Why are the Freemasons attacked by Trolls

Originally posted by MrNECROS
It was answered thusly:

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Intrepid, you could always leave them (or can you?)

You *should* know the truth, what I think is largely irrelevant.
If you know yourself to be a coward, a liar and a Freemason then you have to live with that not me.
Proof is not required.

Are you trying to give me yet another warning for saying that I believe you are a Freemason?

Nope, you got the second one for calling FM's cowards and liars.

You're up mate.

Kids, prove it and do this and that. This area of ABT is a joke. I have lost any remaining respect I had for Masons on this thread. Nothing more than dogmatic, pushy children.

Originally posted by Guy Kawasaki
Kids, prove it and do this and that. This area of ABT is a joke. I have lost any remaining respect I had for Masons on this thread. Nothing more than dogmatic, pushy children.

Dogmatic, pushy children? 'Tis better than being ignorant.

All we've ever done is defend ourselves from the DOGMATIC and PUSHY claims, attacks and slander spit out by your kind. Then you have the nerve to call US dogmatic? Gimme a break Guy, we have every right in the world to demand evidence for the offensive claims made ABOUT US.


[edit on 16-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
I dont hate freemasonry, I hate the oath to the death, a oath by design to hide the guilty. I hate when a group protects themselves at the expense of all others and then use charity to hide behind.

ASE

I have been posting to this site for only a short period and already I have answered this question three times and posted portions of the ritual up to back it up.

Freemasons do not take an oath to the death. In my ritual the 'punishment' for revealing the secrets of masonry is to be branded a 'wilfully perjured individual'. The ritual specifically states that the traditional penalties, which were only ever symbolic, are not necessary.

Conclusive, incontravertable proof is very hard to come by when discussing topics in internet forums. The best we can hope for is (a) taking fellow posters at their word until they demonstrate outright lies and (b) view all the circumstantial evidence as objectively as possible. Lets you and I do this.

My 'evidence' regarding the oath is as follows:

1. Although ritual varies, sometimes quite significantly, there is enough posted ritual up on the internet for you to search and read the oaths for yourself. Anti-mason sites are a good place to start.

2. Talking of anti-masons, some of them are former masons, and some of them are quite happily spilling the beans on the secrets they promised not to. Why are they still alive?

3. Why, in fact, have there been NO deaths (that I can think of) caused by implementation of the traditional penalties, despite the many thousands of people who must have left freemasonry over the hundreds of years it has existed.

4. Freemasons have three guiding principles; demonstration of brotherly love (to everyone, not just masons), giving (of time and money) to charity, and the exercise and promulgation of Truth in all its guises. These aims are well documented on many masonic websites. Why would millions of members who subscribe to these worthy ideals resort to murder?

I have also posted portions of the ritual to demonstrate that masons do not hide the guilty. We are specifically charged to put God, our Country, our family, the law of the land and even the moral law before assisting anyone, freemason or otherwise. Breaking the law is a no-no (well, OK, perhaps speeding a little is allowed . In my third degree obligation I promised to 'keep my brother's lawful secrets as mine own'. Note lawful.

Given that I know for a fact that your fears about freemasonry are ill-founded, perhaps you'd like to share with us how you came to these conclusions about the fraternity? I have read that you wish to keep the identity of your sources private, but surely you are able to discuss what they said in a little more detail. As for corruption, I'm afraid I've not seen any. Sorry.

Please don't feel sad for me. Freemasonry has been good to me. I've developed as a person, met some great people and come to a much better understanding of religion and spirituality.

I'm still waiting for those back-scratching favours though

Originally posted by Guy Kawasaki
Kids, prove it and do this and that. This area of ABT is a joke. I have lost any remaining respect I had for Masons on this thread. Nothing more than dogmatic, pushy children.

OK. Lets raise the bar. Proof is hard to come by but I can argue pretty convincingly. I am a mason and I am now on this thread. Feel free to ask me anything you like about masonry and I'll try to answer to the best of my ability. Although I would rather not repeat exhaustive replies I have given recently on other threads.

There is bound to be conflict in this area of ATS as its the only area where the subjects of conspiratorial complaints are responding. I don't see the federal government, aliens, the military or members of the NWO posting much in their defence! Perhaps that's an indication that freemasons are a little different, and perhaps not as some conspiratorialists believe.

