Current Masonic Conspiracies

As much as I would hate to hear it I would like to discuss what the readers of ATS know about modern day Freemason conspiracies.

I hear alot about the rehashed past same old same old stuff but tell me something about today.

Cory

Originally posted by corsig
As much as I would hate to hear it I would like to discuss what the readers of ATS know about modern day Freemason conspiracies.

I hear alot about the rehashed past same old same old stuff but tell me something about today.

Cory

According to a recent thread, there is a conspiracy among ATS Masons to masquerade as anti-Masons in order to make the rest of them look dumb.

Personally, I don't think they need our help at all.

Wow- where is Cain and friends?

I know it's the weekend so I'll cut them some slack.

The mission is easy provide me something of substance that is NEW or somewgat CURRENTand not past stuff that is always rehashed on Freemasonwatch.com or one of the other Anti sites

2 full days now and nothing from our friends.

Perhaps because they have nothing new and even the ones discussed are based on evidence that could never be proven? Man we need to get on our game and do something "horrible", I miss the lime light.

Hmmmm..ok let's see. The Scottish Rite recently sponsored a NASCAR vehicle..now everyone knows NASCAR is really popular in the southern USA.

Albert Pike, one of the more famous Masons, was a Confederate.... This is an obvious attempt by the Masons to subvert Southerners in an attempt to march them into Washington DC to burn down the White House and erect an alter to Pike which they will conduct their Satanic rituals at.

I read it on an internet site written by a guy who had a friend who's uncle was 666th degree Mason. Of course you don't know all this because your not high enough up yet. I don't have the link so you'll just have to take my word on it. True story....

Ok, so maybe not..but I tried!

I think it is unfair to judge all masons by saying masonic conspiracies. I believe that yes, the very high degree masons are keeping something from the rest and may have their own agenda, but it is so secret that everything is all just speculation.

I am not a mason, nor claim to be an expert. Im only commenting because Im currently reading some stuff by Manly P. Hall. From what Ive learned, the majority of masons are good people, if they follow the right path. If they truly believe that perverted thought, uncurbed emotions and destructive actions were what destroyed the "master mason" then it seems they are on the good side. I believe the good ones truly are trying to find the god in man. Unfortunately, the high degrees are so shrouded in mystery that its impossible to know what they are truly about. It is up to the individual to choose his own path. There will always be good and bad in anything you discover in life.

Just trying to say that you can't accuse an entire group of people because of the actions taken by a select few.


Peace

Originally posted by Chronic_Blaze
I believe that yes, the very high degree masons are keeping something from the rest and may have their own agenda, but it is so secret that everything is all just speculation.

Just trying to say that you can't accuse an entire group of people because of the actions taken by a select few.

Agreed

However, if your house is infested with cockroaches, sometimes you have to turn the entire thing upside down to get 'em all out.

If required, the second option is not as pleasant.

[edit on 5-3-2007 by In nothing we trust]

Originally posted by AdamL
Hmmmm..ok let's see. The Scottish Rite recently sponsored a NASCAR vehicle..now everyone knows NASCAR is really popular in the southern USA.

If the Southern Jurisdiction gets to do that, I think the Northern Jurisdiction should get together and get the Man Show put back on the air. The real one, with Kimmel and Corolla.

THAT would get the Mason-Hatefest going... we'd be accused of some pretty nasty stuff, I wager... corruption of moral fiber, and such.

Originally posted by Chronic_Blaze
I think it is unfair to judge all masons by saying masonic conspiracies. I believe that yes, the very high degree masons are keeping something from the rest and may have their own agenda, but it is so secret that everything is all just speculation.

So, let me ask you this: what leads you to believe that these 'high degree masons' exist, and that they are keeping 'something' from the world?

As you say, it's just speculation... what gives you cause to speculate in this particular direction?



[edit on 3/5/2007 by Hobbes]

So I guess what we are saying is that the only things that can be found are completely distorted out of contect rehashed crap from a 1800 fraud like Taxil.

