Iran to Release 15 UK Sailors/Marines

Whilst I welcome the release, the news conference was hostile and cringe worthy.

It is now clear that the whole event was orchestrated for Iran to get world attention, to flex their muscles, and to try and sway public opinion towards a favourable position on their nuclear. He puts across a whole religious sermon, and then had a ramble about his grievances with the west. And then ended it by trying to show his loving and peaceful side, which goes against every foreign policy action implemented by his government over centuries.

He then had the cheek to awarded Medals of Honour to the commanders, who he labelled as 'brave', live in a press conference that the world would be watching. They knew the British ROE would mean that we wouldn't fight back, so it was hardly brave. Plus, if it was in Iraqi waters, then it was illegal.

His rant against the west was full of hypocrisy and factual inaccuracies.

No doubt, the largely left wing ATS will adopt him as their official spokesmen. Most of here claims to be liberal, and yet Iran represents everything Liberals despise. The only thing you share is hatred of the western elite.

Also note, to those that claim he only refers to Israel as being run by zionists, he also came up with the following line: "The mass media related to the Jews"

Nice....

Anyone that thinks of him as a "crazy man" are obviously just ignorant sheeple that conveniently only listen to western mainstream propaganda. Funny how they so easily forget/deny/ignore the crimes western governments have made... far worse than this case (which is most likely not a crime at all).

Will be interesting to see what the captives are willing to (perhaps forced) to say to the western press.

Originally posted by Souljah
So,

Despite the fact, that these marines were violating Iran territory;

Despite the fact, that this was not the first incident of this time;

Desptie the fact, that MoD faked the maps to proove the location;

Despite the fact, that MoD faked the photo, to show the GPS data;

Despite the fact, that there are numerous western supported guerrilla groups operating in Iran;

People are still not satisfied with the ending of this "Drama"?

I wonder when was the last time a Gift of this kind was given by the Coalition in their mighty War on Terror.

Anyway - let us not rejoice to quickly and firstly wait for them to really get home.

what fact?

you really don't get it do you. Deny ignorance, stop believing what you want to believe without any tangible evidence.

Originally posted by Burginthorn
Good on him for releasing them. It sure makes his image of being a crazy man hell bent on the destruction of westerners a little harder to believe. Maybe he aint so bad after all, maybe Iranians are just like everyone else too.

I don't think one can immediately draw that conclusion. The same facts can reasonably infer a cold, calculating, and conniving nature; why else would he hold them and make pretextual statements about what might happen to them?

[edit on 4/4/2007 by Togetic]

Originally posted by Navieko
Anyone that thinks of him as a "crazy man" are obviously just ignorant sheeple that conveniently only listen to western mainstream propaganda. Funny how they so easily forget/deny/ignore the crimes western governments have made... far worse than this case (which is most likely not a crime at all).

Will be interesting to see what the captives are willing to (perhaps forced) to say to the western press.

If find it disgusting that Christians in America for example are demonised for being a bit too passionate, and yet the Iranian leader gave out an half and hour long religious sermon in a news conference to the world, complete with a religious chant, and then receives no condemnation. He is far more of a religious nut, then Bush or any other world leader pretends to be.

Ahmadinejad firmly supports the Iranian state efforts at supressing freedom. They are run by religious officials, their power structure is centralised, there is evidence that they are torturing and disrupting the efforts of the political opposition, they have clear links to terrorist groups such as Hezbollah, they censor their press, they block out internet sites, they execute people for crimes, they lash gang rape victims, they indoctrinate their youths with racist lies about Jews and Christians. To me, that sounds alot worse than even America today.

Ahmadinijad has just pulled off a massive PR stunt, and most of the world has took the bait hook, line and sinker.

[edit on 4-4-2007 by Peyres]

Originally posted by Peyres
If find it disgusting that Christians in America for example are demonised for being a bit too passionate, and yet the Iranian leader gave out an half and hour long religious sermon in a news conference to the world, complete with a religious chant, and then receives no condemnation. He is far more of a religious nut, then Bush or any other world leader pretends to be.

