U.S., Iraq, Syira and Iran to hold talks

U.S., Iraq, Syira and Iran to hold talks

Source Link: hosted.ap.org

WASHINGTON - The United States and the Iraqi government are launching a new diplomatic initiative to invite Iran and Syria to a “neighbors meeting” on stabilizing Iraq, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Tuesday.

“We hope that all governments seize this opportunity to improve their relations with Iraq and to work for peace and stability in the region,” Rice said in remarks prepared for delivery to a Senate committee. Excerpts were released in advance by the State Department.

The move reflects a change of approach by the Bush administration, which previously had resisted calls by members of Congress and by a bipartisan Iraq review group to include Iran and Syria in diplomatic talks on stabilizing Iraq.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Related News Links:
www.msnbc.msn.com


Edit: Commentary removed. Please review the new guidelines for the news forum.

[edit on 28-2-2007 by intrepid]

Well this is an unexpected positive development.

We should have started talking to them three years ago when we got Khatami's letter, but better late than never.

Hmm there is certainly a lot of food for thought on offer here.
Im sure that Iran is aiding the insurgency in Iraq on some level but one wonders if the Bush admins recent has been using the case against Iran to divert peoples attention away from the fact that the main aim now is to pass the buck on so Iraq falls to an Islamic regime on someone else's watch.

It could be another step into bringing the reasons to attack Iran, perhaps if Iran prove to be a problem during the talks then the Bush administration can find a way to say, "they do not want to help".

I smell a fish.

posted by marg6043

It could be another step into bringing the reasons to attack Iran, perhaps if Iran prove to be a problem during the talks then the Bush administration can find a way to say, "they do not want to help". I smell a fish.

So are we to believe Bush43 has had an epiphany? Or just an eureka moment? The day after the last election, he promised to work with the Democrats but so far he has not. No consult on Gates, no consult on Negroponte, no consult on the new DNI. No sit-down in the ISG Report. For all these years since he has been our first designated president, he has set pre-conditions on our adversaries before he - as representative of the United States - would talk to countries or groups. He says they
must - “surrender” - accede to his demands - before he will talk with them. Without an offer of proof, he pronounced Iran, North Korea and Iraq as the “Axis of Evil.”

“Evil” is a word reeking of religious overtones. I have never liked to employ such words in the political arena. Life - especially geopolitical life -is sufficiently complicated without introducing the endless ambiguities of religion. Irony not lost on our adversaries, the US would have a hard time passing the same test Bush43 lays down for others.

When Hamas won the certified clean election as the free choice of the Palestinians, the kind of pleblscite the US talks a lot about but which we cannot accept when one goes against us; not to recall our own endless electoral snafues, perhaps we will now sit at the same table as they?

Lebanon is the product of religiosity gone amok. France made Beirut - - a Christian (Catholic) enclave - out of the Ottoman Empire in the early 1920s. It’s the only so-called “confessional” state I am aware of. This approach to political dominance based on religious connections seems to be bankrupt. And here the US is, in 2007, talking more and more about creating another such state for Iraq!

It is clear (to me) that in the south of Lebanon where Muslims live that Hezbollah is the dominant political entity. Maybe by default. We unleashed on them our trained, armed and funded - and no doubt we provided the requisite intelligence - to the IDF - a misnomer - no defense involved here - which the said IDF inflected excessive death and destruction on a helpless South Lebanon. A month long rampage. with full cover given by the US in the UN. The US/IDF thereby assuring another generation of Muslim recruits to the radical groups united by religion, hence mis-labeled in the West as “Islamic.”

Despite Colin Powell’s insightful warning to Bush43, “If you break it, you own it,” we are there now. We have mucked up Iraq beyond the worst nightmares Saddam Hussein could have heaped upon his people. Now we can’t find our way out of Iraq. Everyone wants out, no one knows how to get out.

Father Bush41 conceived and chose the Iraq Study Group with the real goal of providing Bush43 “cover” to get America out of the Iraqi Civil War. B43 missed that golden opportunity. Now, with the Birmingham Songbird Condo Rice as a wimpy Secretary or State, we are about to attend a conference of hard ball players from France, Germany, Russia, China, Iran, Syria, and Iraq. Saudi Arabia ought to be there, too, and in truth, Israel , but that would be too much for even the Big 4, France, German, Russia and Cina - to be able to pull off.

