It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Did we get this wrong from the start? (Definition of Satan)

page: 4
6
<< 1  2  3    5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 06:06 PM
link   

originally posted by: whereislogic
As you already indicated, it's not exactly a new idea...

The Apostle Peter, A Loyal Follower of Jesus | True Faith

...

... Jesus continued to reveal vital truths about the Messiah, including the certainty of his own impending suffering and death at Jerusalem. Peter was disturbed to hear such things. He took Jesus aside and rebuked him, saying: “Be kind to yourself, Lord; you will not have this destiny at all.”​—Matt. 16:21, 22.

Peter surely meant well, so Jesus’ reply must have come as a surprise. He turned his back on Peter, looked at the rest of the disciples​—who had likely been thinking something similar—​and said: “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you think, not God’s thoughts, but those of men.” (Matt. 16:23; Mark 8:32, 33) Jesus’ words contain practical counsel for us all. It is only too easy to allow human thinking to take priority over godly thinking. If we do so, even when we mean to help, we may inadvertently become proponents of Satan’s purpose rather than God’s. How, though, did Peter respond?

Peter must have realized that Jesus was not calling him Satan the Devil in any literal sense. After all, Jesus did not speak to Peter as he had to Satan. To Satan, Jesus had said: “Go away”; to Peter, he said: “Get behind me.” (Matt. 4:10) Jesus did not cast off this apostle in whom he saw a great deal of good, but he simply corrected Peter’s wrong thinking in this matter. It is not hard to see that Peter needed to stop getting in front of his Master as a stumbling block and needed to get back behind him as a supportive follower.

...


... The dirge recorded at Ezekiel 28:12-19, though directed to the human “king of Tyre,” evidently draws upon or parallels the course taken by the spirit son of God who first sinned. The pride of the “king of Tyre,” his making himself ‘a god,’ his being called a “cherub,” and the reference to “Eden, the garden of God,” certainly correspond to Biblical information concerning Satan the Devil, who became puffed up with pride, is linked to the serpent in Eden, and is called “the god of this system of things.”—1 Tim. 3:6; Gen. 3:1-5, 14, 15; Rev. 12:9; 2 Cor. 4:4.

...

Source: Perfection (Aid to Bible Understanding)

That is however not a reason to think Satan is not a person/individual. Since that would not be consistent with the rest of Scripture (see video).

Untun - if you read the thread a little more you would see what I meant, and what I ultimately said. This video ended my thoughts in that direction.



posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 06:28 PM
link   
a reply to: 19Bones79

An Almighty Eternal God is the first and the last able to alter things as we go.



posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 07:19 PM
link   

originally posted by: Untun
a reply to: 19Bones79

An Almighty Eternal God is the first and the last able to alter things as we go.

I'm sure you just scored some points. Good for you!

I was just talking about what is a fact and what is a metaphor.



posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 07:55 PM
link   
For the collective:

If you came to me for a job, and I told you about my company, the motto and creed of it, the mission statement for it, and I also gave you a thorough manual for my company covering every question you will need to work for me, and if I answered some questions for you, and had done my best at the moment to lay it all out for you, and you kept asking question after question, that was in the manual I handed you, that you have not even read yet, and you needed to know every reason for every single tiny decision I had made over my vast amounts of experience in My Business....

Then you, my friend, would not be worthy to work for me.

Do you see?



To the author: you asked a great question here. Something you have the right to know the truth. Keep asking the right questions.

On my journey of learning, aka being taught, all these things, and the more I learned about God, the more I learned about my enemies, as well.

Satan will make an appearance soon for all to see though.
Some will call him the antichrist.
Some will call him God.

Don't be on the wrong side.
The devil is coming to deceive the world soon.
Get ready.
edit on 5-3-2023 by AOx6179 because: (no reason given)



Better the devil you know, then the devil you don't.
edit on 5-3-2023 by AOx6179 because: My last statement for this thread



posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 08:29 PM
link   
a reply to: AOx6179

You know, I kind of expected this. And this is where the Christian gets a bad name. There are supposed Christians that will judge others and say "YOU ARE GOING TO HELL" or quote some biblical text that makes absolutely no sense to the topic at hand. They feel they can say this of course because they are so much smarter and better than the other person.
In my opinion, this is a tell tale sign of someone that is in pain. But I must refrain from judging.
I'm glad you "think" you know the bible better than I do, so you can speak down to me. I bet you feel really good doing so.
Check this out. I think you are not. I think every time someone like you speaks down to someone else and says they are not worthy in some way, they are in fact committing the greatest sin of all. It is called taking the Lords Name in Vain.
Good luck on your interview!



posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 08:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: FingerMan
a reply to: AOx6179

You know, I kind of expected this. And this is where the Christian gets a bad name. There are supposed Christians that will judge others and say "YOU ARE GOING TO HELL" or quote some biblical text that makes absolutely no sense to the topic at hand. They feel they can say this of course because they are so much smarter and better than the other person.
In my opinion, this is a tell tale sign of someone that is in pain. But I must refrain from judging.
I'm glad you "think" you know the bible better than I do, so you can speak down to me. I bet you feel really good doing so.
Check this out. I think you are not. I think every time someone like you speaks down to someone else and says they are not worthy in some way, they are in fact committing the greatest sin of all. It is called taking the Lords Name in Vain.
Good luck on your interview!



I think youve taken me wrong here, but that's okay. I apologize, sincerely, to you for making you feel as if I was talking down to you. You are my equal, I assure you I think that, and I'd wrap my arm around you and walk thru the gates of paradise with you.
So I do hope that you see that I admired your question here.
Hell, you've had me thinking about this since you posted this. This is my favorite topic and what I was doing was trying to share what I had learned, since you had asked.

I will humbly bow out of the conversation, and I hope that the blessings of heaven rain down on you and everything you love.

One love
edit on 5-3-2023 by AOx6179 because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-3-2023 by AOx6179 because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-3-2023 by AOx6179 because: (no reason given)


And if I've made you feel like I've judged you then you're right, and I have sinned against you, and I repent, and ask that you forgive me.
edit on 5-3-2023 by AOx6179 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 09:25 PM
link   
a reply to: AOx6179

No. I think I understood what you typed and responded in kind. I made sure of it before I replied.
And I had a good conversation with you. But there are certain topics that I jump on a little faster and harder than most.
I grew up in the midwest. And I know what I'm talking about with the holy rollers that don't practice what they preach.
I am 100% not saying you are that. Not at all. We had some good conversation here.
So your post just brought that response out of me. I do appreciate good conversation on this topic, which you brought.

I started the thread with an idea in mind that I was looking to have debunked. And some posters here did that.
Fact that I can't recall every tidbit of information in an instant does not mean anything bad, as I took your post about not knowing the manual to be. Fact is, you don't have to interview for a job to get into heaven. It is a gift you just receive. So there were many levels on that example I disagreed with.

As I have shown a couple times in this thread, I no longer agree with my OP. My OP was an open question really to begin with. So when I realized I was incorrect, I stated it in this thread. But my OP was a good question, and it is easy to see why someone would take in that way based on what Jesus said to Peter.



posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 09:47 PM
link   
a reply to: AOx6179




and you kept asking question after question, that was in the manual I handed you, that you have not even read yet, and you needed to know every reason for every single tiny decision I had made over my vast amounts of experience in My Business....




Except I have read the Bible, which is exactly what caused my disbelief, hence the many questions.





and you needed to know every reason for every single tiny decision I had made over my vast amounts of experience in My Business....



Except your business consists of claiming ownership and ultimate power over my very being, with implied disastrous results for me if I don't get on my knees and kiss your ass.

Your business is in the business of invading every aspect of my life and having me constantly apologize for not being nearly good enough that you had to cut the brakes of the car of your VP and convinced him to drive off a cliff to make up for my always assumed incompetence for which I can truly never make up for but supposedly you will promote me if I grovel regardless.

Adding to that, you have destroyed your whole company once by flooding it and incinerated another 2 subdivisions for upsetting you rather than in your infinite knowledge ever try to reason with your 'employees'.

You have initiated bloody and brutal hostile takeovers of companies and gave their employees sometimes no option as you have instructed your takeover goons to eliminate everyone working there.

And in an unspecified amount of time in the supposedly near future you have sent out a memo to all employees indicating that you plan to return from your absence here, you were just watching from afar in the Bahamas as it all supposedly got worse(which you claimed it will), and that you plan to close the business for good.

So yeah, you suck as a CEO and I withdraw my questions as well as my application form.

What a terrible company to work for.



