Did we get this wrong from the start? (Definition of Satan)

a reply to: whereislogic

Is that the same question?

Absolutely. It boils down to rules for thee but not for me.

Because if right and wrong is not absolute for all beings and thatincludes your concept of God what you are dealing with could basically be Hitler with Omnipotence, cloaked in the jargon of 'sovereignty'.

But if I ever feel like saying something in response to your commentary about it, I'll probably do it there (or similar threads in the future).

Pre-emptive but I will respect your wishes.

a reply to: 19Bones79

Your business is in the business of invading every aspect of my life and having me constantly apologize for not being nearly good enough that you had to cut the brakes of the car of your VP and convinced him to drive off a cliff to make up for my always assumed incompetence for which I can truly never make up for but supposedly you will promote me if I grovel regardless.

That's your own imperfect nature talking you down. God knows that none of us are perfect, that's why He sent Jesus to cover for our sins. We were never meant to be able to make up for them. (It comes with the territory when you allow free will.) It's clear you've read the Bible, so look at some of the ghastly things King David and King Solomon committed even though they were close to God. The Bible is filled with stories of God using imperfect men to serve Him and carry out His will. There's no need to grovel when we're covered by grace through our faith in Jesus. However, our sins should naturally make us feel remorseful.

Adding to that, you have destroyed your whole company once by flooding it and incinerated another 2 subdivisions for upsetting you rather than in your infinite knowledge ever try to reason with your 'employees'.

Surely it's crossed your mind that when an ALL KNOWING God takes extreme measures against people it's because He already KNOWS that some people just can't be reasoned with. I know that's hard for reasonable people to understand, but take a look around you and the state of the world today and some of the people in it (especially our governments). Evil and crime are becoming an epidemic that's past the point of treatment and a cure.

Since this thread is about the origin of Satan,
Ezekiel verse 28 clearly describes the King of Tyre as if he was a cherub, once belong from the garden of eden, had a splendor in appearance, just resemble so much like Satan.

Now by tracing the king of Tyre's geneology, their founder is very closely related to Satan.

Baal - Abibaal (my father is Baal) - Hiram I - Beleazarus I ...

Baal is often associated with or possibly an identical figure as Beelzebub or Ba'al-zəbûb.

Baal means Lord
Baalzebub means Lord of the flies

Baal is offspring from Dagan and Shalash

Here Dagan is sometimes pronounced as Dogon or dragon in other cultures.

And finally, Baal = Belial is possibly Baal's father or godfather.

Belial, according to Dead Sea scrolls, was the leader of the Sons of darkness which battled against the Sons of light. God's sons are obviously known as angels. This is the war in heaven mentioned in the bible.

Belial was once in the highest order of angels hence possibly given a cherub title.

Satan's real name is most likely pronounced as in between Baal Beel and Belial.

a reply to: 19Bones79

But he supposedly knew this would happen and he supposedly created us anyway.

I'm sure there's a thousand different thoughts and opinions about that. Some wish that they had never been born, others will think that being able to spend eternity with God was worth this temporary life, and still others will think and know that everything good in this world, universe, or the heavens only comes through some level of sacrifice. Not knowing what God knows, would it have been better if we were all created without our own free will or our own autonomy? I can't answer that.

a reply to: 19Bones79

Then you have understood none of my previous replies.

Since you won't answer the question, I can only assume that your vagueness means you've thought your simulation theory through a little longer and decided it didn't make much sense.

I don't see a reason for God to play games with himself because that's all a simulation would be if we didn't have free will. The Bible says that He wants to share what He has with us, not himself.

a reply to: FingerMan

SATAN stands for stratospheric aerosol transport and nucleation
or chem-trails in common lingo according to MIT.

Look it up…..

You can’t make this #e up!

a reply to: Deetermined

That's your own imperfect nature talking you down. God knows that none of us are perfect, that's why He sent Jesus to cover for our sins.

Makes zero sense. Would not recommend as a father figure.

God: "Hey Jesus, you know those beings I created? Well, turns out they're not perfect! Do me a solid and go die for them, will you? Just to cover for them. "

Jesus:" Cover from what, dad?"

God: "Ummm... That'll be me."

Jesus:" So I gotta go sacrifice myself to myself in order to save them from myself because I love the world so much that I gave them myself so they can kill me so that I won't destroy them? “

God:" But wait... there's more! "

Jesus:"Promise them an eternity of marveling at my genius? “

God:" See? I knew you'd understand! "

Jesus:" Sigh... Anything else? "

God:" Oh! That reminds me. Have them give some of their money every week in the clubhouse and if they ask why don't they just pray for a miracle insist on the money by guilting them into thinking the reason their prayers don't work is because they have less faith than a mustard seed!!! "

Jesus:" Jesus Christ dad! That's terrible! "

God:" Yeah.. I know.. Tell them I'm so intelligent that they shouldn't try to understand it. "

Jesus:" What if some see through that? “

God:"Damn son, what's with all the questions? They'll believe anything. Just tell them I'm super awesome so I can pretty much do what I want and if they don't behave I'll go armageddon on their ass."

Jesus :"I'm going to have to soften your approach so as to appear more relatable."

God:"Ooh! I know. Dazzle them with magic tricks like turning water into wine hahaha!

