Did we get this wrong from the start? (Definition of Satan)

a reply to: 19Bones79

According to your account of events, an all-knowing God put a "gate-guard" that could be possessed with the snap of a finger to safeguard over his most important earthly creation?

Why?

And if it was that easy, meaning the dragon had ZERO chance, why punish him?

Somehow, the reason for free will seems to keep escaping you.

You can't expect that everyone would be given free will and that it would remain untested do you?

All of creation was created with a purpose and part of that plan was to allow all to make choices. Hopefully, we learn from the poor choices we make. Some just refuse to learn.

a reply to: Deetermined

Somehow, the reason for free will seems to keep escaping you.

It certainly does seem like that when you only play in the shallow end of the pool, doesn't it?


However.


Your God already knew how everything would play out before he created it, because the writers of the Bible decided the God of their book was to be "all-knowing".

So to explain it in even simpler terms, if you have a script for a movie and that script plays out exactly how you knew it would because you directed, produced and starred in that movie as the main character, then any options presented in the storyline is but an illusion due to the fact that you already know how it will play out.


If your God exists, free will is an illusion.

a reply to: 19Bones79

I know it's hard for some people to understand, but just because God knows every decision that you (or anyone else) will make doesn't mean that he's responsible for you making them. It defeats the purpose of free will to intervene in every poor choice that people make.

a reply to: Deetermined

Except you've already made that decision.

It is already de(e)termined.

Even your Bible speaks of the future and what will happen and how people will behave.

At the quantum level a particle maintains simultaneous quantum states until you observe it at which point the particle adopts a certain state.

Does your God not see everything?


Have you ever heard of a theory that states the past, present and future all exist at once?

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: Deetermined


If your God exists, free will is an illusion.

an illusion describes a misinterpretation of a true sensation

a reply to: 19Bones79

Not trying to be rude or anything but I think you're missing the whole picture.
God had created Adam and Eve which gave the opportunity to kickstart a mankind.
On the other hand, Satan and his fallen angels rebelled and challenged against God's rulership and his kingdom.
They not only got jealous of mankind, went over the line by fornicating with females or young girls.
Archangel Michael and the army of loyal angels fought the rebel angels and won the war in heaven.
But did they win the war here on earth?
No, the fallen angels gave knowledge to men and became as deities and began ruling over the earth. They had offsprings with women which are known as the giants or demigods.

God hadn't plan all that. It was Satan and other fallen angels' schemes to take over the kingdom of heaven which they failed miserably and subsequently ended up reigning over the earth.

God decided a reset or send great flood on earth to wipe out the giants or again the offsprings of fallen angels.

The mankind living was spared thanks to God and with the help of his angels.

God is almighty, omnipotent and the all seeing eye or however people want to glorify his abilities and power, what matters most to us is that our creation had a reason but Satan and his fallen angels got in the way of God's plan.

Our God shouldn't be considered a creator of the universe but rather a creator of living species on our planet.
I believe that a single God who rules over the whole universe is just not possible unless there is an ultimate kingdom of heaven with many numerous "Gods" as each managing a domain or a galaxy perhaps.

a reply to: Anomin

I know how the story goes, it's the contradictions that I'm asking questions about.

God hadn't plan all that.

Is your God an all-knowing God?

If yes..

Do you agree that there's nothing that could surprise an all-knowing God?

Is this not the reality he created?

So if this is his creation, and he already knew how everything was going to play out due to his ability of knowing past, present and future, there would be no need for a plan in the first place,as nothing that happens comes as a surprise to him.

Which would make this reality a simulation.


There are other contradictions to the storyline of course.

In Genesis 6:6-7 God regrets making man.

Regret indicates that something didn't turn out as one would have hoped in hindsight, indicating an element of unpredictability, which must have God not knowing beforehand as a condition of regret.

So I'll ask again..

Does your God know everything before it happens?

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: Deetermined

Except you've already made that decision.

It is already de(e)termined.

Even your Bible speaks of the future and what will happen and how people will behave.

At the quantum level a particle maintains simultaneous quantum states until you observe it at which point the particle adopts a certain state.

Does your God not see everything?


Have you ever heard of a theory that states the past, present and future all exist at once?

Once again, God not only sees everything, but he knows everything, including what's in everyone's thoughts that lead to their choices and actions. God doesn't have to wait to observe something to know how it's going to play out. He does know the end and has known it from the beginning. You may not understand why He still allowed it to play out, but you don't hold all of the knowledge that He has either.