I have argued since September 12, 2001, that the Israeli-Arab or Palestinian question, is the root cause of America’s problems in the Middle East. Solve that, and we can go back to business as usual. Ignore it, and we cannot find our way out. And America is the only country that can solve it.

[edit on 2/28/2007 by donwhite]

Donwhite for some reason I can possibly find a way to trust Bush change of hart, for a long time his advisors has been telling him about getting Iran Involve but his agenda toward the middle east doesn’t have room for talks . . . just actions, it doesn’t matter that countries like Palestine, Lebanon and even Iraq has chosen governments, this choices are not what Bush wants, Palestine very clearly chose to have Hamas in power, Lebanon had Hezbollah members seats and Iraq have Maliki that when he wanted to bring Iran for diplomatic talks into Iraq, the only Iranian embassy was raided and diplomats taken, no only in Iraq but also in Kurdish region that has proclaim to be independent, Iranian workers has been taken by the US, then the Bush administration criticized Maliki’s integrity and ability to government. . .

The independent study panel appointed to Iraq had in its solutions to bring Iran and Syrian into talks, but Bush very clearly rejected those solutions.

Now we are to believe that he really wants them included into talks?

Since when is about other countries and not what the Bush administration has been until now . . .”My way or the highway”.

Donwhite bringing Iran and Syria into talks has a hidden agenda and is one to benefit only one group The Bush group.

Wars are good they are good for business, peace is out of the question.

posted by marg6043

“ . . for some reason I cannot possibly trust Bush [to have] change of heart . . for a long time his advisors tell him to get Iran involved but his agenda toward the Middle East doesn’t have room for talks . . . just actions . . it doesn’t matter that countries like Palestine, Lebanon and even Iraq have elected governments, choices not what Bush wanted.

Palestine very clearly chose to have Hamas in power. Lebanon had Hezbollah members [in Parliament] and Iraq has Maliki (Shia) that when he wanted to bring in Iran for diplomatic talks, the Iranian embassy was raided and diplomats taken by the US . . then the Bush administration criticized Maliki’s integrity and ability to government . . .

The independent Iraq study group had in its solutions to bring Iran and Syrian into talks, but Bush very clearly rejected those solutions. Now we are to believe he really wants them included into talks? Since when is it about other countries and not what the Bush administration has been until now . . . ”My way or the highway.”

Donwhite bringing Iran and Syria into talks has a hidden agenda and is one to benefit only one group The Bush group. Wars are good for business, peace is out of the question. [Edited by Don W]

I agree. Bush has put himself into the position that we cannot trust him. He lied to the public so often that even if he tells the truth , most people will not believe it. That is sad. Sad for the country, and sad for his legacy. We are stuck with him until January 20, 2009. Let us try to minimize the damage he can work on the US and the world.

I believe Bush43 is a 25th Amendment , Section 3, case. What do you think?

Originally posted by donwhite

I believe Bush43 is a 25th Amendment , Section 3, case. What do you think?

I definitely think that he got some major problems but I don't think we want oil trigger happy Cheney to rule the nation for the next 2 years.

Seriously Cheney can not sit still in his pants as you have noticed since congress is now Democrat and the possibility of leaving Iraq without establishing who has the right to drill their oil . . . and the agenda is not over he have to get Iran next.

posted by marg6043

posted by donwhite . . I believe Bush43 is a 25th Amendment , Section 3, case. What do you think?

I definitely think that he got some major problems . . I don't think we want Cheney to rule the nation for the next 2 years . . Seriously Cheney can not sit still as you have noticed since Congress is now Democrat and the possibility of leaving Iraq without establishing who has the right to drill their oil . . . and the agenda is not over . . he has to get Iran next.

Yes, it is beginning to look like those who said it was oil, oil, and oil will prove to have been right all along. The “spread democracy” hoopla was for domestic consumption only. Cynicism in the nth degree. Callousness as exemplified by Building 18 at Walter Reed , a problem festering for at least 2 years but which neither the Oberfuhrer nor the Texas Cowboy ever really gave a dam.

