Tunguska solved?

Tungusk solved?

news.aol.com

(June 26) - In late June of 1908, a fireball exploded above the remote Russian forests of Tunguska, Siberia, flattening more than 800 square miles of trees. Researchers think a meteor was responsible for the devastation, but neither its fragments nor any impact craters have been discovered.

(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 6/26/2007 by redseal]

5 miles away from the epicenter?? Seems fishy to me.

news.aol.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I see no problem with an impact crater five miles from the epicentre. If the object exploded at the epicentre it would explain the blast pattern. The remaining mass could continue to the impact site.

Blast modelling of Tunguska shows an object coming in at 30 degrees. If exploration of the lake shows that it was caused by a mass coming in at the same (or near - explosion remember) angle, I would expect the case to be laid to rest.

Originally posted by hippichick
I see no problem with an impact crater five miles from the epicentre. If the object exploded at the epicentre it would explain the blast pattern. The remaining mass could continue to the impact site.

So you think kind of like an above ground explosion at the epicenter and fragmnts landed in the lake 5 miles away?? I guess that would make sense.

30 degree angle of a comet expoding so far above the surace. at explosion the fragments wouldnt carry the same angle pattern as the original object, that could explain the 5 mile difference!

Thanks, never even thought of it like that!

Crater Could Solve 1908 Tunguska Meteor Mystery , but I would like to think it would be pleasant to find a UFO at the bottom of the lake. That would be just be the ultimate disclosure. Not to mention, abunch of fun to see what the media would do. Again, I think that would just be wishful thinking. Just a fun idea really.

The Peace of God to all that belong to the light,
Dear Readers,

If you still dont know about me or read any of my threads previously, I am a psychic and also a scientist that usually publish in the forum of predictions & prophecies at ATS and in dreams-personal predictions at BTS.

On 2007 my threads exhibited an unusual high level of accuracy in my predictions.

You can chk my profile at:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


My personal interest about the explosion of Tunguska of 1908 is primarly in its possible connection with the extraordinary psychic powers of the Chamans of that region of Siberia and particularly in the ones of Gregori E. Rasputin, the famous personage that from a common peasant became the most poserful adviser of the Tsar Nicholas II in the 1910's.


Rasputin remains as the simbol of all the great contradictions of the Russian society of that epoch, the last of the empire, some type of an encarnation of the social drama of a great nation ruled by the so powerful nobility, the richest and more powerful in the world, living in excess and decadency of ethical values and the contrast with respect to the so low level of life of millions of plebian peasants that were the majority of the Russians in that epoch whose faith in God was almost their only support.

Let us explore he multiple unsolved enigmas that still surround the life of the sorcerer of Siberia & what connection can have with the strange phenomenon occured in Tunguska for the same epoch:

How this appearant ignorant peasant developed the tremendous hypnotic powers that gave him the control of the court life of St Petersburg?

Could the Tunguska explosion have some relationship with the misterious source of those extraordinarly skills?

What extrange presence remains in the woods of Siberia since ancient times, was it the trully origin of this misterious explosion that still deffy many scientific explanations?

Is it true the claim that Evenkia was in some way a place of contact or an astral portal between the chamans and Alien civilizations?

Could this incredible Explosion be the result of the accident that an alien spacecraft, possible moved with nuclear fuel, that happend in that isolated region?

It was really an asteroid or comet impacting the earth the cause of the explosion? if that was the case where are the material rests or evidences of this celestial body?

There is any connection between this incident and the fabled 'chuchunaa' creature that has been viewed through centuries in that same part of the Taiga for by many explorers ?

Gregori E. Rasputin was in many aspects , as he himself claimed an archtype of the Imperial Russia, is the only way to understand that his death, predicted by him, started the events that finally finish a so Poweful Christian Empire and transform it in the most atheist tyranny of all the times.

The very well known mystic connection between his personal life and the future of Russia, something that is in part the dogma of the separated Orthodox sects(Khlysty ) in which he studied during years at the Ural mountains.

This Archtypic Man was chosen by God to show to the Emperor all the weaknesses and defects of his regime, a warning that unfortunately he didn't understand on time.

