Why are the Freemasons attacked by Trolls

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Sorry, the identity of these people will remain with me. In fact I dont care to know their names or write them down. The Identity's will go with me to the grave.

This is a fair statement. This info is private, very much like the Masonic rituals and handshakes, no?

No, the information has been kept (Occult), to enslave mankind with secret society overloards. The info isnt private, and dosnt belong to those who hide it. The identity of those who supplied it, is private.

Nope ASE, the street has to go both ways, or not at all.

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
So, are all Non-masons, trolls? Or is it just the ones that are thorn in the side of masonry?

Your a troll?!?!
i thought you use to be a super mod here

Yes, I was a super mod. But due to personal issues, I couldnt devote quality time to the board. I became a member shortly after the board opened. I have read virtually all the material presented on this board, over the years. And I was always given a "Free" mind to come to my own findings, decisions, and conclutions. And one of them is always look at who is pointing fingers. They are the ones that have the most to hide!!!

Troll? Sure, if it makes some brainwashed secret society zombie happy, why not. The more they attack, the more I know Im close to the truth.

Keep on with the personal attacks, it shows your true character. Secret society members are traitors to humanity, as a whole.

Originally posted by intrepid
Nope ASE, the street has to go both ways, or not at all.

Uhhh, nope it dosnt. You ever heard of a one way street? ( I suspect that was the idea of some enterprising masons who wanted to cut traffic down to his competitors, LOL )

A one way street make for a closed minded conversation. Not condusive to open discussion. If that's the case then the Masons might be right on this one. Just looking at it as an outsider.

Originally posted by intrepid
A one way street make for a closed minded conversation. Not condusive to open discussion. If that's the case then the Masons might be right on this one. Just looking at it as an outsider.

Oh, dont get me wrong, the conversation can be two way, and I do encourage it. But the identities of those who rat out the rats, that my friend is one way. Your free to make your mind up on all the material you have been exposed to. But remember, once you take an oath to the death your mind is no longer yours..................

The only oath I have taken if for the betterment of ATS.

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
So, are all Non-masons, trolls? Or is it just the ones that are thorn in the side of masonry?

A troll is someone who, like you, makes ABSURD claims while refusing to provide the tiniest shred of evidence to support those claims. You repeat absurd statements that you read somewhere else, without actually using your own brainpower to decide if it could be true or not. In other words, you are a sheep. A sheepish troll.

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Keep on with the personal attacks, it shows your true character. Secret society members are traitors to humanity, as a whole.

Whatever you say buddy... you hate Freemasons and you don't even know why. YEAH, you sure are a free-thinking individual. If you could at least present some VALID, CONCLUSIVE evidence showing us why you say such things, then maybe we can have a more mature conversation.

If you're so sure of the claims you make, then it shoiuld be no problem to demonstrate to us why what you say is true, no? Or are you afraid to be a man and admit that you have no solid evidence to back up the claims you have made? Are you sure those claims are 100% true, when you have not seen any evidence to support this. Of course you HAVE seen evidence that points to the contrary, but chose to ignore it, right?

But as long as you keep slandering masons without anything to back up the claims you made, I will treat you like a troll. That is what you are leading me to believe you are.

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Do your own research. Im not a borther............

We have done our own research, and come to our own conclusions. I came here to learn bout the evil plots of the Illuminati via the Masons, because a friend of mine made some outlandish claims against Masons. I had seen the lodge in my hometown but never gave it a second thought, I figured it was like the Rotary Club or something. The Lions, Elks, Moose, etc.