[edit on 2/28/2007 by donwhite]

So it seems to me they're now taking another John Kerry plan. Kerry has often said he thought there should be a mid east summit where all the area country's get together and talk things out and work together on what to do to move forward. I wouldn't be surprised however if in a couple of days they make up some excuse to not have these talks.

Lebanon is the product of religiosity gone amok. France made Beirut - - a Christian (Catholic) enclave - out of the Ottoman Empire in the early 1920s. It’s the only so-called “confessional” state I am aware of. This approach to political dominance based on religious connections seems to be bankrupt. And here the US is, in 2007, talking more and more about creating another such state for Iraq!

It is clear (to me) that in the south of Lebanon where Muslims live that Hezbollah is the dominant political entity. Maybe by default. We unleashed on them our trained, armed and funded - and no doubt we provided the requisite intelligence - to the IDF - a misnomer - no defense involved here - which the said IDF inflected excessive death and destruction on a helpless South Lebanon. A month long rampage. with full cover given by the US in the UN. The US/IDF thereby assuring another generation of Muslim recruits to the radical groups united by religion, hence mis-labeled in the West as “Islamic.”

Despite Colin Powell’s insightful warning to Bush43, “If you break it, you own it,” we are there now. We have mucked up Iraq beyond the worst nightmares Saddam Hussein could have heaped upon his people. Now we can’t find our way out of Iraq. Everyone wants out, no one knows how to get out.

Father Bush41 conceived and chose the Iraq Study Group with the real goal of providing Bush43 “cover” to get America out of the Iraqi Civil War. B43 missed that golden opportunity. Now, with the Birmingham Songbird Condo Rice as a wimpy Secretary or State, we are about to attend a conference of hard ball players from France, Germany, Russia, China, Iran, Syria, and Iraq. Saudi Arabia ought to be there, too, and in truth, Israel , but that would be too much for even the Big 4, France, German, Russia and Cina - to be able to pull off.

I have argued since September 12, 2001, that the Israeli-Arab or Palestinian question, is the root cause of America’s problems in the Middle East. Solve that, and we can go back to business as usual. Ignore it, and we cannot find our way out. And America is the only country that can solve it.

[edit on 2/28/2007 by donwhite]

Don't forget that Saudi Arabia is funling money and arms to Sunni's in Iraq but you hear NOTHING from the Bushies on that. Nah. Just on Iran. Don't forget before the elections in Lebanon the Bush administration was warned that Hezbollah would gain support in the government but they went a long with it anyways. The person Bush supports in Iraq's government is tied to terrorists who are against the United States so what's up with that? In Lebanon there are majority of moderate Muslim's and Christian's. In Iran in their last recent election a lot of the people who supported their president got voted out (think of our last midterms) so it seems to me the only time these places have radical leaders are when they feel like they are being threatned and common sense sometimes goes out the window and it happens here in our country too. Journalist Greg Palast recently on his website gregpalast.com had a really great article about the Iraq Study Group and how it wasn't to help George Bush but the Saudi's. Don't forget that James Baker is an official lawyer for the Saudi family against 9/11 widow's or family members. Sorry but I disagree about America and the Israeli-Palestine problem. They both have to grow up. America can try to help but I don't think so. Jimmy Carter lately has been trying to help by telling the truth and he got called all sorts of bad things. So don't expect that situation to stop until you can get a president in there like Jimmy Carter who can tell Israel to grow up as well as the Palestine people. Right now there are too many politicians afraid on getting on Israel's bad side to do that.

Originally posted by donwhite

posted by marg6043

“ . . for some reason I cannot possibly trust Bush [to have] change of heart . . for a long time his advisors tell him to get Iran involved but his agenda toward the Middle East doesn’t have room for talks . . . just actions . . it doesn’t matter that countries like Palestine, Lebanon and even Iraq have elected governments, choices not what Bush wanted.

Palestine very clearly chose to have Hamas in power. Lebanon had Hezbollah members [in Parliament] and Iraq has Maliki (Shia) that when he wanted to bring in Iran for diplomatic talks, the Iranian embassy was raided and diplomats taken by the US . . then the Bush administration criticized Maliki’s integrity and ability to government . . .