If you want to know the answers of this questions and more about Rasputin and my prediction about him, pls chk my threas about him at:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

your friend,

The Angel of lightness




[edit on 6/15/2008 by The angel of light]

Originally posted by The angel of light
If you still dont know about me or read any of my threads previously, I am a psychic and also a scientist that usually publish in the forum of predictions & prophecies at ATS and in dreams-personal predictions at BTS

No you're not. You're neither a scientist or a psychic. If you were a scientist you'd do your research and understand that psychics contradict science. You're confused.

sci·ence
1. a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
2. systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.

Psychic
outside of natural or scientific knowledge; spiritual.
sensitive to influences or forces of a nonphysical or supernatural nature.

As I told you before: You're inferring logic to and from possible scenerios and then applying scientific data that you find to those scenerios. There is nothing psychic about that.

Anyway, moving on.

I find this story to personally be somewhat iffy. I'd like to see how many fragments and readings turn up in the study and examination of other lakes and bodies of water around the world, or if it is limited only to this one.

I can see on one side of the coin how the object's shell could have exploded yet an inner concentration kept on roughly the same path. However if the entire object exploded there should be abundant debris and readings throughout the entire area. I'd approximate at least a 5 mile circumfrence and 2.5 mile radius of dense concentration and anywhere from 10-20 mile circumfrence with 5-10 mile radius of substantial debris. Coming in at 30 degrees and at such a high velocity debris could be thrown as far as 100+ miles away with ease. That is of course, if we're lead to believe the accusations of the story.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

i wonder if Guiseppe Longo, Physicist, U of Bologna
got financing for his 2008 expedition to that lake Cheko,
his pet idea that it is a lake created by the 1908 tunguska event


I seen a PBS or a History Channel program on the tunguska explosion,
which, if i recall correctly, blew itself up in the atmosphere and the physics of the blast/trajectory/etc made a butterfly pattern of devestation.
The known phsics model has eliminated any fragments of the object any larger than grains of sand...
so the 30 foot meteor thats buried down below the lake @ ~10 meters
was likely from another event in the past, not tunguska of 1908.

its believed that other meteors & meteorites from the same meteor swarm
which follows that path (of the tunguska object) are strewn all across the northern hemisphere...

i would propose that the Canadian swarm which triggered the ice sheet melt was part of that same pre-tunguska swarm....
much like the perisedes, the enids, and the various meteor showers wer orbit into each year....


look up the info for yourselves, i know it exists, it only needs a clever person to connect the dots...& that could be you

I was wondering how much a meteorite that size would be worth, so I did a search and found this interesting tidbit:

Despite what we see in the movies it is a surprising fact that meteorites are not burning, or even hot when they land upon the Earth. The glowing fireballs we see in the night sky are caused by atmospheric pressure and friction. Meteors stop ablating (burning) approximately seven miles above our planet's surface, then fall in what is known as "dark flight," according to the normal pull of gravity. It is very cold at an altitude of seven miles, so meteorites cool quickly as they plummet towards the Earth. There has never been a documented case of a burning, or even hot, meteorite landing upon the Earth.

www.aerolite.org...

If this is true what would cause the thing to explode?

Oh, and BTW the meteorite could be worth $100s or even $1000s of dollars a gram...so, ya, thing's worth a whole lot of money for whoever might want to mine it up.

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

Posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
No you're not. You're neither a scientist or a psychic. If you were a scientist you'd do your research and understand that psychics contradict science. You're confused.

Dear Reader,

I think the one that is really very confused are you but of course that depends on your own mentallity, or the one of the author of that dictionary you read, that I think does not allow to see that the boundaries between the academic disciplines and the three great sources of knowledge: Philosophy, Religion and Science are not defined in the so rigid way you claim.

If that would be the case there has not been opportunity to exist for the Parapsicology that is a modern Science incharged of the study of all the paranormal pheonomenon.

Science has two major lines of research and knowledge my friend:

- The Aristotelic one that follows that privileges the observation as the only source of knowledge, approach that is very used in natural sciences, that was exhaustived explored in the XX century. I think that is the one that you refered in your so dared reply.

- The Platonic one, that found all his work in the pure reasoning, in other words it claims that only the reason can reach the actual knowledge of the things since any that can be detected by the senses is mere appearance, and the appearance usually deceives. This is the way of Mathematics by excelence.