Freemasons do get quite frustrated as urban myths about the fraternity are constantly rehashed, sometimes portrayed by the poster as 'truth'. Of course some people are never going to believe us, but I guess I'll get over that .

So we're all going to calm down now and see if we can't actually tackle some real questions. Right?

Originally posted by sebatwerk


Your post is very correct and well-worded, but I do not agree with one thing you said. Several people have said this recently:

"[the] childish name calling on some of their parts do not serve well to support their case'

Why is it that the way we are behaving and replying to attacks would mean that Freemasons truly are satan worshippers who want to bring about the enslavement of mankind? That makes no sense whatsoever and our behavior does nothing to support people's claims that Freemasons are evil child-eating satanists!

I should have been clearer. I did not even hint that I believed any of the things mentioned in the quoted text above were true of Freemasons. If that is what I believed I wouldn't have said that I have nothing against Freemasonry. I was merely pointing out that some of the posts I have seen coming from some of those defending your fraternity seem to be inconsistent with the principles generally associated with Masonry by said defenders. In my eyes such apparent hypocrisy tarnishes credibility. I was in no way sticking up for those people making baseless accusations against Masonry.

Steve

Originally posted by Trinityman
There is bound to be conflict in this area of ATS as its the only area where the subjects of conspiratorial complaints are responding. I don't see the federal government, aliens, the military or members of the NWO posting much in their defence! Perhaps that's an indication that freemasons are a little different, and perhaps not as some conspiratorialists believe.

Your quote above is probably one of the most appropriate, on-the-dot correct statements I HAVE EVER READ HERE ON ATS. You should be commended for the unique insight you just provided us. I have NEVER thought of it in this was before. If I could, I'd give you all three of my votes for Way Above Top Secret.

Originally posted by Trinityman
There is bound to be conflict in this area of ATS as its the only area where the subjects of conspiratorial complaints are responding. I don't see the federal government, aliens, the military or members of the NWO posting much in their defence! Perhaps that's an indication that freemasons are a little different, and perhaps not as some conspiratorialists believe.

Please be so kind as to activate your sense of humor before reading this post. If you do not have a sense of humor, you may obtain one in the ATS Store for only 72,321 points.


This is, evidently, because Freemasons are fairly far down on the Secret Society food chain. Afterall, they are assigned toliet exploding duties while the Bilderburgers are off running international banking and the Council on Foreign Relations is pulling the strings in the State Department.

It makes sense, therefor, that the Masons, when they aren't busy with plumbing and trying to get lizards to give them more instructions, are tasked with answering posts on ATS. It is related, in fashion, to their other duties.

Thank you for this insight into the Conspiracy Chain of Command.

[edited for grammar - driley]



[edit on 17-4-2005 by driley]

Damn. Exposed.

And just when I had perfected my new dog laxative.

the guy who posted this blog isnt even a real mason, a real mason knows how to spell hahaha, and isnt dumb enough to try and prove something to people with college level knowledge whod easily know how fake this person really is

im not saying all masons on here are fake, just the one posting the blog.


''as a freemasons.'' lmao!

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
the guy who posted this blog isnt even a real mason, a real mason knows how to spell hahaha, and isnt dumb enough to try and prove something to people with college level knowledge whod easily know how fake this person really is

im not saying all masons on here are fake, just the one posting the blog.

Actually I know the guy that started the thread to be a real Freemason. So much for your theory, but thanks for playing. So who is the one trying to prove things to people who are much more intelligent than that? YOU ARE.

Besides, I have my doubts as to whether or not you are really college-educated. Someone with a college education should be more tactful in what he says, and choose more eloquent words to use. Just a thought.



[edit on 17-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

Someone with a college education should be more tactful in what he says

Theres 2 Mason related threads I'm following atm and in both the main mudslinging, tactless and tasteless namecalling is done by ... you?

Don't tell others how they "should" act if your not planning on following the rules of conduct your trying to impose on them.

My $2.00 (inflation and all) off non-masonic opinion.

IMHO, the Masons here do tend to overreact to the trolls, BUT I totally understand why and sympathize with them.

I myself have been totally frustrated at time over silly stuff but I am more used to it I guess . For example: I am a Thelemite which means I follow the teachings of Aleister Crowley (AKA Satanist, The Great Beast 666, The Wickedest Man on Earth, bla bla bla) Last month I went to the book shop (Big national chain) to pickup a new copy of The Holy Books of Thelema (The Thelemic "Bible") as my copy was falling apart. The guy behind the counter REFUSED to ring me up because it was a "Satanic" book. I had to wait 1 min until the manager was free and he rung me up.