The independent Iraq study group had in its solutions to bring Iran and Syrian into talks, but Bush very clearly rejected those solutions. Now we are to believe he really wants them included into talks? Since when is it about other countries and not what the Bush administration has been until now . . . ”My way or the highway.”

Donwhite bringing Iran and Syria into talks has a hidden agenda and is one to benefit only one group The Bush group. Wars are good for business, peace is out of the question. [Edited by Don W]

I agree. Bush has put himself into the position that we cannot trust him. He lied to the public so often that even if he tells the truth , most people will not believe it. That is sad. Sad for the country, and sad for his legacy. We are stuck with him until January 20, 2009. Let us try to minimize the damage he can work on the US and the world.

I believe Bush43 is a 25th Amendment , Section 3, case. What do you think?

Sometimes I wonder if anybody even listen's to him anymore. He doesn't listen to the public so it just makes me wonder.

Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by donwhite

I believe Bush43 is a 25th Amendment , Section 3, case. What do you think?

I definitely think that he got some major problems but I don't think we want oil trigger happy Cheney to rule the nation for the next 2 years.

Seriously Cheney can not sit still in his pants as you have noticed since congress is now Democrat and the possibility of leaving Iraq without establishing who has the right to drill their oil . . . and the agenda is not over he have to get Iran next.

They ALL would have to be impeached since they all lied and are war criminals so here comes president Pelosi.

posted by SouthernBelle82

posted by DonWhite
“ . . [IDF rampage in Lebanon] assures another generation of Muslim recruits to the radical groups united by religion . . hence unwisely and dangerously mis-labeled in the West as “Islamic terrorists.” A thoughtless buy-in to Bush43's intellectually weak characterizations, a “War of Civilizations” or a “War of Religions,” both very bad self-delusion on our part. We’re letting 50,000 radicals taint a billion fellow inhabitants of this planet. We cannot control the 50,000, only their fellow Muslims can do that. Peer pressure and all that, you know.

Father Bush41 conceived the Iraq Study Group with the goal of providing Bush43 “cover” to get America out of the Iraqi Civil War . . the Israeli-Arab or Palestinian question is the root cause of America’s problems in the Middle East. Solve that, and we can get back to business as usual. America remains the only country that can solve it.

(1) Don't forget Saudi Arabia is funneling money and arms to Sunni's in Iraq but you hear NOTHING from the Bushies on that. Just on Iran. Don't forget before the elections in Lebanon the Bush administration was warned that Hezbollah would gain support in the government but they went along with it anyway. The person Bush supports in Iraq's government is tied to terrorists who are against the United States so what's up with that?

(2) In Lebanon there are majority of moderate Muslim's and Christian's. In Iran in the last election a lot of the people who supported their [moderate] president got voted out so it seems the only time these places have radical leaders are when they feel like they are being threatened [by the US or its allies] and common sense sometimes goes out the window . . it happens in our country too.

(3) Journalist Greg Palast recently on his website gregpalast.com had a really great article about the Iraq Study Group and how it wasn't to help George Bush but the Saudi's. Don't forget that James Baker is an official lawyer for the Saudi family against 9/11 widow's or family members.

(4) Sorry but I disagree about America and the Israeli-Palestine problem. They both have to grow up. America can try to help but I don't think so. Jimmy Carter lately has been trying to help by telling the truth and he got called all sorts of bad things. So don't expect that situation to stop until you can get a president in there like Jimmy Carter who can tell Israel to grow up as well as the Palestine people. Right now there are too many politicians afraid of getting on Israel's bad side to do that. [Edited by Don W]

Hello, Southernbelle82! You have jumped right into this foray and are giving me pause to reflect. That’s good. Although it's not a 4 letter word, “complacency” is one of the bad words of contemporary usage.

1) As you said in a follow-on post, S/B82, they all deserve to be impeached. I use the words “arrogant” and “ignorant” when referring to Texas Republicans and their ilk. I have asserted Bush43 is not “normal” and I cite him signing 154 death warrants in barely 6 years as proof. A record not exceeded even in apartheid South Africa. Based on the Illinois case, 7% were innocent.

It is now obvious to me that Bush43 is a true convert to the Neo Conservative doctrine, the most dangerous part of which is the claim that America has a 20 years window of opportunity following the fall of the USSR - 1991 - to remake the world in our own image.

