm amazed this hasn't got more talk about it.

I'm not - it's too 'woolly' for most.

But now you've commented, I wonder whether you can answer a question about Vulcanalia.

If the festival was celebrated on August 23rd in Roman times, what date would it be celebrated now, given all the changes to the calendar?

It would be something if the answer to this turned out to be September 11th, but I don't think it could be.

The Romans sought to placate him during a festival called Vulcanalia, which occurred on August 23rd, a time when the summer heat often caused fires to break out in crop fields and granaries.

I am surprised the source doesn't mention the most spectacular "feast" of Vulcanalia there ever was: the eruption of Vesuvius - a volcano, of course - on the very day of the Vulcanalia of 79 AD.

It was perfectly natural, of course; but the coincidence of dates is enough to give anyone the creeps.

That is because they would have to reseach places such as Bohemian Grove meeting place of the Establishment shadow government. Few are willing to venture into those studies. Most will not even venture into a study of Yale's Skull and Bones. Most are inclined to believe, without researching, what researchers write is untrue. They do not research it themselves, but automatically believe it to be untrue.

We are seeing the same effect concerning the "official" report. Many do not research 9/11. Choosing, instead, to accept the "official", NIST, and 9/11 Commission reports at face value.

[edit on 23-12-2007 by OrionStars]

The more than mere coincidental part is that the falling of the towers, with the pyroclastic explosion of debris, exactly resembled the eruption of a volcano.

www.geo.mtu.edu...

The flows even more exacting resemble a strongly erupted volcanic pyroclastic flow, as the debris begins to drop and surround a volcano, as it did exactly the same way over the WTC towers as they were dropping.

Interesting analogy with the volcano/eruption/sacrifice. The collapse of the twin towers certainly in many ways looks like an volcano erupting. Plenty of people died and those who made it happened certainly were looking to kill.

Does anyone know the answer to the question I posed earlier about the dates?

To re-state it: if the festival of Vulcanalia was celebrated back in Roman times in August 23rd, what date would it be celebrated today, given that the calendar has changed.

For example, when the Gregorian calendar was introduced in Britain in 1752, we lost 11 days. One day the date was September 2nd and the next, September 14th. This calendar replaced the Julian calendar, which in turn replaced the Roman calendar in 45BC.

So, if the original festival date was set according to the Roman calendar, how far will the date have shifted by the time the Gregorian calendar was introduced?

Is it possible that the original date of August 23rd, according to the Roman calendar, could possibly be September 11th according to the Gregorian calendar?

I'm not, as a rule, normally interested in any of the ritualiistic, numerological, or folding dollar bills theories often associated with 9/11, but I do find the business of a group of Presidential advisors being named Vulcans intriguing, for the reasons set out in the OP.

From this list of roman dates

August 24th = September 11th.

BUT...the roman calendar was changed many times and politically influence.

reply to post by Legalizer

Thank you for posting that link.

I really don't know what to make of this. I am usually so anti these kinds of theories that now, faced with this accumulating weight of 'coincidence', I'm still looking for a way out.

So, to summarise:

• Some of Bush's key advisors belonged to a group called The Vulcans
  
• The Roman God, Vulcan, was associated with volcanoes and, as a smith (note: working with molten metals) both the benficial and destructive capacity of fire
  
• The Romans appeased Vulcan with a bonfire ritual, involving the sacrifice of fish and small animals
  
• The Roman date of this festival was August 23rd
  
• The Roman date of August 23rd translates into a modern date of September 10th (with a possible margin of error)
  
• The collapses of the twin towers have been likened in appearance to the pyroclastic flows associated with erupting volcanoes

Is this all just coincidental?

reply to post by coughymachine


Here is a good Gregorian/Julian calendar converter program

When you input the Gregorian date of 9/11/2001, the Julian date is August 29.

The Julian calendar was introduced in 43 BC and to calculate a specific date before that time is quite a feat, as the pre-Julian calendar is exceedingly complex.

Edit to add: I think the coincidence is generalized; i.e., the reference to Vulcan is more allusive, making reference in general terms to the god's destructive force in relation to this groups' view of their own powers. The date falling into place would be a nice "proof" but not essential.

Though I don't personally believe in it, I'd looked at numerology in relation to 9/11 in this thread, as I do believe that others believe in it quite strongly: Numerology 9/11, or IX XI if you will.

The numerous "coincidences" enumerated there are remarkable; do take a look.

[edit on 24-12-2007 by gottago]

reply to post by gottago

Thanks gottago.

I have to shoot out to do my last minute man-thing Christmas dash, so can't give the link the attention it deserves. But one quick question, if you know of the top of your head. Can it translate Roman dates to Gregorian? I see you've linked to it as a Julian to Gregorian conversion tool, but the dates will shift further when the Roman to Julian conversions are incorporated.

reply to post by coughymachine


I haven't been able to find any quick-and-dirty conversion tool for the pre-Julian calendar, which is a shame, but just reading the synopsis of the complexities of the old Roman calendar, you quite understand why. I think it would take some hours and sheets of calculations to arrive at a correct date, and that assumes you are working to convert to a specific pre-Julian date as well. What year exactly will influence the actual date calculated, to my understanding. So doubtless there is a historical pre-Julian date that gives an exact match, but most would be hard-pressed to calculate it.

Hope this helps, and good luck with your shopping; I'm about to do the same, lol.

reply to post by gottago

I agree. Unless you're a bit of an expert in the field, I think it would be futile to even try to convert a Roman date into a Gregorian one. Too much room for error.

That leaves us with the conversion table Legalizer linked to earlier. In this table, August 23rd (Roman) becomes September 10th (Gregorian).

