Mormons baptizing Jews, posthumously

How can you baptize someone if their dead?

Originally posted by Croat56
How can you baptize someone if their dead?

It's done by proxy. They have somebody living substitute for the deceased in Mormon temples. It's just like a regular Mormon baptism, except that part of the ceremonial words goes something like, "I baptize you Bob, in place of Jim, who is dead."

Just for the record they dont really REPRSENT Jesus. If they did they would go by his example of baptisim...which was people that were ALIVE choose to do it.

oh and that whole part about not adding books to the bible and changing the meaning of any of the words...but that is a whole another discussion reserved under a different post.

Kind Regards,
Digital Grl

[edit on 10/01/2004 by DigitalGrl]

House Of Representatives

Originally posted by DigitalGrl
Just for the record they dont really REPRSENT Jesus.

As best I can tell, NO one truly represents Jesus.

However, there are plenty who MISrepresent him and falsely claim otherwise.

If we are to believe many of the words attributed to him, he bitterly predicted this would be the case.

Upon such precarious foundations are religions built.

"Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." -- Morpheus

Netchicken,

I think you will find that all religions are "kooky"

Cheers

BHR

As I understand it...

The Mormon version of Purgatory is called Jail. This is where the souls of the worthy but unbaptized go to await final judgement. Just as Paul "ministered to souls in Jail," so Mormons seek to release these souls through proxy baptism.

It is a part of their belief that once the proxy baptism occurs, the soul has a chance to accpet or reject it.

I think, in the case of Jews etc, the practice is remarkably insensitive, but I don't think it is intended to be evil or discourteous.

If you truly believe that you are offering people a chance at salvation (or, even, Salvation) through this sort of ritual, why would you let a little matter like courtesy or cultural sensitivity stand in your way?

Mormons do have an unusual cosmology. But it is no more... remarkable... than that of many other faiths.

I am a Mormon, and driley has everything right except the terminology. It's not jail. It's usually called the spirit world. As for the baptizing of Jews, well, we certainly didn't mean any harm or offense by it, but this is something the leaders of my church and the leaders of Judaism will have to work out. The way I see it, at worst, we are wasting our time baptizing for the dead presuming mormons are mistaken, the middle case is the dead person rejects it, and best case we help some dead person get into heaven, presuming mormons are right. Obviously, some Jews don't see it that way, though, and I can respect that. It's a difficult issue, and I hope the leaders of the two churches can agree on a solution.

My apologies for the inaccuracy in terminolgy. I was working from a memory of a conversattion with a Mormon missionary. Perhaps I mistook his reference to a scriptural passage for a "term of art." Or maybe my memory was simply faulty.

Nonetheless, I'm glad I got the substance correct.

I don't see anything that really needs to be "worked out". Mormons have their beliefs and jews have theirs. No other religion has a right to go and baptize someone if they dont want it. So i suppose the only thing that needs to be worked out is people minding their own business.

Kind Regards,
Digital Grl

Dear all,

What explanation has been given by the Mormon Church for the continuance of this practice despite the request?

Cheers

BHR

So where the rights performed or did some over zealous later day saint build up the archive for appearances sake...if the rights where performed then removing their names from the data base does not remove the intrusion apon their beliefs, and the shell or temple they shall reclaim when the dead in Christ are risen from their graves first to be With Christ in the clouds and those who are alive and remain shall fallow the dead in Christ. This is a religious attrocity that cant be repaired by hiding the names we need to know where the ancestors of maybe millions desicrated in death.




The poor Jews killed in the Holocost for their religion , then just when they are free of their pain and suffering someone desicrates the temple IE body.
Sick man just sick




[edit on 14/4/2005 by drbryankkruta]

Is it people of the Jewish faith? Is it the Mormons? I think God is in charge. Let me go on the extreme end here if I may - If I die and a Satanist uses my bones (or dust, I'm thinking cremation for me) for some evil rite, will I be pulled away from God? I think not.

Originally posted by saint4God
Is it people of the Jewish faith? Is it the Mormons? I think God is in charge. Let me go on the extreme end here if I may - If I die and a Satanist uses my bones (or dust, I'm thinking cremation for me) for some evil rite, will I be pulled away from God? I think not.

My intent in no way was to indicate the actions seperated the Jews from God rather that a desicration had taken place wether it be a desicration by speech or by action I cant yet decide which actually happened till I know if the rights where actually performed.