As Igor Shafarevich, a Mystic but also famous Russian Algebraic Geometer, said:

"Mathematicians don't make Mathematics, they are instrument for mathematics to make itself. This strange sounding theory is supported by many instances of repeated or simultanous discovery."

Igor Shafarevich

Is it possible to find a more esoteric way to describe the advance of the Science of Sciences?

If you want to know more about this concept pls visit the following link:

books.google.com... #PPA85,M1

By the way I suggest you also to give a glance to the interesting article:

Russian Religious Mystics and French
Rationalists: Mathematics, 1900–1930
by Loren Graham and Jean-Michel Kantor

available in the web at: www.amacad.org...

With those readings I think you can expand your own knowledge about the History of Mathematics to understand that the paradigms that you have of Knowledge are certainly so rigid and relatively false.

If you don't know Isaac Newton, the father of the modern Physcis, was a famous Alchemyst, you can verify that by watching the nice documentary of Nova about that topic, look at it in the PBS website.

Also let me tell to you that Rene Descartes and Blas Pascal were both active members of the Rosacrusian Mystic Secret Societes of their epoch.

To show you how close has been mysthics and esoterism with mathematics we must started with the trips of Archimedes to Egypt and the Secret Society that Pithagoras leaded in ancient Greece.

Your comments remind me How attonished was for the Scientific community only few years ago the attitude of Dr Gregori Perelman, the enigmatic Russia Mathematician of the University of St Petersburg that finally successfully solved the Poincare Conjeture, a so complex challlange in that discipline for more than a century.

But it was more the surprise when this same personage, that has a very Rasputian look, decided to reject the famous Field Medal and the European mathematical society prize.

If you are not familiar with this business pls chk the Article of New York times:

Ideas & Trends
The Math Was Complex, the Intentions, Strikingly Simple
By GEORGE JOHNSON
Published: August 27, 2006

www.nytimes.com...

or

Russian mathematician announces proof of celebrated Poincaré Conjecture
By Alex Lefebvre

www.wsws.org...

The surprise perhaps roots in the fact that for many western observers it is still a huge mystery the strange traditional relationship that has in Russia the Mathematical science with the Mysticism and the esoterism, a possible continuation of the Pithagoric tradition that Russia inherit from ancient Greeks and Bizantines.

Your friend,

thanks for your atention, also for to express your doubts in a so sincere way.

The Angel of lightness

"Imagination is more important than Knowledge."

Albert Einstein

“If I have seen farther than others, it is because I was standing on the shoulders of giants.”

Isaac Newton

Again it is open my invitation to visit my thread about these subjects, there is a lot that you can learn over there, chk it at:

www.abovetopsecret.com...





[edit on 6/15/2008 by The angel of light]

...said Giuseppe Longo, a physicist at the University of Bologna...

You're kidding me right? I think he's full of it. All these years, all these expeditions, and they're just finding a crater now?! Don't think so.

[what would really be cool if they found some sort of exotic matter in crater bed like some new alloy or maybe some of the so callred dark matter we keep hearing about

Actually .. the article states virtually no new or insightful information.

But thats how it has been for the Press Release Scientists for the last decade or so...

Anyhow..

A very good grasp and very plausible explanation for Tunguska can be found in the following.

Tunguska- Fire in the Sky

Tunguska an explination that works


The following two links I bring up because St Udio mentioned the Tunguska object path in the northern hemisphere.


Related - Chicago Fire and the Comet

Chicago Fiire and the Comet 2


Enjoy... discuss.

Originally posted by The angel of light
I think the one that is really very confused are you but of course that depends on your own mentallity that I think does not allow you to see that the boundaries between the academic disciplines and the three great sources of knowledge: Philosophy, Religion and Science are not defined in the so rigid way you claim.

Religion isn't a source of irrefutable knowlege, it's a source of ignorance, and the knowledge of ignorance is intangible and in effect not relevant knowledge at all relative to the physical existence.

If that would be the case there has not been opportunity to exist for the Parapsicology that is a modern Science incharged of the study of all the paranormal pheonomenon.