All this because of an Anonymous "John Bull" (John Bull is the English version of the US Uncle Sam) writer in an English Tabloid almost 80 years ago. Other than a nasty email to the company, I took it in stride simply because I'm used to it.

Sorry that turned into my $4.00.. keep the change.

Originally posted by thematrix

Someone with a college education should be more tactful in what he says

Theres 2 Mason related threads I'm following atm and in both the main mudslinging, tactless and tasteless namecalling is done by ... you?

Don't tell others how they "should" act if your not planning on following the rules of conduct your trying to impose on them.

And maybe if you read a little further, you would see my posts in which I apologized to the people I treated so rudely yesterday. So perhaps you should get the whole story before forming an opinion...?

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
the guy who posted this blog isnt even a real mason, a real mason knows how to spell hahaha, and isnt dumb enough to try and prove something to people with college level knowledge whod easily know how fake this person really is

I'm not saying all masons on here are fake, just the one posting the blog.


''as a freemasons.'' lmao!

I am a Past Master of 1316 Dunedin Caritas SC. IBro Gerard

[edit on 17-4-2005 by Gerard]

Originally posted by Gerard
I am a Past Master of 1316 Dunedin Caritas SC. I am a PZ, MEJ, 417 Journeyman Masons Chapter, PWCN, PTIM of the Councils attached to this RAC. I am a PP St John Can Kil Preceptory all SC and a member of several other orders in Scotland and a member of 2 OSM Conclave's in England. I am a genuine Freemason and willing to stand up for Freemasonry.

Do not be distressed, Brother, by what ignorant people believe. I have also been accused of not being a Freemason, (I was told I was very bad at "faking it")and I just ignored it. Big deal, they can think whatever they want. What matters is that your brothers on this forum know who you are and will vouch for you without hesitation.

"the guy behind the counter REFUSED to ring me up"

Awww, so sad to hear the guy at the Book store ACTUALLY had the time on his hands to look at all books in the section, and decided to term the one you were attempting to buy 'Satanic' as a warning to you.

Why do you assume he was MISINFORMED just because of the word he used?

I mean, what is another good term that has a strongly negative connotation of PARTIAL truth?

My father and grandfather were Masons. My Mother was aways bugging me to join because she likes to go to the various Masonic events.
Before I did join I looked at the anti web sites. The freemason watch site is realy funny, there appears to be less than half a dozen people bashing Masons. Its getting even more funny because they are running out of bad things that the Masons have done or are doing. The last I looked they are complaining about the color of carpets in lodges.
Its the Anti Masons that spurred my decision to join.

Don

Originally posted by akilles
"the guy behind the counter REFUSED to ring me up"

Awww, so sad to hear the guy at the Book store ACTUALLY had the time on his hands to look at all books in the section, and decided to term the one you were attempting to buy 'Satanic' as a warning to you.

Why do you assume he was MISINFORMED just because of the word he used?

I mean, what is another good term that has a strongly negative connotation of PARTIAL truth?

If by this you mean another word to describe this clerk who seemed to believe that he had the right to decide what everyone should or should not be allowed to read, then how about these.........

Censor

Propagandist

Ignorant

Arrogant

And hopefully...

Unemployed

Originally posted by HDFACTORYCERTIF
My father and grandfather were Masons. My Mother was aways bugging me to join because she likes to go to the various Masonic events.
Before I did join I looked at the anti web sites. The freemason watch site is realy funny, there appears to be less than half a dozen people bashing Masons. Its getting even more funny because they are running out of bad things that the Masons have done or are doing. The last I looked they are complaining about the color of carpets in lodges.
Its the Anti Masons that spurred my decision to join.

It's actually been a long-standing theory, among some groups of masons, that anti-masons actually do more good for the fraternity than bad. I agree that some of the more outrageous statements only allow thinking people to understand that there is no truth behind them, and actually turn them TOWARDS masonry to find out what the truth is. But some anti-masons are a little more slimy than others, and their claims, while not provable, do have a bit of plausibility to them, at least to someone who is not familiar with the Craft.


[edit on 17-4-2005 by sebatwerk]