The desicration of cross religion right administration without concent and willing participation is a punishable offense in most faith and can and does lead to deflocking.....As a Chaplain I took an oath to God that in part says I will spread the word ....not force the word apon someone in any means....the post mortum rights or pre death administration of rights apon a person who is not a willing participant is a crime against man, a crime against the church, BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY a crime against God thru betrayal of your oath to him to do his will ...and his will is that no man be justified in his persence without first personally excepting God into themselves and seeking salvation thru the Blood of the Lamb.









[edit on 14/4/2005 by drbryankkruta]

if this were purely a civil matter, the families of these double-victims would now own the stinking rich Mormon church.

"Hot dung in perforated baskets for your mouths oh ye witches!" - Talmudic curse

Sorry Dr.B, I wasn't targeting any post in particular, just giving my overall response to the situation.

Originally posted by drbryankkruta
The desicration of cross religion right administration without concent and willing participation is a punishable offense in most faith and can and does lead to deflocking.....

What's deflocking? Can you break it down for this simple saint please?

Originally posted by drbryankkruta
As a Chaplain

Totally dig that you are, glad you're here I have questions but don't want to go off topic here so prolly best I save them for later.

Originally posted by drbryankkruta
I took an oath to God that in part says I will spread the word ....not force the word apon someone in any means....the post mortum rights or pre death administration of rights apon a person who is not a willing participant is a crime against man, a crime against the church, BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY a crime against God thru betrayal of your oath to him to do his will ...and his will is that no man be justified in his persence without first personally excepting God into themselves and seeking salvation thru the Blood of the Lamb.

Aha! Yes, I remember something about "confess with your mouth" and dead peeps can't do that. Interesting.

Sidenote: I like the avatar pic doctor, it made me feel a bit sadness with Mike pointing for me to head out of the Garden.



[edit on 14-4-2005 by saint4God]

"dead peeps cant do that" haha thats cute.

Regardless of mormonism begin a cult or not,
i still think it boils down to people just not minding their own business. I think religion can get so caught up in the idea of NUMBERS NUMBERS NUMBERS...gotta get more people... that they also forget the concept of the "personal relationship with God" the purpose of this personal relationship is not just for guidence but also for the person to have a sense of accountability for the things they do. Whether they choose to listen to it is another thing. which we all need to work on.
But the simple fact is that since we are pulling from christian ideals here...that no man has the ability to save a man once he dies. and baptizim isnt meant to save someone. In the Christian faith when you accept christ your and ask the holy spirit to work within you...your heart is changed. Baptizim doesnt change a mans heart..acceptance does. But since they dont see that... the whole issue IMHOP is people not minding their own business and having a lack of respect for other peoples beliefs. Just because you believe they are wrong doesnt give anyone the Divine right of judgment or redemption.

Kind Regards,
Digital Grl

Dear all,

Surely this is a non-issue in the fact that as a Jew a person does not hold the practices of the Mormon Church to have any religious meaning.

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by DigitalGrl
"dead peeps cant do that" haha thats cute.

Thanks! Just keepin' it real for our hood. Can I get a Word (of God)? All the people in da house say "Aaaahhhhmen"! No diggity

Originally posted by DigitalGrl
In the Christian faith when you accept christ your and ask the holy spirit to work within you...your heart is changed. Baptizim doesnt change a mans heart..acceptance does.

Bravo! Es muy bien.

Originally posted by Jehosephat
Mormons think thier religion trumps other religions

Most religions do think theirs is the 'right' one and the best and
that everyone else is either totally wrong or at least not as smart
as their religion. Muslims think that way. Fundies think that way.
The Catholic church believes that everyone has 'some' truth but only
the Catholic church has the fullness of truth. EVERY organized
religion thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong (or at least
partially wrong).

You find it just about everywhere. There are some that don't but ...

Anyways .. they are baptising dead people. So what? As long as
they are not out with suicide/homicide bombs killing innocent people
in an attempt to get to 'paradise' where they will be serviced by
myriads of virgins. As long as they aren't on the TV or radio preaching
that everyone else is wrong and they need to get an army together
to fight for God. Let 'em baptise dead people. I don't care.

Originally posted by DigitalGrl
Regardless of mormonism begin a cult or not,

Technically - ANY religion is a cult. ANY. Catholic, protestant,
Muslim, Jew, Hindu, and even non-affiliated bible christians (fundies).
Anyone who has a religion has a cult. Technically according to
psychology.