Then my buddy starts saying all this crap about Masons (he is a big Alex Jones fan, just as a side note), and I started researching. I started with friends and family, asking them what they knew, what they thought. I discovered that I have a family history of Masonry; Both my grandfathers were Masons at one time, at least on great-grandfather, and likely more that I don't know about. This piqued my interest even more, so I started looking on the web and reading as much as I could find. Wanna know where I started? *drumroll* WWW.FREEMASONRYWATCH.ORG!!! *shock and awe*

I read all that crap (that's C-R-A-P) and thought it sounded a little far fetched, seeing as my grandfather, one of the most religious and pious men I have ever known, was involved. The thing was he wasn't a Mason anymore when he died (Six years ago; God rest his soul). In fact he hadn't been a Mason (In good standing, that is. He stopped paying dues but never demitted. what does that say? I'll tell you.) since 1970. I asked my grandmother why he quit, and she told me that he felt that his duty was to God and the Church, and that the Church (not my grandfather) had issue with him being an Elder of the church if he was a Freemason. Not everyone is open minded, apparently. Anyway like I said, he gave up Freemasonry to do what he felt was his duty to God. I believe he remained a Freemason in his heart until the day he died. My grandmother said he loved Masonry, and he was sad to give it up, but his duty to God came before Masonry (Sound familiar?).

So after doing some more googling, I landed here, and Masonic Light, Leveller, Senrak, Mirthful Me, DontTreadOnMe, AlexKennedy, Theron Dunn, Khonsu, JcMinJapan, and several others (the list of people on this site that have my respect is a long one indeed) were here to answer questions and provide GOOD, CREDIBLE, HELPFUL sources for me to learn more. Never once did I feel pressured by them or attacked in any way. Why? Because even when I was skeptical and unsure about the intentions of Masons or Masonry as a whole, I was respectful, and I didn't throw their honest replies back in their faces and call them liars, like you people just love to do.

So I looked at the material provided to me by Masons and friends of Masons and weighed it against the views and allegations of the anti-Mason and well, frankly, anyone who can't see who is telling the truth is either an idiot or they just have their minds made up already.

But I didn't stop there, no sir. I went to the library, looked up books on Masonry and the Scottish Rite; kept asking questions on ATS and TLR; kept reading all I could find on either side of the argument; went TO THE LODGE and asked the local Masons in my home town about it. I have been to the lodge, seen the lodge room, seen the officer installation ceremony, had coffee with the WM back home on several occasions, presented my ideas and concerns, and ALWAYS have the Masons here and elsewhere treated me with respect and dignity.

So don't you EVER accuse me of not doing my own research, and if you are even HALF a man you will pony up some evidence, or at LEAST some kind of compelling personal account of WHY you attack Masonry.

All Seeing Eye, if you can't even make a convincing statement of why YOU YOURSELF have a problem with masonry, well then I say this may as well be your portrait:



Axeman out.

Originally posted by sebatwerk
A troll is someone who, like you, makes ABSURD claims while refusing to provide the tiniest shred of evidence to support those claims. You repeat absurd statements that you read somewhere else, without actually using your own brainpower to decide if it could be true or not. In other words, you are a sheep. A sheepish troll.

Kinda funny how the 2 guys defending Masonry in this thread AGAIN turn to a dirty and childish attack on ASE. Just keep going like that guys, you'll just end up proving other people's points that way.

Thing is, when reading the above quote, I have to come to the conclussion that you 2, the masons or mason defenders must be trolls too, you blindly believe everything you've been told, you don't support your claims and even worse, you make total jackasses out of yourselves by constantly attacking ASE's person instead of having a conversation.


[edit on 16-4-2005 by thematrix]

I just wanted to comment that as an observer this thread has made a point about the apparent inconsistencies regarding the principles Freemasons give lip service to and their actual behavior. It is one thing to defend your honor and quite another to stoop to the immature and unseemly actions displayed in this thread and many others by those who claim to be defending their fraternity. I do not want to generalize as there are also posters here defending Freemasonry that have eloquantly expressed themselves without contradicting the values they claim to adhere to.

I have nothing against Freemasonry and what little I have read about it is from threads on this board. I can understand why they would get defensive due to the never ending attacks directed towards them, but histrionics and childish name calling on some of their parts do not serve well to support their case. I recall something being said about "keeping a tongue of good report".