I'm still hoping to keep the discussion alive until someone of VCR's calliber will be open to have a dialog.

what leads you to believe that these 'high degree masons' exist, and that they are keeping 'something' from the world?

What Im saying is even back in ancient Egypt lower level initiates were not told the sacred things that the very high levels were. The pharoah even had to approve personally before any initiate was allowed to move into the final stage. There are things disclosed to those who reach the very high levels.

what gives you cause to speculate in this particular direction?

Im only speculating on what types of conspiracies exist. I have no doubt at all of their presense. Not every mason is allowed to graduate to the higher levels. Im talking about those above the 33 degree. Its very easy to right them off saying they don't exist, but like it or not freemasonry has a dark past. People have been threatened by death again all the way back to Egypt.

[edit on 5-3-2007 by Chronic_Blaze]

Originally posted by Chronic_Blaze

what leads you to believe that these 'high degree masons' exist, and that they are keeping 'something' from the world?

What Im saying is even back in ancient Egypt lower level initiates were not told the sacred things that the very high levels were. The pharoah even had to approve personally before any initiate was allowed to move into the final stage. There are things disclosed to those who reach the very high levels.

what gives you cause to speculate in this particular direction?

Im only speculating on what types of conspiracies exist. I have no doubt at all of their presense. Not every mason is allowed to graduate to the higher levels. Im talking about those above the 33 degree. Its very easy to right them off saying they don't exist, but like it or not freemasonry has a dark past. People have been threatened by death again all the way back to Egypt.

[edit on 5-3-2007 by Chronic_Blaze]

No one knows exactly when Freemasonry (i.e. not just a guild of Stonemasons) was first created or by who. Thus how can you compare the modern craft to ancient Egypt. Yes a tremendous portion of Masonic teachings comes from the old testament, but it is still quite silly for you or anyone to claim to know anything about ancient Egypt and any relation it might have to Masonic practice. Especially if you are not a Mason.

it is still quite silly for you or anyone to claim to know anything about ancient Egypt and any relation it might have to Masonic practice

Really? Have you heard of the Crata Repoa? Its rituals and ceremonial initiation practices are very similar to modern freemasonry. And I am in no way saying that Egypt is where freemasonry started, you must be confused.

Chronic Blaze - as you point out, not all initiates get past the first base. A good example is Lyndon B Johnson. He didn't get passed the Apprentice stage.

Just because someone is powerful doesn't mean they are mason, I am sure you agree? Well, just because a powerful person is a Mason doesn't mean all people in power are Masons? Or that all who have power are corrupt?

Gerald Ford was a Mason. I have seen his name in connection with possible conspiracy theories regarding the Masons because he pardoned Nixon. However, this very event confirms his status as a 'moral man'. He privately stated that by accepting a pardon Nixon was by default acknowledging his guilt. Something he would never have done openly.

If all organisations were to go through their ranks and eliminate corrupt members I think you would find that there are others with far more cleaning to do.

Originally posted by corsig
As much as I would hate to hear it I would like to discuss what the readers of ATS know about modern day Freemason conspiracies.

Good luck!

I asked a similar question about secret societies a while back and still nothing.

In regards to the AASR NASCAR sponsorship, I doubt as many people would be as upset if they had taken out an ad in the New Yorker, Smithsonisan or National Geographic or some other upscale medium.

I have debated this with many brothers and it seems to boil down to more of an objection to NASCAR than to advertising in general.

Very unmasonic IMHO. I hope we get more NASCAR types as Masons, it might help to keep the liberal elitist snobs at bay

It would be refreshing to hear something new. Manly Hall seems to be a popular dude recently I would rather talk about him than Pike.

The whole Nascar thing was a disaster that crashed and burned before it ever got off the ground (puns intended)

Originally posted by Chronic_Blaze

What Im saying is even back in ancient Egypt lower level initiates were not told the sacred things that the very high levels were.

Not trying to be argumentative here, but what is your source for that? I've never seen any reference to the ancient Egyptian initiations being divided into "levels".

