SCI/TECH: Klein/HHO Gas Could Revolutionize the Energy Industry

Like I said before, I've been hearing stories like this for most of my life and have even heard such tales from my grandfather, but the demonstration I saw on television, which I believe was the same one Texas saw, was pretty convincing. The reason I decided to post this is that I found the article on the Kentucky website.

It might be all baloney, but I believe that this company would have to be run by idiots if they are trying to bamboozle a state government. I think they are on to something, but how far it goes, we'll just have to wait and see.

We benefit everyday from some technology that was impossible only a generation ago.

Well I'm not a chemist but I do know one. My Aunt has her doctorate in chemistry. I'll ask her if this is possible but for now the video on the website has peaked my interest.

Water torch

-Aza

Some back ground. I seen HHO on a local news broadcast from Tampa
Florida. I found the web site for Hydrogen Technology Applcations,
Inc.
Denny Klein is the president. hytechapps.com...
They developed the gas in Tampa Florida.

A sample of the gas was sent to Santilli in Palm Harbor Florida.
I then found the lab report from The Institute for Basic Research.
Here is the report. hytechapps.com...
It's on the lower left hand side. Click on it. The report was done by
Ruggero Maria Santilli.

Here is the background of Santilli. I tend to believe Santilli who
also
developed several gases.
www.usmagnegas.com...

Until I did this research, I was thinking it's a scam.

Originally posted by mbenny6400
Until I did this research, I was thinking it's a scam.

Thanks for your research. I think it's a scam.

As has been said, people have been claiming to have reinvented hydrolysis to produce some magical gas mixture since cars were invented.

From their own website:

The H2O Model 1500 Aquygen™ Gas Generator is powered by water and electricity only! - website

I was also unable to locate any of their supposed "patents" in any patent database I have acces to (including some paid subscription commercial databases).
.

if true I would be wondering mainly how the oil companies are going to reach. Will it become the 99 miles to the gallon car, put on a shelve, forgotten forever?

Ill check it out more with a chem teacher and stuff, get his opinion. After that Ill contact a couple chem professors that Ive talked to before. I want to find out in detail how exactly this could happen from some one I know knows what they are talking about. aka some one not trying to sell something.

Have found the patent for HTA, Inc. (someone said they couldn't find it) -

appft1.uspto.gov... zer&s2=generator&OS=electrolyzer+AND+generator&RS=electrolyzer+AND+generator

That should get you there...in any case, the patent application number is 20060075683. The inventors are Klein; Dennis J.; (Belleair, FL) ; Santilli; Ruggero Maria; (Palm Harbor, FL). Interesting that Santilli was mentioned a few posts back, huh?

The document says that claims 1 through 8 have been cancelled. What does that mean?

FWIW, I drove by their Clearwater office - it is actually right where the address shows on Google Earth...

Tim

How about this piece of baloney taken directly form their web site:

Also, the variable character of the energy content of the Aquygen™ Gas is clear evidence that the gas has a structure other than a molecular structure, namely, that its chemical composition includes bonds beyond those of valence type

Hmm... Structure other than molecular structure... Bonds beyond those of valence type...

Too much mumbo-jumbo as far as I am concerned.


Or, this jewel:

This is the first identification on record of the unknown chemical composition of Aquygen™ Gas, its relationship with the H2O Model 1500 Aquygen™ Gas Generator, and some of its applications.

So, there is composition but it is in fact unknown? And it only exist in relationship with Model 1500?

People, red herring is all over the place.

Originally posted by havetacitblue
Have found the patent for HTA, Inc. (someone said they couldn't find it) -

... the patent application number is 20060075683. The inventors are Klein; Dennis J.; (Belleair, FL) ; Santilli; Ruggero Maria; (Palm Harbor, FL).

The document says that claims 1 through 8 have been cancelled. What does that mean?

Ahhhh... that explains it. The website and all the press stories refer to him as "Denny" when his real name is actually Dennis. Thanks

Claims 1 through 8 have been cancelled means just that.

They are no longer under consideration. This could be because of a voluntary amendment on the part of the applicant or because of an objection by the patent office or perhaps a "restriction requirement" (when it is determined that there is more than one invention in an application you have to choose one and put the other into a "divisional" or "Continuation In Part" application later on).

I don't doubt that they have a viable product to sell (a water torche) but they certainly have not re-invented the laws of physics or invented the perpetual motion machine. It clearly states that the machine runs on water and electricity.
.

You need electricity from the battery in your own car right now to start the engine. That is all it refers too. Then the alternator keeps the battery charged.

You need a source to start your engine, just like you need one at present. Then your fuel makes the engine run. I do not see it necessary to explain the whole mechanics behind how our present day car starts, but that battery is where the electricity comes from. The only difference is our present engines use petroleum based gasoline. We are simply replacing the fuel with this new gas, and remodifying the engine to make it possible. We will still need that battery like always.