Your Business model is worse than Amazon's. Sir.



edit on 5-3-2023 by 19Bones79 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 09:55 PM
link   
a reply to: FingerMan

Thank you for that.
And you're right yet again. Grace gets us into heaven. Not our work.
I have asked the Lord to use me for His purpose and to do some work for Him.
He has answered me in the form of "qualifying me" to do whatever it is He wants of me. And I fail a lot. Lol But that's how I learn. I haven't learned anything because I was smart. I learned so much bc of all the stupid s**t I've put my self thru, and I am a master of consequences, having reaped what I've sown every time.
And I'm with you on the holy rollers being in the bible belt part of the US. I call these holier than thous "modern day pharisees."
I'm glad I'm not presenting myself in that way, having learned what "wolves in sheep clothing" really looks like. Had to learn that that hard way too.

I admit not reading the entire thread and we picked up on the same thing, and that was the response I gave "to the collective." That part actually wasn't intended for you at all, and I got sidetracked and posted before I had addressed you formally like I had intended. I went back and corrected my error as soon as I noticed.

Just keep pluggin away. I do the same thing. Think I'm on to something, I'll voice it out loud, and that helps me see it better.
Glad you got what you needed out of the OP.



posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 09:56 PM
link   

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: AOx6179




and you kept asking question after question, that was in the manual I handed you, that you have not even read yet, and you needed to know every reason for every single tiny decision I had made over my vast amounts of experience in My Business....




Except I have read the Bible, which is exactly what caused my disbelief, hence the many questions.





and you needed to know every reason for every single tiny decision I had made over my vast amounts of experience in My Business....



Except your business consists of claiming ownership and ultimate power over my very being, with implied disastrous results for me if I don't get on my knees and kiss your ass.

Your business is in the business of invading every aspect of my life and having me constantly apologize for not being nearly good enough that you had to cut the brakes of the car of your VP and convinced him to drive off a cliff to make up for my always assumed incompetence for which I can truly never make up for but supposedly you will promote me if I grovel regardless.

Adding to that, you have destroyed your whole company once by flooding it and incinerated another 2 subdivisions for upsetting you rather than in your infinite knowledge ever try to reason with your 'employees'.

You have initiated bloody and brutal hostile takeovers of companies and gave their employees sometimes no option as you have instructed your takeover goons to eliminate everyone working there.

And in an unspecified amount of time in the supposedly near future you have sent out a memo to all employees indicating that you plan to return from your absence here, you were just watching from afar in the Bahamas as it all supposedly got worse(which you claimed it will), and that you plan to close the business for good.

So yeah, you suck as a CEO and I withdraw my questions as well as my application form.

What a terrible company to work for.



Your Business model is worse than Amazon's. Sir.




K



posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 09:57 PM
link   
a reply to: Deetermined




Look at it however you want, but you have to know that God must be terribly pained to see members of his creation perish because of their own poor choices when they could have just listened to God and saved themselves from death.




But he supposedly knew this would happen and he supposedly created us anyway.


"terribly pained".

More like willing masochist/sadist the way the Bible story paints the picture.

edit on 5-3-2023 by 19Bones79 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 10:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: AOx6179
a reply to: FingerMan

Thank you for that.
And you're right yet again. Grace gets us into heaven. Not our work.
I have asked the Lord to use me for His purpose and to do some work for Him.
He has answered me in the form of "qualifying me" to do whatever it is He wants of me. And I fail a lot. Lol But that's how I learn. I haven't learned anything because I was smart. I learned so much bc of all the stupid s**t I've put my self thru, and I am a master of consequences, having reaped what I've sown every time.
And I'm with you on the holy rollers being in the bible belt part of the US. I call these holier than thous "modern day pharisees."
I'm glad I'm not presenting myself in that way, having learned what "wolves in sheep clothing" really looks like. Had to learn that that hard way too.

I admit not reading the entire thread and we picked up on the same thing, and that was the response I gave "to the collective." That part actually wasn't intended for you at all, and I got sidetracked and posted before I had addressed you formally like I had intended. I went back and corrected my error as soon as I noticed.

Just keep pluggin away. I do the same thing. Think I'm on to something, I'll voice it out loud, and that helps me see it better.
Glad you got what you needed out of the OP.

100%!
The internet is brutal. Absolutely brutal.
If I were having a conversation with a person in real time, and they said something incorrect or offensive, I'd end the conversation or I'd probe a little deeper as they may not have realized how the receiver mistook their intended message.
On the internet, there is no body language. And in a conversation, body language is 80% of the conversation believe it or not.
So on the internet, unless you have known someone for a period of time, or it is official/professional correspondence, you don't show partiality, you just react. And that is what is fun about the internet sometimes. Also what is horrid about it.