As far as the Bible giving us some insight to God's knowledge and wisdom about future events only reinforces that He exists and communicates with us to help us learn more about Him. It tells us that we have choices and if we choose the world over God, there will be consequences. It's not a manual for explaining why we aren't given choices.

a reply to: Deetermined

He does know the end and has known it from the beginning.

Thank you.

As I said to another poster, that means we are in a simulation.

a reply to: 19Bones79

There are other contradictions to the storyline of course.

In Genesis 6:6-7 God regrets making man.

Regret indicates that something didn't turn out as one would have hoped, indicating an element of unpredictability, which must have God not knowing beforehand as a condition of regret.

So I'll ask again..

Does your God know everything before it happens?

The answer to your last question is YES!

As for God regretting making man, the original language probably defines this "regret" as more of a frustration, and who wouldn't be? Most people probably regret things that their children have done, but do they regret them being alive? For most people, probably not. God knew what was going to happen at that period of time and He had a plan for cleaning the slate and starting over and HE WILL do it again. This goes back to the parable about the wheat and the tares. You have to let them grow together and then harvest the good from the bad eventually.

a reply to: 19Bones79

As I said to another poster, that means we are in a simulation.

If you mean we're living in a simulation in order to prepare us for an eternal spiritual life that is coming later, than yes. The Bible tells us that we will first live a natural life and then a spiritual one.

a reply to: 19Bones79

I think the question should be can God change the course of outcome?
Yes

We make our own choices whether good or bad.
Everyone takes a different path in life.
Ability to predict the future means nothing compared to knowing the consequence or the final outcome with certainty.
God doesn't need to predict the future because God has the power to alter the course of outcome as He wish.
That's the power of God.

a reply to: 19Bones79

God wouldn't be Alknowing if He didn't know He would regret something. Are you saying He didn't know he would regret?

a reply to: Deetermined

As for God regretting making man, the original language probably defines this "regret" as more of a frustration, and who wouldn't be? Most people probably regret things that their children have done, but do they regret them being alive?

This is not a correct comparison.

a reply to: Deetermined

You know that's not what I was saying, don't you?

a reply to: Anomin

If God is indeed interventionist, what criteria would you say guarantees his intervention?

Or is it bestowed on a whim?

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: Deetermined

You know that's not what I was saying, don't you?

Actually, no. I have no idea what you're talking about when you use the word "simulation". Why don't you explain to me your definition and context for it. I hear the word simulation and I think of something like a space simulator that astronauts use to prepare or practice for what they might experience in space.

a reply to: 19Bones79

God doesn't intervene out of nothing.
Fallen angels made the serious wrong choices as well as Adam and Eve whether decieved or not.

God is also caring and forgiving.

We make our own choices everyday that alters the course of life.

We are free willed spirits and look like fallen angels had free wills too.

You can't out think God because He created our very first flesh and blood. We wouldn't be here without Him.
Now that mankind has gotten smarter we tend to question God's abilities but all I care about is that creation of man happened many thousands of years ago. I'll question God's abilities later in life if I can live as old as 5000 years lol.

The creation of mankind started because of God's plan.
That's all that matters to me really. Our creator is my God.
God exists because we were created, not evolved nor out of nature out of nowhere. That's why there are statues or depictions of giants found in Petra, pyramids in Egypt, in Sumer and mythology records and stories told all over the world.
That proves even without reading the Bible that there were giants or demigods ruled over the earth.

a reply to: 19Bones79

This is not a correct comparison.

Look at it however you want, but you have to know that God must be terribly pained to see members of his creation perish because of their own poor choices when they could have just listened to God and saved themselves from death. On the flip side, God's not going to force us to obey either. As the Bible says, "It's not God's will than any man SHOULD perish", but He knows that some will. I'm sure He regrets that, but in order to keep a perfect order, it must happen.

originally posted by: FingerMan


Satan is not a real singular being.

Satan is not a real singular being. Satan is a definition. Satan is a state of mind. Satan is a state of being. Satan is rebellion. Satan is the easy answer. Satan is succumbing to desire. Satan is pride. Satan is selfishness. Satan is SIN.

In a nutshell, Satan is the part of your mind that does not want to follow the protocols of God. And is why the serpent of Eden and other examples are all used to reference the same thing.

This theory originally popped into my head with this one verse from Jesus: Matthew 16:23
But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are an offense to me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."

Your thoughts appreciated!

You're saying Jesus commanded the part of Peter's mind that does not want to follow the protocols of God behind Himself.