Iran sniper rifle acquisitions

Iran has bought 800 50cal sniper rifles of famous austrian arms mmanufacturer Steyr. The deal was signed in 2005.

The STEYR HS .50 is a long range, high precision rifle, with an effective range of up to 1,640 yards (1,500 m) and similar armor piercing qualities to the american Barrett 50cal sniper rifles. The Steyr is single shot and not self-loading which is arguably a disadvantage relative to the Barrett but allows for easier concealment of the firer (why many countries prefer bolt action sniping rifles).

The Steyr can pierce US army issue body armor and poses a threat to lightly armored vehicles such as Hummers and trucks.

Steyr arms are some of the absolute best in the world. Right up there with Heckler & Koch and Fabrique Nationale.

I don't see them as having any advantage though. The guy pulling the trigger determines wether or not the kill is made - not the rifle.

I don't see autoloading as a benefit really. Our guys who are shooting the M82 are supposed to make it happen with a single shot. Autoloading a sniper rifle would only be a benefit on your follow-up shot because you didn't do a good job the first time.

As I see it, the advantage we have in small arms warfare has to do with the superior marksmanship of our soldiers.

Planeman
Semiauto is a major disadvatage in LR sniping, it doesn't allow free floating barrels thus reducing accuracy. Only advantage in calibers like .50cal is the fact that cycling the semiauto absorbs part of the recoil.
In my experience decent bolt action rifle beats most semiautos easily, when it comes to absolute accuracy (atleast after few minor tweaks to fore stock to ensure the free flotation)

And i can be pretty certain that these Steyrs beat the Barret hands down.

Guns like Dragunov are good for intermediate range support, but they aren't suitable to 600m+ point sniping.

ps. Of course semiauto guns like Oberland Arms are accurate as hell, but what's the point when you can get 3 Sako TRGs in .380 Lapua Mag for the same price

pps. .50cal Tungsten cored rounds will penetrate most APCs including Stryker, AMV and BTR-90 etc... This info is from both Sako and Patria

Originally posted by northwolf
Planeman
Semiauto is a major disadvatage in LR sniping, it doesn't allow free floating barrels thus reducing accuracy.

What semi can't be free floated? My M-21 was free floated, so are all of my personal semi and bolt rifles. 600yds 2.75in 1000 yds 7-8in groups with the M-21, and my civilian version of the same weapon.

Gas cylinder weapons are not truely free floating (M21 is a variant of the m-14, correct me if i'm wrong its handguard doesn't effect the barrel, but gas system does). And 7 inch group at 1000 is good but a moded 1891 mosin nagant can do the same. and 7 inches means that you can't be certain of a hit, even if you personaly fire the weapon perfectly.

I'm not saying semiautos can't be accurate, but $ for $ bolt action is more accurate.

No matter whether semiautos are less accurate than bolt actions, this is BAD NEWS for Americans and their allies fighting in the Mid East. I read that Steyr's answer when asked why they are selling the arms to Iran was "Everybody else is."

Why shouldn't Steyr sell to Iran, was there an UN embargo going on 2005? Should all companies concider interests of USA, before making export sales? Why should an Austrian company care that it's products might kill americans?

Just wonder how many of these will find their way across the border to Iraq and being used against US and Coalition forces ?

Most likely none, since there aren't that many .50cal steyrs in the world and it would be way too easy to point to Iran if one of these would be found in Iraq. Some ex-sovblock heavy snipers would be a prefered choise since they're more readily available in black market around the globe.

I would also like to add the Iran makes it own .50 cal sniper/anti-material rifles although i can't comment on it's quality compared to the Steyr I'm sure it's pretty decent.

Anyway alot of people are missing the point on these rifles. These specific rifles are not for the millitary they where pruchased before Iran started to make it's own .50 rifles they where purchased for the anti-drug police unit in Iran.

People may be thinking why the hell does Iran need these for the police it's becuase they face some of the most deadliest drug smugglers on the planet who smuggle millions of dollars worth of heroin through the borders between iran and its neighbouring countries.

These smugglers are armed with very heavy weopons such as ak-47, rpk and even explsoves like hand grenades etc.... The drug smugglers come through the lawless border areas from places such as afghanistan in iran and are armed with everything that you can get in afghanistan.

Lots of Iranian anti-drug officers are killed yearly in this area. This gun would help becuase it will allow them to blow the engine out of vehicles that are trying to escape and allow them to shoot people that are hidden behind large boulders in the mountain region and vallyes thanks to this guns increased armour penatration over the regular iran 7.62 sniper rifles.