2) Lebanon is a special case. Beirut was the port city for Damascus, the religious center of the Ottoman Empire as Istanbul was the political center. Beirut, Tel Aviv and Haifa are the major ports along the eastern rim of the Mediterranean Sea through which most trade to the Orient passed. It was still a vital port in the 1920s which France wanted to control. France set up the system of governance with the expectation they could retain control even if their Army withdrew. That proved to be the case through 2007 although Beirut is much less important today. One man, one vote will bring peace to Lebanon.

3) Well, I don’t read that much into Baker’s co-chairmanship. That denigrates the others, Lee Hamilton, Tom Gates, Justice O’Connor, and etc. It sounds nice and conspiratorial on the quick but it won’t hold up on the calm reflection.

4) Got to go walk the dog now. I’ll post this later. Nice post, S/B82.

[edit on 2/28/2007 by donwhite]

posted by SouthernBelle82

(4) Sorry but I disagree about America and the Israeli-Palestine problem. They both have to grow up. America can try to help but I don't think so. Jimmy Carter lately has been trying to help by telling the truth and he got called all sorts of bad things. So don't expect that situation to stop until you can get a president in there like Jimmy Carter who can tell Israel to grow up as well as the Palestine people. Right now there are too many politicians afraid of getting on Israel's bad side to do that. [Edited by Don W]

Growing up? Look for a minute at the demographics of the Gaza Strip. Most notable for growin rocks. Running 30 miles north-south along the eastern coast of the Mediterranean Sea, 6 miles wide at the north end, 12 miles wide at the south end sharing a border with Egypt. Land area, about 130 square miles. 1.4 million people. 10,500 persons per square mile. All of them began life as refugees from what is now Israel or the West Bank, around 1948-1949. 60 odd years away from home. 3 generations.

Captured by Israel in the Six Day War of 1967. Along with the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights. Among other things, Israel has violated the United Nations Charter by annexing lands taken in war. Israel is in perpetual violations of General Assembly Resolutions denouncing the 100s of settlements in the occupied territories. The Wall is an insult to civilization. A throw back to pre-Mongol days in China.

The Israeli Defense Force comes and goes in the Territories at will. So you say, “Grow Up?” But who? The Arabs have very few arms. Mostly AK47s. The IDF has the best weaponry America can furnish. Suicide bombers are the weapon of "last resort." No parent wants his or her child to die. But children want to help their people.

I have posted (what I saw elsewhere) for years, there can be only one settlement of the Arab Israeli conflict, which we started in 1948 when we decided to give “half” of the British League of Nations Palestine Mandate to the Jewish survivors of the Holocaust.

The settlement would be thus:
The West Bank goes to the Arabs. All non-Arabs are moved out in 24 hours - and Israel is not to destroy the infrastructure as has been the Jewish habit. That much of East Jerusalem which contains the Temple Mount and easy access to and from the West Bank. One caveat: The Jewish people must not be interfered with in any way whatsoever as they worship at the West Wall a/k/a the Wailing Wall. A UN Permanent Contingency would enforce this rule.

Gaza would also be a part of the West Bank and East Jerusalem Arab state. A grade separated roadway connecting Gaza to the West Bank over which Israel would have no control would be constructed. I recommend an above the ground tunnel. The Golan would go back to Syria as a permanently de-militarized zone, also enforced by the UN Permanent Contingency.

The Right of Return. I’d recognize this symbolically. This means those who had their property taken by force or threat of force would be compensated. There are probably up to 200,000 separate parcels of land. I’d say, give each owner or his heirs a one time payment of $250,000, and we’d all call it quits. And there my friends, is the solution of the Arab Israel Conflict.

The US would probably be asked by both sides to station 10,000 men along the border for 10-20 years, as we did in the Sinai between Israel and Egypt. New Palestine would be denied the right to have offensive arms and not more than a police constabulary would be allowed. Israel would agree to move its armed forces back away from the border 500 meters per year, until they were well out of sight. 3,000 meters or so. Any incidents - each side has extremists - would be handled by a three party cross border police force under the guidance of Interpol. That’s my plan.

[edit on 2/28/2007 by donwhite]