I understand your clarification of that post. Still don't agree with it. Who cares. It is a less than side note to a larger conversation. We just keep moving on.
edit on 5-3-2023 by FingerMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 10:05 PM
link   
a reply to: Deetermined




Actually, no. I have no idea what you're talking about when you use the word "simulation"



Then you have understood none of my previous replies.

Where we go from here, I don't know.



posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 10:10 PM
link   
a reply to: AOx6179

I want you to know something.

The fact that you are a decent person and a seeker of truth shines through the digital light that makes up our conversation. I can pick up on your integrity.

And regardless of our differing views, pursue truth where you perceive it to be coming from.

I wish you well.





posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 10:13 PM
link   

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: AOx6179

I want you to know something.

The fact that you are a decent person and a seeker of truth shines through the digital light that makes up our conversation. I can pick up on your integrity.

And regardless of our differing views, pursue truth where you perceive it to be coming from.

I wish you well.




Bones I enjoy our back and forths. You challenge me and I see you as iron. And iron sharpens iron. I bet you and I would be the best of friends because you have HONOR.

Stay cool, homie. 😎🤙



posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 10:18 PM
link   
Delete
edit on 5-3-2023 by AOx6179 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 11:03 PM
link   
the Bible was written for the same reasons as the Tower of Babel was destroyed. Create division and ignorance about what god is and wants, because it is easier to control morons than it is to control smart critically thinking people.

To be honest, the bible and every other religious script is a fragment of a larger tapestry that will never be put back together because there are interested parties in keeping the human race stupefyingly ignorant of their potential. Imagine the human race using all of its resources and energy into becoming a real force for good in the universe.

Then realize that we are anything but, by design.

I have had three shots of bourbon in my defense as I am dealing with a broken tooth that cannot be fixed until Friday.

a reply to: FingerMan



posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 11:16 PM
link   

originally posted by: AOx6179
a reply to: 19Bones79


If demons are naughty angels, do they look alike and how would you know which is which if they are experts at deception


Not omnipresent as much as billions of them. More demon than angels I believe. And we can't actually fight off something that witnessed the creation, knows most the secrets of it, and has the power to manipulate things (even environment).
That's why the Holy Spirit came into play and how God can guide us and do His work thru us and then finally transform us into our original design (we are beings of light. This is not our true form)

These are my faith answers. No proof. 100% faith (other than my own Spiritual experiences, but you can't prove you have them).
Satan is good , Satan is bad … The Burbs
Satan is myth … evil only resides in one place in the solar system & that is in men’s hearts



posted on Mar, 5 2023 @ 11:59 PM
link   

originally posted by: Fairtrade141
the Bible was written for the same reasons as the Tower of Babel was destroyed. Create division and ignorance about what god is and wants, because it is easier to control morons than it is to control smart critically thinking people.

To be honest, the bible and every other religious script is a fragment of a larger tapestry that will never be put back together because there are interested parties in keeping the human race stupefyingly ignorant of their potential. Imagine the human race using all of its resources and energy into becoming a real force for good in the universe.

Then realize that we are anything but, by design.

I have had three shots of bourbon in my defense as I am dealing with a broken tooth that cannot be fixed until Friday.

a reply to: FingerMan


I know someone that sounds just like you.
He is 100% certain there is no God. He is also 100% certain that anyone who believes in God is a moron.
He is 50 years old and lives with his mother. You know, because he is so intelligent and such a winner!

I know you look at yourself and say that there is no way a designer would make such a mistake. The only mistake are your choices and actions.



posted on Mar, 6 2023 @ 12:37 AM
link   

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: whereislogic

Let's put the same question in easier to understand terms for you.

Do you and your God share the same morals?

Is that the same question? Seems like you want to talk about God's morals now (possibly in relation to his omnipotence, as you did in your thread that brings up God's moral choices and judgements regarding for example the Amalekites, or the flood).

The other question was purely about God's omnipotence. Maybe you already wanted to go there with that question as well (although I wonder how that would have looked like). I'm not so inclined to talk about God's morals with you though, feels like it would be too much of a waste of time with the way it seems you've already decided* to perceive and feel about these (and God's moral choices and judgements concerning for example the examples you used in your own thread on the Philosophy & Metaphysics forum: "Psychosis - Humanity's biggest hurdle"). But if I ever feel like saying something in response to your commentary about it, I'll probably do it there (or similar threads in the future).

*: made up your mind (remember, "it seems" that way, I obviously can't read your mind so I can't be sure, I can however see your comments about it, so that's the impression I get from them)
edit on 6-3-2023 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
6
<< 1  2  3    5  6 >>

log in

join