Otto von Bismarck about Russia and Ukraine

originally posted by: RussianTroll

originally posted by: G1111B1234
a reply to: andy06shake


People need to let go of the past if they’re to move forward .

People and nations that do not know and do not want to know their past have no future.

And people who lie about their past also have no future

originally posted by: RussianTroll
The only way to weaken Russia, according to Bismarck, is to divide the people, to set one part of it against another.

And Putin has accomplished this perfectly. The Freedom of Russia Legion is growing in numbers. So many demonstrations at the polls this past election. Putin is destroying his beloved Russia.

a reply to: RussianTroll

You're supposed to learn from the past not repeat the same historical transgressions.

Mad Vlad wants to be you're modern-day Stalin.

Good luck with that, because the world spun.

And all he has served to achieve is to make Russia the European pariah for the foreseeable future.

a reply to: RussianTroll

I see you're refusing to acknowledge the fact the quotes you posted about Bismark are pure fabrication (also stated by the Bismark Foundation in Germany) and were created and posted to Facebook of all things by Russians as a way of making the west appear anti-russian, and a way of stoking the fire of western hate in the Russian people.
Trying to use ATS to push your agenda is dispicable and shows your membership here is all about trying to promoting hate and lie to a wider audience outside of Russia.

a reply to: Kurokage

Hence the fascination with the very things and people he professes to hate, or claims hate him.

Textbook "paradoxical fascination" really.

a reply to: RussianTroll

Ww2 Germany had a good go at the then USSR RT , Stalin had the biggest military in the world pre 1939 www.ncesc.com...


My grandfather sailed many times on the artic convoys to the USSR and I have read through what those ships carried ,which is staggering and to think Britain did not have one tank to defend itself after Dunkirk and the USSR had tens of thousands.

Many speculate that Joe Stalin was ready to roll across Europe if Adolph had not attacked ? The then USSR

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Kurokage

Hence the fascination with the very things and people he professes to hate, or claims hate him.

Textbook "paradoxical fascination" really.

I agree Andy, I think someone so against the west wouldn't want to be here, and yet here he is. I mean every other thread is pure anti-west propaganda, and the Mods don't seem bothered weither it's true or not. It's one thing to post opinions on something but something very different when he posts known lies and fabrications (which is against the T&Cs)

The Bismark comments posted by RT are proven lies by Russian Trolls on Facebook, the German Bismark Foundation proved this, these were posted in 2013 (a bit after Bismarks death).

a reply to: stonerwilliam

Props to your grandfather stonerwilliam.

He did a man's job and those convoys were apparently pure murder.

Quite literary sometimes without a proper escort.

They were also a lifeline that kept Russia in the fight and be able to repel and withstand the Nazi aggressors.

a reply to: andy06shake

It was when I got older and worked offshore and in oil rig construction that I realised a little of what those boys went through back then .

The one that he always went on about was a convoy to Malta where only 3 or 4 ships made it through and he was on one , he sounded like uncle Albert from only fools and horses with the amount of times he was torpedoed or sunk

a reply to: RussianTroll

Said like a blind man, as if we go around thinking an eye for an eye will work , we’d all be walking around blind.

a reply to: stonerwilliam

My grandfather was on the old S class subs and then HMS Searcher.

One thing he mentioned about those convoys was touching anything outside without gloves could well lose you a finger or two given the extreme temperatures.

www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk...
en.wikipedia.org...(1931)

a reply to: andy06shake

Yip I was horrified in school when they mentioned that steaks were carved of horses as they walked along in the Russian winters .

I have seen it a few times where you take a steaming hot mug of coffee and walk outside and throw it up in the air and it comes back down as ice

a reply to: RussianTroll

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Be nice if you would acknowledge the fact that your "quotes" are made up?

a reply to: GogolJoker

This message was recently conveyed to me:

By whom?

Europe still hasn't understood, just leave the Russians alone and they'll just live peacefully not bothering anyone. But no... the idiocy of the last 300 years by Europe has taught them nothing. 

Out of all of your bogus claims you've written so far this is the most ignorant one. This is just plain insanity. Are you going to step into Lenin's shoes and try to rewrite Russia's history. I guess, just like Lenin, you can't stomach Russian Tsars and their filthy imperialism, can you? So you chose to ignore the wars with the Ottoman Empire which resulted in Russia obtaining large swaths of land in Asia and Europe, the partition of Poland, incorporation of Finland and the colonial expansion in Asia and North America.

This is the quote from Wiki:

By the start of the 19th century, Russian territory extended from the Arctic Ocean in the north to the Black Sea in the south, and from the Baltic Sea in the west to Alaska, Hawaii, and California in the east. By the end of the 19th century, Russia had expanded its control over the Caucasus, most of Central Asia and parts of Northeast Asia

Mind boggling, isn't it?

Not that the Soviets dismissed imperialism altogether if we recall their march into the West in 1920. And of course the infamous pact Ribbentrop Molotov.

eliminating nationalism is possible by eliminating feelings of fear and suspicion.