I want to reject all of this out of hand but I'm finding it hard to do.

reply to post by coughymachine


Unless someone has designed a computer program to compare the dates, it would be a mammoth task to manually do that from August 23 (some report 24 instead) 79 to September 11, 2001.

However, I did find it interesting the History Channel saw fit to make the comparsion of August, 79, to September 11, 2001.

www.nytimes.com...

"Over the next four weeks the only way to avoid seeing images of United Airlines Flight 175 plough into the south tower or office workers running through the streets of Manhattan coated in plaster, dust and blood is to turn off the television. Katie Couric intends to observe the anniversary and her debut as the “CBS Evening News” anchor with an hourlong prime-time special, “Five Years Later: How Safe Are We?” on Sept. 6. No angle will be left alone: “American Vesuvius,” a History Channel special on Sept. 10, will compare the World Trade Center attack to the destruction of Pompeii in A.D. 79."

I do not normally refer to blogs when doing research. However, in this case it definitely paid off. One 9/11 mystery question resolved. The date was 24 not 23.

aussiethule.blogspot.com...

"Scientists validate Pompeii tragedy
Web posted August 29, 1997
Associated Press

Ancient Roman historian Pliny the Younger wrote about the eruption, saying it occurred in the afternoon of what in modern calendars would be Aug. 24, A.D. 79, or 1,918 years ago."

That means August 24, 79 would be September 11, 2001.

I wonder if that is thule as in Thule Society in the blog address. Because those conspiratorial secret society members always use the paranormal to plot their conspiracies. It is well documented Yale's Skull and Bones is the US chapter of Germany's Thule Society - Chapter 322. Antony Sutton did a validated expose on Skull and Bones in his well documented book America's Secret Establishment An Introduction to the Order of Skull and Bones.

Antony Sutton was a research fellow at the Hoover Institute. That means he has inside information on the who and how of Establishment inner circle workings.

Originally posted by OrionStars
However, I did find it interesting the History Channel saw fit to make the comparsion of August, 79, to September 11, 2001.

Interesting.

I've assumed that the date conversion tables Legalizer linked to are broadly accurate.

As for whether we use the 23rd or 24th August as the starting point, it appears we're talking about two different historical events.

I am talking about the festival of Vulcanalia, in which a bonfire and sacrificial ritual is carried out in order to appease Vulcan, Roman God of fire and metalworking. He was said to have his smithy beneath Mount Etna, just out of interest. This festival pre-dates Christ.

You are talking about the eruption of Vesuvius and the consequent destruction of Pompeii in 79 AD.

Now here's the really interesting bit.

The date of the festival of Vulcanalia (August 23rd) was set in the Roman calendar. It can be converted to September 10th in the Gregorian calendar (according to Legalizer's tables), although there is a small degree of uncertainty arising from the fact that it appears days may have been either added or subtracted at will in those times.

The date of the eruption of Vesuvius (August 24th) was set in the Julian calendar. It can be converted to September 11th in the Gregorian calendar with a very high degree of certainty.

How. Bloody. Strange. Is. That?

reply to post by coughymachine


Carlyle Group was having a celebration on 9/10 (9/11 was the scheduled meeting date in DC), if that helps in what you are comparing. That makes a difference whether or not it was the 23rd or the 24th for celebration purposes only. When people have a convention, they normally arrive the day before when coming from out-of-town and then party.

911review.org...

"9/11/2001 Carlyle Group holding annual meeting in
Washington, DC at time of WTC attack"

FEMA was conveniently in NYC on 9/10 for some type of disaster rehearsal scheduled for 9/11. Which means party time the night before for those arriving from out-of-town on 9/10.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

"FEMA was in New York the Night Before 9/11"

Then by 9/11, we had what can be described as none other than pyroclastic blasts no different than a volcano, which then makes the 24th highly relevant.

That is spooky to say the least and too coincidental to be mere coincidence.

Those facts above, among many other more revealing confirmed data, are why people have a grave problem trying to convince me that 9/11/2001 was carried out by a guerilla force, without all the resources necessary to carry out something with the magnitude of 9/11. Guerilla armies do not have the resources or capability to carry out such a well planned disaster, without help from those who do.

The Bushes and bin Ladens have had a very close personal and business relationship for a very long time. Plus, were both members of the Carlyle Group. I have found unconfirmed reports the bin Ladens "resigned" Carlyle Group membership after 9/11. But were the only people allowed by the Bush administration to fly out of the country on 9/11.

reply to post by OrionStars

I've seen a lot of numerology-type theories, which I've dismissed. The problem is that you can read pretty much anything you want into numbers and so, even if the core theories are correct, they're buried beneath a whole load of rubbish.

Similarly, I've dimissed the folding dollar bill theories. Again, I think you could origami your way to pretty much anything if you wanted to.

This business about Vulcan and Vulcanalia is a little too specific for me to dismiss as readily, as much as I'm inclined to want to. We all know that many of our leaders are very familiar with secret societies and their rituals. Well, Vulcanalia is exactly the sort of ritual I can imagine them being in to.

I need to do a bit more digging around. The problem with that is, whereas the discovery came out of the blue initially, now I'm going to go looking for links. I wonder whether I'm going to fall into the 'numerology' trap of seeing things that maybe aren't really there.

reply to post by coughymachine


Since I spend a great deal of time doing research, and having to remain objective doing that research, I can say it is all too easy to be swayed sometimes. At that point, I have to take a breather and then re-evaluate. I will do that as much as it takes to regain objectivity.

I also have to locate at least some validated information that fits with high probably circumstantial evidence. That is not always easy to do. I never throw out anything until I am certain that even the most minimal detail does not fit somewhere in logical sequence.