Parapsychology is biased by first admitting such exists before proper examination and then approaching the subject to be consisting of psychic ability. Also, so far none of these said interactions have ever been witnessed under a controlled environment by scientists to be anything more than delusions and illusions of a mind that is ignorant of science and thusly fools itself into believing that it is causing things to happen. Psychic ability = delusional insanity. Sitting around and reading news articles and making predictions about what may or may not happen is not psychic. Go lock yourself up in a room for 5 years and then come out and tell us what's going to happen.

Science has two major lines of research and knowledge my friend:

I'm not your friend as I said before. My science is logical and scientific. My science deals with evidence and observation, not invisible and unknowable deceptions. My logic aggregates and induces science, observability and experimentation of the physical world, that which is all there is and understands this physical world.

"Mathematicians don't make Mathematics, they are instrument for mathematics to make itself. This strange sounding theory is supported by many instances of repeated or simultanous discovery."

And? This has nothing to do with you claiming to be a "psychic scientist" .

Watch, I can do it too. Tell me how it applies at all.

We are the universe and the universe has always been the way that it is. Discovering the speed of light is not a Human creation of something new, it's only a realizing of something eternal.

Is it possible to find a more esoteric way to describe the advance of the Science of Sciences?

And this has to do with... what?

With those readings I think you can expand your own knowledge about the History of Mathematics to understand that the paradigms that you have of Knowledge are certainly so rigid and relatively false.

Seriously, I don't ever use curse words or acronyms for them.. but WTF? Who was talking about mathematics? How can you jump to the judgement and conclusions of my mathematic skills and my knowledge of them? HINT: YOU CAN'T. You're making assumptions! This shows how rigid and false your knowledge is of me.

Also let me tell to you that Rene Descartes and Blas Pascal were both active members of the Rosacrusian Mystic Secret Societes of their epoch.

And? Lol... I think therefore I am.... I am, therefore I think. Thought is really an illusion. You are only a reaction of your world and your environment and everyone elses "thoughts and choices". In essence, when all combined, this is nothing more than a thoughtless interaction of forces.

Isaac Newton, the Father of modern physics...

And?

To show you how close has been mysthics and esoterism with mathematics we must started with the trips of Archimedes to Egypt and the Secret Society that Pithagoras leaded in ancient Greece.

And? None of this is proving to me that you are a "psychic scientist" lol. You're just quoting things that I already know about people of the past and about their life styles, at a time when science was less evolved and mysticism and illogical religious incantatory was the in thing; in fact to not take part in it put you certainly to death!

Your comments remind me How attonished was for the Scientific community only few years ago the attitude of Dr Gregori Perelman, the enigmatic Russia Mathematician of the University of St Petersburg that finally successfully solved the Poincare Conjeture, a so complex challlange in that discipline for more than a century.

WTF? How do my comments remind you of this?

But it was more the surprise when this same personage, that has a very Rasputian look, decided to reject the famous Field Medal and the European mathematical society prize.

OMG, I'm dying of laughter. Are you serious right now? What does the poincare conjecture and his denial of the prizes have to do you being a confused Human being?

The surprise perhaps roots in the fact that for many western observers it is still a huge mystery the strange traditional relationship that has in Russia the Mathematical science with the Mysticism and the esoterism, a possible continuation of the Pithagoric tradition that Russia inherit from ancient Greeks and Bizantines.

So you're using the solving of the poincare conjecture as evidence that you are psychic scientist? Sorry, but is any one else reading this? Did I miss something?

Also you're jumping to your own opinions about a mathematician from Russia and the "possible" continuation of mystic tradition, with no evidence. Do you know what means? Absolutely nothing. Being that you're a psychic and all, or telepathic, w/e your deal is. You should know these things without speculation.

Furthermore, Dr. Perelman is not a psychic nor did he ever claim to be.

Your friend,

You're not my friend you deceptive manipulator.

"Imagination is more important than Knowledge."
Albert Einstein

Actually what Einstein meant by this is to not lose your pure logic to predisposed dogma. For example the knowledge that you are giving me I could just take at face value and accept, but upon using further examination I have learned that you are irrational and distorted.

“If I have seen farther than others, it is because I was standing on the shoulders of giants.”
Isaac Newton

Oh great, another quote. Are you supposing that this quote by newton in some way supports your claims of psychic ability?

