UK troops captured by Iran

Well Iran can't back down now after saying that they're going to charge the soldiers. And Britain/allies won't back down after saying that the capture was unjustified.

So either we trade the Iranian prisoners for our troops ooorrrrrr.... well I don't know how else we'd get them back.

Threatening Iran with force won't get the men back, Iran aren't going to let us think we can push them around.

Originally posted by malganis
So either we trade the Iranian prisoners for our troops ooorrrrrr.... well I don't know how else we'd get them back.

We don't hold them, America do.

So a prisoner swap is not going to happen. Removing sanctions is not going to happen either.

Originally posted by UM_Gazz

Originally posted by infinite
Regime change is in the interest of the UK, European Union and the United States. We should work together to achieve it.

Iranian leaders have said numerous times that they have thousands of "soldiers of God" in place round the world ready to retaliate against all enemies if they are attacked. Do we REALLY know what these "soldiers of God" are capable of?

If we take military action against Iran, this time people at home who are thinking of watching the strikes and war from the comfort of their homes, without any fear, may want think about where they are and if their city is a likely target for Iranian retaliation.

I'd much rather see some kind of diplomatic solution here, one that all sides can deal with. War with Iran is not a good option, and if we pursue it, you'll see why.

Interesting. You think that Iran have people planted in major world cities that they could 'activate' whenever they wanted? That would be very clever of Iran and mean that going to war with them would cause us damage at home as well. With the amount of immigration and potential home-grown terrorism in Britain, I wouldn't be surprised.

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
We must all understand that the Iranian regime is an extreme, radical Islamic group, who (like Al Qaeda) and other Islamic terrorists think nothing of death, in what they believe to be a Holy cause or war. Iranian leaders have said numerous times that they have thousands of "soldiers of God" in place round the world ready to retaliate against all enemies if they are attacked. Do we REALLY know what these "soldiers of God" are capable of?

The same was said about Iraq, Saddam and the Republican Guards of Iraq. What happened? they dropped their weapons and gave up when the troops crossed the border.

If a decision is made to launch any kind of military action against Iran, this will not be anything like Iraq. It will likely be a series of super massive air and missile strikes, coordinated strikes, US, UK, France and even Israel.

It will have to be all or nothing, we can't simply take out the regime, and the nuclear facilities, and just walk away

To aviod ground invasion, we have to simply beat them via air and missile strikes throughout Iran. We have to break them that way. It is possible enough, especially if we get the support of major EU countries. Iran could not cope with that many nations carrying out numerous airstrikes.

But its likely that the Iranian people will defeat the regime. However, if the Iranian government does stay in power, we will have to remove it.

Originally posted by infinite
The same was said about Iraq, Saddam and the Republican Guards of Iraq. What happened? they dropped their weapons and gave up when the troops crossed the border.

Have you ever looked into the numbers of Iranians in the US and UK?

I think many are underestimating the radical Islamic nature of the Shi'ite lead nation of Iran, there will be no real war with Iran, we may level their cities, military sites, destroy infrastructure, and suspect nuclear facilities, and in the end it may not really matter, looking at their religious history, and beliefs their cause in part could be martyrdom. They could believe their sacrifice is part of a religious doctrine, planned out centuries ago.

This has been going on for years now, and it may only be talk, however it would be wise to consider all possibilities. And not so quickly dismiss their rhetoric, and threats of retaliation.

A retaliation that could make the attacks of 9/11 seem like nothing.

Do we really know what exchanges happened between North Korea and Iran over the last few years, other than just Missile technology and weaponry? ... And what other than nuclear power technologies has Russia provided the Iranians?... What is the true reason so many Russians are leaving Iran now?

How deep does this rabbit hole really go?

One thing for sure now, it's just a matter of time before we find out.

To me everything, including the capture of the Britons all seems too orchestrated, as if by design, or plan.

I still believe there can be opportunity for diplomacy, if all sides can turn down the rhetoric and actually seek some peaceful solution, then again maybe it will ultimately delay the inevitable.

Just me thoughts.


[edit on 25-3-2007 by UM_Gazz]

Originally posted by infinite
To aviod ground invasion, we have to simply beat them via air and missile strikes throughout Iran. We have to break them that way. It is possible enough, especially if we get the support of major EU countries. Iran could not cope with that many nations carrying out numerous airstrikes.

But its likely that the Iranian people will defeat the regime. However, if the Iranian government does stay in power, we will have to remove it.

Dude, no war has even done anything via air power alone. we can destroy fixed installations easy enough, but attacking ground forces is far from easy. Serbia proved that as they walked out of Kosovo with 90% of their forces intact after 2-3 months of bombing. And that was intense bombing.

Can i just mention that the Allies have killed a tiny amount of Iraqi civilians. The vast majority of civilian deaths (again debatable when they have a gun in their hand) have been committed by Insurgents, terrorists, 'freedom' fighters what-ever you want to call them. A recent study has supported this.

Originally posted by UM_Gazz

Originally posted by infinite
The same was said about Iraq, Saddam and the Republican Guards of Iraq. What happened? they dropped their weapons and gave up when the troops crossed the border.

Have you ever looked into the numbers of Iranians in the US and UK?

I think many are underestimating the radical Islamic nature of the Shi'ite lead nation of Iran, there will be no real war with Iran, we may level their cities, military sites, destroy infrastructure, and suspect nuclear facilities, and in the end it may not really matter, looking at their religious history, and beliefs their cause in part could be martyrdom. They could believe their sacrifice is part of a religious doctrine, planned out centuries ago.

This has been going on for years now, and it may only be talk, however it would be wise to consider all possibilities. And not so quickly dismiss their rhetoric, and threats of retaliation.

A retaliation that could make the attacks of 9/11 seem like nothing.