Actually i would like to add If a war did break out i am sure that these guns will get diverted from the police to the army to defend the country by being used on any incomming forces.

The main reason why alot of American troops have survived in Iraq is becuase of the Bullet proof vests they have and the armoured chest plates which gives improved protection this is why hundreds of american soldiers have survived even after being hit with SVD sniper rifles.

One hit from any gun with a .50 and over and your defently loosing a bodypart or your life the vests won't help you much at that point also it allows the enemy to engage you from a further distance then those armed with 7.62 sniper rifles.

I don't understand why the US has never made a 'front' gun manufacturer, someone that makes high quality weapons, but, when someone like Iran makes a purchase shortly before an upcomming war with the US, only sells them ones that are defective, or having tracking devices, or some such, in them.

Originally posted by Nygdan
I don't understand why the US has never made a 'front' gun manufacturer, someone that makes high quality weapons, but, when someone like Iran makes a purchase shortly before an upcomming war with the US, only sells them ones that are defective, or having tracking devices, or some such, in them.

Yet if the situation were reversed, and an Iranian front company sold you and yours dodgy rifles, with tracking devices in them, you would cry TERRORISM in a second.

Standard double Bubble.

Originally posted by Nygdan
I don't understand why the US has never made a 'front' gun manufacturer, someone that makes high quality weapons, but, when someone like Iran makes a purchase shortly before an upcomming war with the US, only sells them ones that are defective, or having tracking devices, or some such, in them.

That is not a credible analysis - you cannot feasibly hide a tracking device in the guns that would not be found by the Iranians. Also, defective functioning would be spotted straight away too. 50 cal ammo is very plantiful so no real scope for sabotage there either.

Planeman,

Semi's give you some major advantages when it comes to clustered targets since they allow you to prerange (say) a linear roadway or intersection feature and then simply advance the muzzle up a vehicle convoy or patrol unit. While direct hits should /always/ be possible on vehicle targets, it must be recognized that .50 fragments will tear a man up pretty good, even from a near miss.

Even as the faster you can shoot /well/, in the first few rounds, the less the overlapping reports will be differentiable as well.

That said, the real problem, if these things make their way into any kind of OOTW context, is that you can now treble the range around any given ground action where sniping can give support and thus must 'secure' the equivalent number of multistory buildings or other raised terrain features in say an urban battle zone. If there are an average of 1.5 such areas per acre in Baghdad with the correct grazing angle/LOS now there could be as many as 4.5.

And thats a MAJOR hit in terms of restricted maneuver and predictable ops plans.

Not least of this potential is the certainty of counter sniper operations against U.S. teams doing the same for our guys. We are outnumbered over there 12:1 and look nothing like the natives. Having already lost, what was it, SIX snipers in a single engagement, we would do well to remember our conspicuity and vulnerability when .50 rounds start to ventillate walls in OUR sniper nests.

Having said that, the principle danger is always going to be the unexpected and /unmarked/ attack on oil infrastructure and shipping. There is an amazing amount of damage you can do to a pressurized well head or transfer casing with a .50 round and the castings are NOT CHEAP OR QUICK to replace.

Since NTISR is now the principle mission of all our airpower in both regions, it must be said that the ability to attack without direct (proximal) approach probably means quite a bit to insurgents hell bent on achieving damage to their own future without having to emplace or rocket explosives. Targeting Pods and even Predator FLIR will be locked onto a 1-2 mile strip around the oil lines and such. While direct approach systems (UGS nets or remote GMTR etc.) will also be biased towards an alarm threshold which a good gunner team may not necessarily broach.

At sea, you can use a helicopter or even a fishing boat 'on the horizon' to make very long range bridge, weapons, sensor or (in the case of tankers) hatchcover/transfer system kills though clearly above deck hits will require a larger slant and higher altitude or closer approach while moving small targets will be more difficult to hit.

The real problem will come when the Iranians copy or steal the barrel technology and then adapt it to use cargo munitions. With these, entire units will be vulnerable to top attack and it will only require a skilled shooter (or a BORS type sight) to allow single units, under cover, (something say a mortar cannot do) to inflict very heavy attrition once something like an IED stops everybody to deal with the wounded and damaged vehicles. Indeed, it is theoretically possible to replace radio detonation of explosives by using AMR/SPR to 'remote activate' plastic or caps in an environment of heavy jamming or network blackouts.

I frankly don't give a rat's behind how many of their cops get capped by drug runners, NONE of these rifles have a legitimate use in Arab or Iranian hands over there. Not One.