Again it is open my invitation to visit my thread about these subjects, there is a lot that you can learn over there, chk it at:

I've visited your threads in the past. My synopsis of them is the same as it's always been.

You take a story or a case that is currently unsolved and you begin talking about possible scenerios that caused these events to happen, you state multiple scenerios, then you cover your tracks by doubting yourself and your assertions. Then, when and where convenient you take a news article and place it in the midst of your predictions.

Anyway, I'll go to your threads and discuss this from now on. It's really a non issue. Anyone that uses the invisible and unknowable as absolute certainty and exaltation is a deceiver.

posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Religion isn't a source of irrefutable knowlege, it's a source of ignorance, and the knowledge of ignorance is intangible and in effect not relevant knowledge at all relative to the physical existence.

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


Sir,

I think you need to only to expand your concious to change your so rigid and close mind paradigms about what is knowledge really but also about what is the actual relationship between the different levels of the culture, the ones that for thousands of years have built our civilization and others.

I would suggest You to take a good course of Science and Technology History to know that without the preservation of a so precious part of all the works in Philosophy, mathematics, physics, biology and other sciences of the Ancient Greeks in the Christian Medieval Abbeys of Europe, the school of translators of Seville , and the Islamic Mesquites of North Africa probably we would be again trying to invent the wheel.

Without the respect and devotion to the study, to the wisdom and to the research that was shown by historical figures like St Albert Magnus, St Thomas Aquinas, St Alfonso (king of Castile), Leonardo Da Vinci, Johannes kepler, Nicholas Copernicus, among many other Christian scientists of the previous epochs, our Science of Technology of XX century never was developed.

Now I realize that Your personal fight is against Religion, that you condemn as the worst enemy of the progress, but let me tell you that the principal one is the ignorance, that is a completly different thing, and more over the Intolerance and fanatism, that it does not matter if it is Catholic, protestant, islamic, Nazi, Stalinist or Atheist, always is fatal for Science & knowledge in general.

The arrogance to believe that somebody is sat in the philosophal stone and that his points of view are absolute Truths is the one that has damaged more the Culture and civilization:

That is precisely the your attitude now, you are the living example of the people that slow or stop the advance of the truth with prejudges, that decides to manage his convictions though personal feelings, hates and loves, and not through pure logic & objectivity.

Your opinions reveal a still superficial culture, lack of deep study of the way in which the Science actually evoluted, plus so dared generalizations about the relationship between religion & science, and a personal Atheist Dogma that does not have anything to do with the spirit of an objective research of the serious Scientists.

If you are here to confront Aristoteles against Plato, to condemn the disciplines that are not based only on experimentation or observation like the ones that are built through the pure reasoning, as Mathematics for instance, I should prefer to don't take part of such unuseful discussion, I am so sorry but it would be like to be part of a so sad show of pittyful ignorance.

By the way the Topic here is what happend in Tunguska on 1908, any theory or hypothesis that help to understand that mystery must be welcome, is part of the discussion, you can share it or not, but I dont think is valid to disqualify a person only for that.

I only exposed here one more point of view that nobody previoulsy have shown, that is not reason for personal attacks.

thanks,

The Angel of lightness

We have to cure ourselves of the itch for absolute knowledge and power. We have to close the distance between the push-button order and the human act. We have to touch people

Einstein was a man who could ask immensely simple questions. And what his work showed is that when the answers are simple too, then you can hear God thinking.

Quotes of Jacob Bronowski, Phd, Biologist & Phycisist

I believe in Spinoza's God, Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.

I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.

The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by this kind of religious feeling, which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's image; so that there can be no church whose central teachings are based on it.

Hence it is precisely among the heretics of every age that we find men who were filled with this highest kind of religious feeling and were in many cases regarded by their contemporaries as atheists, sometimes also as saints. Looked at in this light, men like Democritus, Francis of Assisi, and Spinoza are closely akin to one another.

Quotes of Dr. Albert Einstein,

[edit on 6/16/2008 by The angel of light]

Anybody want to take a stab at what would make a cold meteorite explode? Anyone? Bueller...Bueller...Bueller...