Bulls**t. Nationalism in Russia has always had an imperial character. It doesn't stem from fear and it never stemmed from fear but rather from the conviction that Russia has a special messianic destiny to dominate in Asia and Europe and expand its territory. It was evident in Pan-Slavic movement, the desire to unite all Slavs under the Russian rule, the theory of All Russian Nation and calling Russian Empire the Third Rome.

That imperial nationalism permeates the Russian literature, music and art. Its primitive and brutal form is visible today in Dugin's pseudo-philosophical ramblings about an Euro-Asian Empire, its soft and romantic form could be found in Navalny's Beautiful Russia of the Future. Of course, Putin supports the former, hence the invasion of Ukraine. That imperial Russian nationalism was the direct cause of the war.

And Bismarck's international policy was that of keeping balance. After receiving the gift from Russians - the Miracle of the House of Brandenburg - Germans didn't need a new war, especially after having their ass kicked in the Seven Years War. The historians still can't reach a consensus whether the resignation from the occupation of Berlin and granting Germany a generous peace treaty was the tsar Peter's stupidity or there was some strategic point to it.

All things considered, I still think that the largest Geo - political blunders in all history, was one, not backing Patton's desire to take on the USSR after the defeat of Nazi Germany and two, not supporting MacArthur and his vision to take on the CCP. Would've spared the entire world so much misery. And in the current situation, the only reason the U.S. Army is not occupying Moscow, is the slightest chance that one or more of their old nukes might actually function 👍

a reply to: twistedpuppy


Russian ruling class has allways been mentally sick , last centuries at last . That is the one big issue they have , and what makes them act like they do....they are mentally sick .

Russian Paranoia

Does Russia Suffer From "Paranoid Government Disorder”?

a reply to: Kenzo

Plus the amount poor sods that ""accidentally"" fall out windows is rather alarming to say the least.

Autodefenestration central really.

This quote "The power of Russia can only be undermined by the separation of Ukraine from it" was attributed to Bismarck by the German philosopher E. Hartmann. Other quotes like "never fight the Russians”, “Russians cannot be defeated”, “do not tease the Russian bear”, “start any wars, but never touch the Russians” weren't uttered by Bismarck either but were invented by unknown Russian myth makers.

Bismarck's attitude to Russia was ambiguous. He surely didn't want a war with Russia because he thought there's no conflict of interests. However, he was very critical of the Russian bureaucracy for its corruption, incompetence, arbitrariness and the lack of respect for the law and human dignity:

“In my opinion, the most serious danger for the Russian state is the long-term, incurable harm from the corruption of officials and officers; it results in the absence of any justice and force of law, which makes it impossible to raise public welfare and finances”

Several pages of Bismarck's memoirs are devoted to the corruption among officials, thefts at court and the bribes petitioners had to pay.

His attitude to the Russian elites was also ambivalent. He worried about the liberal attitudes among the elite that seeked to limit the power of the monarchy:

“Three generations were present in Petersburg society during my stay. The most noble of them, the European and classically educated grandees of the era of Alexander I, was already dying out ˂…˃ The generation that looked like Emperor Nicholas or bore his imprint was limited in conversation to court affairs, theater, career and military memories ˂…˃ The third generation, young gentlemen, in society showed for the most part less politeness, bad manners and, as a rule, a stronger aversion to everything German, especially Prussian, than the first two generations"

Likewise ambivalent was Bismarck's attitude to ordinary Russian people. He viewed positively their courtesy, elegance, loyalty to the leader and the ability to put the interests of their country abover their own. However, he criticized their narcissism, touchiness and the tendency to overestimate their capabilities.

All in all, for Bismarck his country was the first to care about. He was willing to have good relationships with Russia as long as it served Germany's interests:

“When asked whether I am for the Russians or the Western powers, I always answered for the Prussians, and my ideal in foreign policy is freedom from prejudice and independence from sympathies or antipathies towards foreign states and their rulers”

This is an interesting article for everyone who wants to know what Bismarck really thought about Russia and what he really wrote:

"The most serious danger for the Russian state is the corruption of officials”: ​​the Russian people, bureaucracy and the Russian elite in the views of Otto von Bismarck

originally posted by: RussianTroll
So, Otto von Bismarck wrote:

“Even the most successful outcome of the war will never lead to the collapse of Russia, which rests on millions of Russian believers of the Greek confession.
These latter, even if they are separated as a result of international treaties, will reconnect with each other as quickly as separated droplets of mercury find their way to each other.”

“Don’t expect that once you take advantage of Russia’s weakness, you will receive dividends forever. The Russians always come for their money. And when they come, don’t rely on the Jesuit agreements you signed that supposedly exonerate you. They are not worth the paper they are written on. Therefore, you should either play fairly with the Russians, or not play at all."

“The Russians cannot be defeated, this indestructible state of the Russian nation is strong with its climate, its spaces and its unpretentiousness, as well as their awareness of the need to constantly protect their borders.”

Or, to put it more succinctly:

a reply to: andy06shake


And they " removed" tens of millions people during the USSR . Removed= killed . Most likely many were smarter . What happens when society removes millions of people....a downspiral ? The big problem with total dictatorships has been that it wont tolerate " normal people " . And it`s happen right now also, a lot Russians who oppose the war have fled....they loose smarter people as a whole society......and what`s then left is those who think Putin is doing good job , the less smarter people.