It seems that one would do better to improve their character by learning operative masonry or some other useful discipline. This statement is not meant as an attack but rather the initial conclusion that I have come to after briefly looking into the subject. I am open to the possibility that what I have witnessed is not representative of Freemasonry in general and merely an internet aberration or a misunderstanding on my part.


Steve


[edit on 4/16/0505 by sntx]

Originally posted by sntx
I just wanted to comment that as an observer this thread has made its point about the apparent inconsistencies regarding the principles Freemasons give lip service to and their actual behavior. It is one thing to defend your honor and quite another to stoop to the immature and unseemly actions displayed in this thread and many others by those who claim to be defending their fraternity. I do not want to generalize as there are also posters here defending Freemasonry that have eloquantly expressed themselves without contradicting the values they claim to adhere to.

I have nothing against Freemasonry and what little I have read about it is from threads on this board. I can understand why they would get defensive due to the never ending attacks directed towards them, but histrionics and childish name calling on some of their parts do not serve well to support their case. I recall something being said about "keeping a tongue of good report".

It seems that one would do better to improve their character by learning operative masonry or some other useful discipline. This statement is not meant as an attack but rather the initial conclusion that I have come to after briefly looking into the subject. I am open to the possibility that what I have witnessed is not representative of Freemasonry in general and merely an internet aberration or a misunderstanding on my part.


Steve

This was applauded.

This post was the most insightful and well worded post in this forum in months. Well done.

I hope both sides takes heed of these words.

Originally posted by thematrix
Thing is, when reading the above quote, I have to come to the conclussion that you 2, the masons or mason defenders must be trolls too, you blindly believe everything you've been told, you don't support your claims and even worse, you make total jackasses out of yourselves by constantly attacking ASE's person instead of having a conversation.

We have provided BOOKS worth of true, verifiable information with links and references to where they can be shown to be fact. But after repeated requests to produce evidence of his claims, and after dozens of OFFENSIVE slander coming from him, we can tell that he is not interested in an adult, logical conversation. So we're done dealing with him, plain and simple.

All I have EVER done is support my claims with proof. Ask any of the moderators here, and they will back me up on this. And everything I speak of is from PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE. I am a Freemason, and know what I am talking about. I have done exhaustive research on the fraternity, I know MANY masons and have been to MANY different lodges and meetings throughout the world. I know what I'm talking about in regards to Freemasonry.

But you gotta understand that most of our time isn't spent making claims, it's spent refuting other people's. We have provided so much correct, truthful and accurate information on this forum that we could make several books from it. But people don't believe us. They think we take an oath to lie and defraud people, and no matter how consistent and verifiable our answers are, people always think we're lying. And at some point you just need to give up and ask THEM to back up their claims with proof. The burden of proof IS on the prosecution, is it not?

Originally posted by sntx
I can understand why they would get defensive due to the never ending attacks directed towards them, but histrionics and childish name calling on some of their parts do not serve well to support their case. I recall something being said about "keeping a tongue of good report".

Your post is very correct and well-worded, but I do not agree with one thing you said. Several people have said this recently:

"[the] childish name calling on some of their parts do not serve well to support their case'

Why is it that the way we are behaving and replying to attacks would mean that Freemasons truly are satan worshippers who want to bring about the enslavement of mankind? That makes no sense whatsoever and our behavior does nothing to support people's claims that Freemasons are evil child-eating satanists!

I agree that the behavior is immature, but we are SICK TO DEATH of repeating ourselves and giving people truthful, accurate information and having people just call us liars, dis-information agents and say that we are sworn to lie to people so nothing we say could be true... so why should we care? If nobody is going to believe what I say, then I am done making the effort I have made in the past to give people truthful information.


[edit on 16-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

Sorry, the identity of these people will remain with me. In fact I dont care to know their names or write them down. The Identity's will go with me to the grave. As far as documentation, very few secret societies keep records of their mis-deeds.