How do you know what is 'normal' and what is 'extreme' in a part of the world, you have never even been to? What makes him a 'religious nut'? Their culture is different from yours? Ever thought that maybe you're not just calling the president a 'religious nut', but rather the majority Middle Eastern population?

But oh of course not, Fox News says otherwise. Must be true...

What if they were in Iranian waters? All Ahmadinejad wanted was an apology for trespassing. Wouldnt you give an apology to save the lives of those 15 soldiers. I think its great that he is PARDONING them. NOW, Tony Blairs plans have failed, thinking that Ahmadinejad would never release the soldiers to start a war, whats he gonna do now? I guess he will call his overseas lover and ask Georgie what to do....

Originally posted by Peyres
Ahmadinejad firmly supports the Iranian state efforts at supressing freedom. They are run by religious officials, their power structure is centralised, there is evidence that they are torturing and disrupting the efforts of the political opposition, they have clear links to terrorist groups such as Hezbollah, they censor their press, they block out internet sites, they execute people for crimes, they lash gang rape victims, they indoctrinate their youths with racist lies about Jews and Christians. To me, that sounds alot worse than even America today.

Lets just assume for a second you got all those crazy accusations from a reliable source, and not just BBC, Fox News, Sky News etc. I can come up with just as much, if not more evidence saying USA does just the same and WORSE.

And what is your reply to the rest of my post?

The fact of the matter, is that according to your fears of what the Western world is heading towards, Iran is already there.

Maybe lashing rape victims is normal in certain cultures? Maybe killing innocent people in Iraq to push the Coalition out is normal in small religious extremist circles? Yes maybe, but does that make it okay? No, should that prevent people from criticising them? No. But yes, I guess the risk of being called a bigot is too high

FNC:

Video showing Ahmadinejad smiling and shaking hands and conversing with the 15 prior to their handing over to the UK embassy.

Very strange indeed, It looks like these UK troops have just arrived for a state visit to Iran.

Let's just get those 15 home, we can figure out what's going on as soon as they are safely on UK soil.

[edit on 2007/4/4 by JacKatMtn]

I wonder if Russia's warning to the west about the consequences of attacking Iran, had anything to with USA/Britain's quick decision to negotiate the exchange of seized troops/officials.

en.rian.ru...

Unlucky, I guess the war will have to wait.

[edit on 4/4/07 by Navieko]

Any research on the matter will show that all of those accusations are true. I get my information on Iran from independent media, and from the Iranian people themselves. The Iranian people mostly hate their rulers. There is a massive opposition movement in Iran, and quite frankly, they will never even get a sniff of power.

Yes, the US isn't a liberal dream land. I haven't claimed otherwise. But why do Liberals never criticise countries like Iran? Iran is ultra-ultra-conservative.

[edit on 4-4-2007 by Peyres]

[edit on 4-4-2007 by Peyres]

Originally posted by Navieko

Originally posted by Peyres
If find it disgusting that Christians in America for example are demonised for being a bit too passionate, and yet the Iranian leader gave out an half and hour long religious sermon in a news conference to the world, complete with a religious chant, and then receives no condemnation. He is far more of a religious nut, then Bush or any other world leader pretends to be.

How do you know what is 'normal' and what is 'extreme' in a part of the world, you have never even been to? What makes him a 'religious nut'? Their culture is different from yours? Ever thought that maybe you're not just calling the president a 'religious nut', but rather the majority Middle Eastern population?

But oh of course not, Fox News says otherwise. Must be true...

I don't think that's fair to say. I am not going to defend Peyres' statements, but I am unsettled by the relationship between religion and government in that region. And I don't think that just because some such as Iran seem to use religion for propaganda purposes and as a control mechanism that the entirety of the Middle Eastern population is somehow evil or crazy. That's just an irrational statement. But I find just as irrational the use of religion that has resulted in high unemployment, international isolation, and a large population of malcontents.