Do we really know what exchanges happened between North Korea and Iran over the last few years, other than just Missile technology and weaponry? ... And what other than nuclear power technologies has Russia provided the Iranians?... What is the true reason so many Russians are leaving Iran now?

How deep does this rabbit hole really go?

One thing for sure now, it's just a matter of time before we find out.

To me everything, including the capture of the Britons all seems too orchestrated, as if by design, or plan.

I still believe there can be opportunity for diplomacy, if all sides can turn down the rhetoric and actually seek some peaceful solution, then again maybe it will ultimately delay the enevatable.

Just me thoughts.

If, like they claim, the Iranians have cells of agents in the West ready to strike targets on command, then this simply confirms that they are a terrorist supporting nation.

This threat has come from the highest personnel within the Iranian regime. They have literally admitted that they are willing to kill innocent Western Civilians using terrorists to do so.

We are already fighting a war by proxy, I think its time to now fight like men.

Originally posted by stumason
Dude, no war has even done anything via air power alone.

We broke mainland Japan with unrestricted air operations, and THAT is how you win a war via air power. You don't do it like Vietnam (what a stupid way to run a war) or the Serbia way (major limitations and self imposed restrictions) both of those were not prime examples of what air power can do. With todays technology and capabilities you can break anyone however you have to go at it in full, anything less and you're wasting your time. I do think that realistically you have a point but it's possible given someone has the guts to do it (ie. LeMay).

[edit on 25-3-2007 by WestPoint23]

[removed quote of enitre previous post]



I might add that dropping a couple of nukes did help convince them.....

Without the nukes, mainland Japan would have sat and waited for the invasion, causing untold misery for them and the Allies invading.




Quoting – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 25-3-2007 by 12m8keall2c]

Those nuclear bombs were delivered via aircraft mind you...

Anyway, the nukes had a large shock effect but the nighttime fire-bombing runs had more of an actual impact. They killed more people than both nuclear attacks combined they destroyed a much larger area and they lasted longer (in terms of putting out the fires).

However Stu, I put unrestricted in bold for a reason, all weapons are fair game (NBC included).

Hmm, yes, unrestriced Air attacks on any and all targets would be effective, but morally repugnant in this day and age. I would rather not kill anyone who we do not have to.

However, I just stated in another thread that my stance on Iran has now changed. Previously I was for diplomacy and no attacks. This latest provocation is a step too far and it is now time to face up to them.

Hit them and hit them hard.

Originally posted by stumason
Hmm, yes, unrestriced Air attacks on any and all targets would be effective, but morally repugnant in this day and age.

Yes it is considered that way, but I think that trying to make war seem anything less than what it real is (barbaric and horrible) so that it be more justifiable is also morally repugnant. It's a hard choice but if you commit yourself to war then I believe you have the responsibility to see that it ends as quickly as possible and that your goals are reached, by any means possible. It sounds harsh but go in it to win not to last...

Originally posted by UM_Gazz

Have you ever looked into the numbers of Iranians in the US and UK?

I think many are underestimating the radical Islamic nature of the Shi'ite lead nation of Iran, there will be no real war with Iran, we may level their cities, military sites, destroy infrastructure, and suspect nuclear facilities, and in the end it may not really matter, looking at their religious history, and beliefs their cause in part could be martyrdom. They could believe their sacrifice is part of a religious doctrine, planned out centuries ago.

This is a very pertinent point. I watched a documentary a few weeks ago here in the UK in which was stated the biggest single Iranian export over the last few years has been PEOPLE.

It makes you think.

Cheers,
Zep

Wonder if the Gov will detain Irainians here in the UK as retaliation towards these servicemen/women being captured. Mind you do not know if we have the capacity to police nevermind detain anyone.

Also do you think the UK gov if it came to it, would go as far as being the 2nd nation in history to use Nuclear weapons on another Soveirgn State? I dont see this happening. That would make britain look bad on the world stage would it not?

Margaret Becket is in phonecall conversations with the Iranian Foreign minister so Will see waht comes out of it...

[edit on 25-3-2007 by spencerjohnstone]

Iranian waters or not. The Britains should be release. If the Mexicans or Canadians happens to stuble upon the Americans water. I'm 100% sure the Americans will just tell them to turn back.

C'mon it was obviously a set-up. It took 6 ships to kidnap the Britains? What are six ships doing there together. They were obviously waiting to snatch someone.

Iran has other motives, it just common sense.

Espionage? What kind of BS is this? So I guess they were spying on the Iranians in the ocean, while searching on a merchant ship. If the Iranians are going to lie, they should try something else. It's rediculous.

And yea of course the Britains will admit they trespass in Iran's water. Who wouldn't with the promise of release. Haven't you heard of blackmail?

Iranian President has confirmed that they are considering their diplomatic ties with those who are pushing for them to end their nuclear activity, that includes Britain.

Britain has now told Iranian to free the troops before this "gets more serious".

Someone brought up a point that i've been thinking about for a while and was going to start a discussion about but never got round to it, but now seems a good time.

Considering the numbers of Iranians in Western countries, if Britain was to go to war with Iran, do you think that there could be an uprising of Iranians in Britain? Even if this amounts to terrorist attacks like someone pointed out, if they really wanted to they could do things that would make 9/11 seem like nothing.

I think that it's a big possibility and something any nation should consider before going in all guns blazing.

Originally posted by malganis
Considering the numbers of Iranians in Western countries, if Britain was to go to war with Iran, do you think that there could be an uprising of Iranians in Britain?

No,

The Iranian community in Britain are those who are in exile and are very vocal against the current Iranian government.

Originally posted by infinite
The Iranian community in Britain are those who are in exile and are very vocal against the current Iranian government.

Is there much chance of terrorists and radicals, that come from home and abroad, taking up support of Iran?