Concerning Masonry, degrees are not considered "levels". Having been through all the "higher degrees" and "side degrees" and "fun degrees" in Masonry, I can honestly and absolutely say "Nothing much to see here, folks." There's no sort of knowledge imparted in the higher Masonic degrees, much less anything sacred. In fact, after the recent revisions, they're not even very interesting anymore.

Im only speculating on what types of conspiracies exist. I have no doubt at all of their presense. Not every mason is allowed to graduate to the higher levels. Im talking about those above the 33 degree. Its very easy to right them off saying they don't exist, but like it or not freemasonry has a dark past.

Not really. In fact, I've been seriously considering leaving the fraternity as of late. There aren't any conspiracies or dark pasts or super secret degrees. Just a bunch a guys eating hot dogs and bitching about raising membership dues to five bucks per year.

The only secret kept by the "higher level Masons" is that they are generally more ignorant of Masonry than the normal members. And that's not an exaggeration. If anyone is looking at today's Masonic leaders thinking they hold some sort of great knowledge, or are witty enough to be global conspirators, I got some news for them:



It's a wonder most of those guys can even tie their shoes without breaking their necks.

[edit on 14-3-2007 by Masonic Light]

Not trying to be argumentative here, but what is your source for that? I've never seen any reference to the ancient Egyptian initiations being divided into "levels".

My source was Crata Repoa. It was the ancient and mysterious society in egypt. The only way to get in was to be recommended by an initiate. Their were seven grades/levels. You could not even obtain the Seventh grade unless you had the assent of the King and Demiurgos and at the same time the general consent of the inner members of the society. Plato is probably the most popular guy outside of Egypt who passed the trials. Its levels all have some similarities to some higher degrees in freemasonry. It was probably even more secretive.

The only secret kept by the "higher level Masons" is that they are generally more ignorant of Masonry than the normal members.

As in Crata Repoa, those who achieved the Highest stage were threatened with death to even expose its teachings to lower initiates. I believe that even freemasons who achieve 33rd degree still dont know the secret teachings as they can only be initiated by someone who has already learned them. Thats why freemasons always say theres nothing above 33rd degree. Thats because their not supposed to know about it. Only a select few will ever hear or learn of what happens at that level.

And, no, I don't consider it to be 34 degree or anything higher. The degrees end at 33. That is where the free knowledge ends. The secret knowledge is not to be passed to ordinary masons.

If anyone is looking at today's Masonic leaders thinking they hold some sort of great knowledge, or are witty enough to be global conspirators, I got some news for them:

Plato was one of the great minds of his time. That is why he was permitted by the Egyptians to be tested by the trials. If what you say is true, then it is obvious why they were not entrusted with any secret teachings. The knowledge isn't given to those who are not worthy.

Peace

Originally posted by Chronic_Blaze
I believe that even freemasons who achieve 33rd degree still dont know the secret teachings as they can only be initiated by someone who has already learned them.

Agreed.

Thats why freemasons always say theres nothing above 33rd degree. Thats because their not supposed to know about it. Only a select few will ever hear or learn of what happens at that level.

This is where i disagree. If a 33rd degree Scottish Rite Mason is initiated into something else, that's great, but it's not Freemasonry. It wouldn't be "above" the 33rd degree. It would be something different entirely. An example might be the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, or something similar.

And, no, I don't consider it to be 34 degree or anything higher. The degrees end at 33. That is where the free knowledge ends. The secret knowledge is not to be passed to ordinary masons.

If the Masons ever had any secret knowledge, which I doubt, it's long since lost.

BUt again, it should be pointed out: there isn't really any "secret" knowledge anymore. Anyone interested in the Kabalah or other forms of previously secret knowledge need only a library card: the day when one must join a secret society for it has long since passed. Indeed, one is almost better off without them if he is a sincere student: the ritualists in my Scottish Rite Temple can't even correctly pronounce the word "Kabalah" during degree conferrals. And I've seen the same in many other Temples.



[edit on 14-3-2007 by Masonic Light]