That being said, my question for you is where does the interface between religion and government reach a level where it imposes on the international community? And do we have any responsibility towards the malcontents?

Originally posted by Navieko

Originally posted by Peyres
Ahmadinejad firmly supports the Iranian state efforts at supressing freedom. They are run by religious officials, their power structure is centralised, there is evidence that they are torturing and disrupting the efforts of the political opposition, they have clear links to terrorist groups such as Hezbollah, they censor their press, they block out internet sites, they execute people for crimes, they lash gang rape victims, they indoctrinate their youths with racist lies about Jews and Christians. To me, that sounds alot worse than even America today.

Lets just assume for a second you got all those crazy accusations from a reliable source, and not just BBC, Fox News, Sky News etc. I can come up with just as much, if not more evidence saying USA does just the same and WORSE.

I am curious as to what you mean. I am not going to defend the US, they've done some terrible things throughout history, but what is to be done about it? How does that apply to the current situation, and what is the solution that would fix the perceived problems with the US?

Originally posted by Navieko
I wonder if Russia's warning to the west about the consequences of attacking Iran, had anything to with USA/Britain's quick decision to negotiate the exchange of seized troops/officials.

en.rian.ru...

Unlucky, I guess the war will have to wait.

[edit on 4/4/07 by Navieko]

Eh, probably not. The exchange discussions were probably just part of your standard issue diplomacy. Russia is trying to hold back the US because they think that the US wants to colonize Iran and the greater Middle East and they see that as a threat to their supremacy in eastern Asia.

[edit on 4/4/2007 by Togetic]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Souljah
Despite the fact, that these marines were violating Iran territory;

No they weren't. Even the first statements out of Iran had their position well within Iraqi waters. FACT is .. they were illegally kidnapped from Iraqi waters. Period.

let us not rejoice to quickly and firstly wait for them to really get home

I agree. That leader in Iran is a major whack. It is wise not to get too excited until they are actually safe and in British hands.

Urrm, didnt british military also come out and say the british maps were wrong, and maniuplated?

I find it funny how bot hsay the same thing, yet they are wrong.

At the very least, the only reality is that we dont know.
Both are saying different things, both are using different maps, and both have people saying 'theyre' maps are wrong.

Sorry man, but this 'illegial' act by the iranians is about as LEGAL as the whole WOT in Iraq.

FNC reports that the 15 will leave on Thursday Iran time, so we will have to wait a few more hours.

[edit on 2007/4/4 by JacKatMtn]

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

At the very least, the only reality is that we dont know.
Both are saying different things, both are using different maps, and both have people saying 'theyre' maps are wrong.

Sorry man, but this 'illegial' act by the iranians is about as LEGAL as the whole WOT in Iraq.

I was under the impression that the position of the sailors was confirmed by Iraqi citizens, which placed them in Iraqi waters. Have they been shown to be wrong?

no it hasnt been shown to be wrong, The US, UK and Iraq (and Iran in the first place!!) all agree that the UK troops were taken from iraq waters.


Im just happy that this ordeal is over for our troops, and it didnt lead to esculation!!

I Was under the impression the maps and co-ordinates used by the british to sustain their actions were told to be false by a british military personnel.

The thing about Iraqi's saying stuff like that, is i chose neither to believe them, or ignore them.

Because they are tooo easily maniuplated by the occupying force.

I mean, on one hand youve got an iraqi saying '' no, they were in our waters '' who are under occupation by the biriths and americans.

On the other hand, you have british saying ' no we were in their waters '' who are being held by iranians.

We have british x navy saying the borders the British gvoernment are using dont exist,

and if you use google earth and look at the co-ordinates, they look closer to iran than iraq.

Not one person in this instance has any credability in my mind for me to believe them.

So I will take past experiences and go off that.

And the histroy books show us that the British and US have ventured into Iranian territory on MANY occasion.
so to assume they didnt this time, is going against the sway.