If Steyr has a V3 problem with that then it's time we dumped a 20,000 free M16s onto their next Assault Rifle customer. Or denied sales of hunting and pistol systems on the U.S. market. If they are part of a larger industrial group, then making their parent organization 'feel the pain' of affiliation should also be an option, 'right well and soon'.


KPl.

Originally posted by ch1466
Not least of this potential is the certainty of counter sniper operations against U.S. teams doing the same for our guys. We are outnumbered over there 12:1 and look nothing like the natives. Having already lost, what was it, SIX snipers in a single engagement

Where, in Iran??? Care to send links or comment further? Thanks!

Aelita,

Iraq. 26 million of them, halved for females and kids under 14. Halved again for those 'just cheering that day'. 130,000 of us. 50:1 odds.

OTOH, since each major city outside the Capital is more or less it's own festering festung of 30-50,000 with non-aligned partisan groups either unwelcome or unable to reach the daily grind of desultory attrition, you can perform the same math vs. a typical batallion commitment with attached units and hangers-on and now you have roughly 12:1 odds.

Of course we can't always sort the sheep from the goats that easily as they have a nasty tendency to 'run one in front of the t'other'.

Yet if a threat force uses the guns wisely, either on hard-backed targets guaranteed to fragment the round beyond comparitive forensics ability to look for T&G. Or with some kind of frangible squashheads on indig/contract (government, police and emergency services, utilities and oil ministry etc.) personnel, there is no real reason to assume that these weapons cannot 'contribute usefully' to the insurgency in either AfG or Iraq without EVER coming into conditions where they are associable with an Iranian team sent in to use them.

Because they will simply never be seen within a given organizations TOE.

Something which is especially critical if the Iranians are training shooters as well as bankrolling the weapons themselves. Given they know as well as anyone in the region that your typical Iraqi would sell his sister if he thought it would get him ahead, this seems likely. Yet if Qods/Pasdaran and/or VEVAK are fronting money for a fundamentalist network thru the local mullahs in Saudi or Syria, they likely have a secure relay system in place to bring individuals at least to a certain point -in-country (from a neutral border) before they are handed off to a given local force.

Past that greatest-risk entrypoint, if you can reach an intermediate mosque or other safehouse with closed cases, all you have to do is 'disappear' between that one and the next in the chain and you are now a free operator with nary an Iraqi the wiser to what your real mission -ever- was.

The whole point of long range weapons systems being that you don't have to associate with those who can betray you in an essentially free for all anarchic environment.


KPl.

Originally posted by northwolf
Why shouldn't Steyr sell to Iran, was there an UN embargo going on 2005? Should all companies concider interests of USA, before making export sales? Why should an Austrian company care that it's products might kill americans?

Perhaps because Iran:

1. Supports terrorism
2. Denies the holocaust
3. Has stated publicly that the nation of Israel should be "wiped off the map"
4. Has an atrocious human rights record

If you rely on the UN as your moral compass, you would end up selling your soul to the Devil.

Wise up - this isn't just about the US.

I suppose you'd recommend the U.S. then as a moral compass?

You seem to foget that the U.N. is simply all the world's nations opinions put together. The U.N. dosen't have a moral compass of it's own it's actions are mainly a reflection of the security council U.K., France, Russia, China and of couse the U.S.

As to your claims...
1. prove it, saying it dosen't make it so
2. I agree that this is a bad thing for them to be doing but considering the state of things in the middle east it's hardly unexpected
3. Same as the last and I would point out this... www.jewsagainstzionism.com... It would seem that some in the jewish community realise that making Israel where it is was a big mistake.
4. Like so many nations out there that are given weapons by the U.S. Saudi Arabia for example.

I ask that you wise up yourself and take your own advice

Originally posted by Communication_Burger
Yet if the situation were reversed, and an Iranian front company sold you and yours dodgy rifles, with tracking devices in them, you would cry TERRORISM in a second.

Cry? No, we'd invade, destroy, and occupy. I said, in the lead up to war, not just regular business dealings.
Also, for what its worth, it wouldn't be terrorism no matter who did it.

planeman
you cannot feasibly hide a tracking device in the guns that would not be found by the Iranians.

I'd think it'd be exceedingly difficult, but it seems like it'd be worth investigating the technology no?

defective functioning would be spotted straight away too

Maybe it coudl have some alloy of metal at a critcal part that gets melted or deformed when electromagnetic waves of a certain frequency are broadcast, or some such. Or 'memory plastic' that looks like a normal part that will, upon similar activation, change shape and make it useless to fire.