Kind of a modern day equal of the old perpetual motion machines isn't it. This simply cannot work. The energy put into the water to separate it into hydrogen gas & oxygen is greater than the energy gained by burning the gas. No amount of tinkering with the system will ever change that fact. As much as I would love for something like this to be true, it just isn't.

[edit on 25-5-2006 by ghaleon12]

Oh man you really are not thinking are you? The energy needed is noly to start the process. It does not continue the process, once the process starts it fuels itself. Thats what your car does now. Your battery starts the process and the engine moves your car by using the fuel, not the battery. Your battery is just their for your radio, wipers, windows, lights etc.. the car itself moves soley on the engine ( assuming we are not talking about hybrids here, which I am not experienced in.)

Originally posted by Nygdan

Its electron orbitals can be 'hybridized' tho, perhaps that is what they are talking about.

No, they can't. Hydrogen has only 1s orbitals. There is nothing to hybridize.

As I said, the Aquygen "science" claims are mumbo jubo of first degree and should never ever be taken seriously.

Well there we have it then Aelita has spoken. It's bogus.

Sure. There are lots of weird and unbelievebale claims and certainly scams surrounding alternate energy. Does that mean all of it is bogus? If that were the case we should write off as bogus the entire medical industry.

Perhaps these are people who can demonstrate a phenomenon and are then trying to provide an explanation. Science went a very long time before it could explain organic chemistry. The idea of a molecule that was structured in a ring was heresy. Violated all the rules of science.

Oxygen can only exist as 02 right? Unless it gets acted on by external energy and then it can be O. Oh right, but then it's possible to get it to be O3 (ozone). H, H2, H3...

I can't say what the technology is behind Klein's generator... or Meyers et al but I'm not sure that anyone here has the inside knowledge to debunk it and the argument that 'it doesn't fit scientific principles' is self-limiting. Scientific principles are a product of observing phenomena and then figuring out an explanation. They are a dynamic 'work-in-progress' and are being changed all the time.



[edit on 26-5-2006 by jtma508]

reply to post by TexasConspiracyNut


Just on the side, has anyone used HHO or browns gas to generate a implosion reaction in a pipe? I've been using various other forms of vapor fuel including propane these past three years. Have seen propane and water vapor collapse into a pinpoint of white light leaving behind a pure stream of oxygen. If you mix propane and mix air with it in a steep pipe and light the end you get the convernsional burn. A nice blue flame with traces of yellow. However, when you get just the right amount of air pressure the flame will slingshot back into the steel pipe and begin to spin. The more BTU's in the vapor fuel the faster the implosion spin. Implosion reactions create their own oxygen. There are times where the copper or stainless pipe goes transparent and you can see right through into the flame while projecting a stream of pure plasma. Just wondering if anyone is experimenting along these lines to build a better heat source. Hydrogen is my next test of choice. Make sure to protect you hearing as the flame pipes themselves can generate well about 100 db's. I'll be glad to hear from anyone on this. Please reply to [email protected].

hi everyone I'm completly new here.
But have been looking at this topic on the net for quite some time now.

I feel that a lot of people are getting the wrong idea here, regarding the whole energy in versus energy out thing.

Fom what i understand:

Conventional car:

Start up and running:
Battery provides the energy to turn the engine and power all other systems, eg radio, cabin lights, and so on. However as soon as the engine is running the current from the battery is reversed, i.e the alternator is charging the battery ON TOP OF powering all of the cars other circuits. this will continue untill the car is shut down.

Car with hho kit:
very much the same aa above however the alternator is ALSO powering the hho generator. I think the reason why it is said it improves mileage is it raises the OVERALL efficency of the car.

so for example if a petrol engine has efficency of 20%,
and the HHO generator has an efficency of 80%,
then surely the overall efficency of the car is increased? say to 35%(??)

At least that is what i am led to believe...

well there really must be some worth in using this technology, as there is a ever growing number of people using it.

looking fwd to more thought provocative reading
cheers.

Dear gents,
Brown's/ Rhodes gas (HHO) or oxyhydrogen has properties and uses still yet unexplained by top experts and scientists.Briefly explained Rhodes gas contains monatomic oxygen and hydrogen, diatomic oxygen and hydrogen, water vapor (steam) and a substance so far called "expanded water" which is a gas which is not steam but a water vapor which is electrically enhanced. It is used for many things, as well as added to an engine via the air intake to increase the combustion of petrol deisel gas etc.Can increase economy up to 100% depending on amount introduced. It is being used in this manner and has been for some time, and many other more amazing things. An interesting site to find a myriad of info on this is freeenergynews.com... This is only one of many sites with tons of info on this subject.
Happy learning. Solomon.

Originally posted by Phugedaboudet
It takes a fixed, given amount of energy to separate H2O into H2 and O.

This statment is 100% inncorrect. It does not take a fixed amount of energy to separate H2O.

H2O is found in 3 common states. Solid, Liquid, Gas. It takes much more energy to separate ice, then it does to separate gas forms of water into H2.

Thanks.

-the genius

[edit on 8-7-2008 by ALLis0NE]