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Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
Not asking for blind faith here...
I am asking for faith in the integrity of reputable journalists, and their research...
Unless we see it with our own eyes, we are ALWAYS left to either believe the source, or not...
And i accept that you are vigiliant.... good for you
but in this day and age, I believe you have to start "believing" somewhere...
Or else, (extreme example here-) how do you know that you are even alive?
how do you know that this isn't the creation of a comatose mind?
how can you even trust your own eyes, when dreams can be as vivid?
I have watched Kevin Ogle for years (BTW- he is quite conservative) and am familiar with his reputation...
I choose to believe that he did his homework on this report...
I can understand now why you dont...
and I also accept that it is for valid reasons within your beliefs...
so in this affect, we have an impasse...
can we both agree to disagree for valid reasons within our beliefs?
and do you accept my sincere apology, so that we can part with respect, and perhaps even agree on other topics later?
- Lazarus
Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
they documented spraying over 239 cities...
it was chemical weapons tests... (using a far less harmful agent- BUT STILL!)
would it finally shut up the scoffers, that laugh at chemtrail CTists?
the whole point of bringing it up, is that it is truly ignorant to laugh at or dismiss claims of present chemtrails due to lack of historical evidence- because suprise- we now have it!
www.kfor.com...
"Among the hundreds and hundreds of tests that the army did, Stillwater, Oklahoma was targeted," said Cole, an expert on the Army's development of biological weapons. In some cities reports indicate Americans actually died because of the testing.
Government records show florescent particles of zinc cadmium sulfide were released in Stillwater in 1962.
Also, Leonard Cole (reporters primary source) is the well renowned and respected author. He has acheived acclaim, and uncontested status as a Bioterrorism expert.
Here is a bit on his creditials via a book review of his book on the anthrax attacks
but in this day and age, I believe you have to start "believing" somewhere...
airplane spotters should be able to notice similar planes taking off from the same airport- in the same direction, at the relitive same velocity, and attaining the same altitude ..., and then document, how one leaves a contrail, and the other doesn't...
I don't accept ANY source that asks me to simply have "faith" that they are telling me the truth,
especially when it deals with something so unbelievable.
Affirmative Reaction
Why are they [gov documents] not included in the story?
Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
Then i have to compliment you as well on your "cross the board" rejection of journalism integrity...
I would much rather that you be a person to reject all, than to listen and believe all...
and I also have firm faith in the existance of your farts...
so if given the opportunity... please dont ever try to prove it to me...
Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
I had another thought...
depending on the sensitivity of the required atmospheric conditions...
airplane spotters should be able to notice similar planes taking off from the same airport- in the same direction, at the relitive same velocity, and attaining the same altitude ...,
and then document, how one leaves a contrail, and the other doesn't...
I would guess doing this at a commercial airport would be pointless...
but a military airport, or private airport might yield a few gems of data...
I bring this up, because i live in an area that has both a military airport, and a commercial...
and i often see instances where one plane leaves a contrail, and others dont, at (what looks to be) the same height, and area of sky.
We would also have to nail down differences in fuel types, and the resultant output...
Anything other than your own personal research has to be accepted with a certain degree of 'faith'. You are saying that Cole is fabricating the existence of these reports, and that the reporter that wrote the article either didn't look at Cole's reports, or that he is in cahoots with him, correct?
Originally posted by selfless
For those of you who needs a scientific report on the existence of chemtrails well here is one, i hope it can inform.
www.chemtrailcentral.com...
Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
(Waving hand in the air) Twenty years flying C-130s for the USAF here. Over 5,000 hours in the air, 6 of 7 continents, thousands of airfields, tens of thousands of aircraft, never, NEVER, saw anything even CLOSE to what has been described...except contrails. Lots and lots of contrails.
Nothing special.
Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
Originally posted by selfless
For those of you who needs a scientific report on the existence of chemtrails well here is one, i hope it can inform.
www.chemtrailcentral.com...
Sorry...been debunked time and time again. There is NO scientific evidence here what so ever. It is simply a web site that BELIEVES in "chemtrails" and tries to get you to do so as well. It's not a credible source. It's sort of like going to "MoveOn.Org" for factual information about the Republican Party, or listening to Rush Limbaugh for information on the Democrats.
Can you say, "Agenda"?
[edit on 24-10-2006 by Affirmative Reaction]
Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
Just so we are specific here, and on the same page...
and even though it was your eyes, and not mine...
If you haven't seen any instances of contrails at same altitudes as planes with no contrails...
then that is some valid data...
and is also very comforting, considering at least it proves that chemtrail use isn't widespread enough to be seen by a pilot with over 5000hrs in the air. (but doesn't preclude the possibility totally)
But using your experience, please do keep your eyes open for:
military planes that are leaving heavy contrails at altitudes that other aircraft dont seem to leave contrails at...
and of course, if you see a cropduster over a population center... dont assume it is a harmless test...
Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
Can you say, "Agenda"?
[edit on 24-10-2006 by Affirmative Reaction]
Originally posted by selfless
What is debunking anyways? how can you debunk something that is open to interpretation? you can't... you simply make your own opinion about it but you can't just force a debunk word on others that's no different then trying to force your ideas on someone.
Originally posted by selfless
I do not force you to consider the possibility of chemtrails AR, you can think what you want but please don't try to ruin a source of information for others just because you declair it debunked.
By the way this thread is about reporting chemtrails and this site is an explaination on how to identify chemtrails and how to report them.
www.chemtrailcentral.com...
Originally posted by Fiverz
Note I am not saying that chemtrails do not exist. But there needs to be more research done in a scientific manner before I am willing to believe random peoples' pictures and accounts
Originally posted by 7Ayreon
Tell me, fellow people who believe chemtrails are simply contrails:
1) Why do these contrails form above citys on calm not so windy days, when on windy days there concentrated a little ways away from the city and then move in toward the city thus than, finally evaporating?
2) Why is it on certain days that these contrails don't appear in the sky while there is still a lot of air traffic?
3) Why do they rarely occur out away from citys? Don't say they're landing there, because they aren't.
It is so obvious they are dumping chemicals over populated/targeted areas.
[edit on 25-10-2006 by 7Ayreon]