Your free to make your mind up on all the material you have been exposed to

I believe I detect the distinct aroma of bovine feces.

Do your own research. Im not a borther.........

We might be better able to decide the truth of this statement if you would be so kind as to define

borther

.

I do suspect however the definition may be close to,

All the claims on this board THAT I HAVE SEEN have been against individual Masons.

Its only the Masons that say we have accused the WHOLE LOT. And they say it often enough that we actually believe that at one point someone (Nameless, anonymous person) actually said ALL of Freemasonry is a conspiracy of the highest evil.

But who has said that? Who has said the second you become a Mason, you are inherently evil? No ONE! And yet, that is how claims are debased, deflected, and defended.

And then, people go off defending the Occult, and the right to Privacy, etc. Why can't it be admitted that doing rituals, and memorizing verse is in itself beneficial, but that it can also be a slippery slope to more, for SOME.

For example, looking more and more to 'exclusive clubs' to help you escape your normal life, and enhance it with 'risky but encouraged' behavior.

And so, why can it not be admitted that some people who join secret societies may acquire STRANGE tastes, due to their lust for secrecy?

Originally posted by akilles
All the claims on this board THAT I HAVE SEEN have been against individual Masons.

Its only the Masons that say we have accused the WHOLE LOT. And they say it often enough that we actually believe that at one point someone (Nameless, anonymous person) actually said ALL of Freemasonry is a conspiracy of the highest evil.

But who has said that? Who has said the second you become a Mason, you are inherently evil? No ONE! And yet, that is how claims are debased, deflected, and defended.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG. MOST of the people on this forum making claims against Freemasonry do so regarding ALL of masonry. We have defended ourselves from that position deveral times. But it HAS been stated that masons are all crooks, that we worship the devil, that we are going to hell, that our rituals are sinister, etc etc etc. All that slander has almost ALWAYS been against all of us. You can do a search through this thread and find HUNDREDS of examples of this.

Even you have Akilles. Not always, but you have made some very sarcastic remarks alluding to the practices of all masons.

The beginning posts are on: Masons make personal attacks on here far to often. And asking for documentation when we are talking about conspiracy is both foolish and oversimplifying things. Ther only thing we can do is give people on here who have something to say a certain degree of credibility. I admit, however, that some claims (negative) are absurd - just broad sweeping streams of consciousness to be dismissed swiftly.

But to those that say they have spoken to Masons who have said x, just as the Masons yearn for proof, so too do we yearn for proof of your rebuttals, which usually end up in links which direct one to a Masonic text or, unfortunately, personal attacks. And true, no one person is going to speak for the entire organization, that is why both campaigns are flawed if they carry that mandate. Posting large digital pictures of trolls is, I am sure to most, not too respectable. If there are many more people like you in the frat...

Originally posted by Guy Kawasaki
The beginning posts are on: Masons make personal attacks on here far to often. And asking for documentation when we are talking about conspiracy is both foolish and oversimplifying things.

We do not ask of proof of theories... We ask for proof when someone states something as being a fact. If someone said "I believe" or "i heard that..", we just discuss it and that's it. But if someone tells me "this is the way it is", I will ask them to back it up. There's nothing foolish about it.

But to those that say they have spoken to Masons who have said x, just as the Masons yearn for proof, so too do we yearn for proof of your rebuttals, which usually end up in links which direct one to a Masonic text

We have provided links to LEGITIMATE sources, referenced pages in books, and overall shown people why we make our claims. Nobody else has ever given us a legitimate reason to make the claims they do.

Posting large digital pictures of trolls is, I am sure to most, not too respectable. If there are many more people like you in the frat...

We resort to making each other laugh. When we get tired of repeating the same things and refuting the same lies over and over again, we try to mix it up a little by joking around. Big deal. This forum is supposed to be about entertainment. And you, sir, do not know me in person. So for you to make that kind of statement about my character is inherently beyond your abilities.