Jesus:" What if I just alude to certain scientific facts like the earth is round and not the centre of the universe and that the earth is billions of years old and there were all sorts of dinosaurs which are now extinct and that one day they'll be able to fly to the moon in a pointy carriage? "

God:" Boring! Do some parlor tricks like the pharaos magicians! "

Jesus:" What if they misinterpret my intentions and start killing in my name? Can't I go down and just do something meaningful? "

God:" You're starting to annoy me. Now go before I kill you myself hahaha ha. "

Jesus :" I forgive you dad, for it seems you know not what you're doing. "

God:" Why you li... Hold on. That's brilliant! Make sure you use that line when they kill you. Now go! And do not come back here if you're not dead! "

Jesus:" Ah man! “

God:"I'm going to have them say that after every worship session just to annoy you!"

a reply to: 19Bones79

The role that blood plays into our human existence and why a blood sacrifice was required is a whole different topic and thread. There's a reason that the Bible says that neither flesh nor blood can enter heaven and why the corruptible must be made incorruptible, but I'm doubting you're interested in digging that deep into spiritual matters.

a reply to: Deetermined

The role that blood plays into our human existence and why a blood sacrifice was required

Sure. Even the Inca's understood the importance of that.

Except when they did it we consider it barbaric.

a reply to: FingerMan

Saturn is God of this world. Controller of the matrix. This is Saturn. The lord of the rings. The furthest of the visible objects in the night sky. IN astrological terms Saturn is the ruler of restriction / time / economy . goverment etc. - matrix control. On earth matrix is controlled by those that worship Saturn (satuday) Controlers of the physical world. (cube worship) time is represented by the Sin wave the sun makes over the earrh in a year. We are all born into SIn and the physical plain.

Lucifer is the morning star (Sirius) same as Jesus. Life and death and knowledge bringers.. not the same entity.

.

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: Deetermined

The role that blood plays into our human existence and why a blood sacrifice was required

Sure. Even the Inca's understood the importance of that.

Except when they did it we consider it barbaric.

Let me rephrase to say that it required the blood sacrifice of a perfect being, not a naturally conceived and imperfect human.

a reply to: 19Bones79

They didn't add that chapter to the book for a reason.

a reply to: Deetermined

If we kill him when he comes again, do we get double indemnity?

a reply to: Untun

Do me a favor will you?


When you get to heaven, ask them to play act how that conversation went down.

And if it's really boring, show them my take on it and see if they have a sense of humor.


I don't think it has ever been written where they laugh about something, anything.

Always so serious.

a reply to: 19Bones79

Your lack of sense of humor makes it look like you're dead already.

a reply to: Untun

What's Jesus favorite exercise?


Crossfit.

a reply to: 19Bones79

Don't make Him crossfit you. Enjoy your stay.

Satan is a real being. He has a mind, will and emotions and so does his henchmen. If you can, get the true and scientific book called, "The Devil and Karen Kingston". Here is the introduction of the book.
"There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils!" warned the widely respected C. L Lewis. "One is to disbelieve in their existence! “The other is to believe and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them!" Father Juan Cortes was a psychology professor at Georgetown University. This was where The Exorcist was filmed! He said that all cases of possession he's studied can readily be explained away in modern scientific terms! Today's science can also explain, according to Cortes, the old Biblical accounts of "casting out devils!" Reverend Donald Basham, an ordained Disciples of Christ minister and others vigorously disagree! Basham claims a full one-fourth of Jesus Christ's ministry was solely devoted to casting devils out of possessed people! This man is a long-time counselor. He’s able, "by taking authority over a demon," to achieve quickly what months of counseling failed to accomplish! Taking this authority over a demonic spirit is quite simple! The exorcist must only do it "in the name of Jesus!" Or "on the blood of Jesus!" In Acts 16:16, the Apostle Paul was on his way to prayer when he met a psychic, "a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination!” Paul couldn't seem to rid himself of this pesky girl! She continued following him for days! In Acts 16:18, Paul finally lost patience with the diviner! He became quite upset over her persistent antics! Paul promptly turned on the girl! He unhesitatingly cast out the evil spirit of divination, or fortune-telling! How did Paul execute this deed? He simply said: "I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!" And the spirit was expelled! Almost instantaneously! Most theologians agree that Jesus Christ believed in demons! In Mark 1:21, Jesus drove evil spirits out of a man in the synagogue of Capernaum! Billy Graham supports the view that Jesus acted as God's exorcist! He offers Matthew 12:28 as evidence! Philip performed numerous miracles while he was in Samaria. This man of God is known to have exorcised quite a few evil spirits. These "unclean spirits" came forth from the possessed people "crying with a loud voice." The evil entities are believed to have been both baffled and enraged at being deprived of their dwelling place. "Many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed" by Philip's elementary act of forcing the demonic spirits to leave their human vessel! "It is possible to cast demons out of physical bodies!" declared the late Kathryn Kuhlman, noted television evangelist and healer. "Young people have a right to be frightened of the possibility of possession! "Demons are a highly organized system of evil spirits hostile to God and men," charged Evangelist Leighton Ford, a long-time member of the Billy Graham team. “Demons are messengers of Satan! “Wholly given over to evil! A youthful Holiness minister, a dubious Catholic priest, and a skeptical Southern Baptist evangelist formed an unlikely trio of exorcists! They’d come together in an effort to try to help young, pitiful Karen Kingston! They would temporally lay aside their theological differences! They would join hands in mortal combat against the raging forces of Satan! Ten people experienced a horrifying three days in contact with a dangerous group of evil entities! Ten people came away from the chilling experience with a strengthened faith in God! Ten people witnessed a miracle!

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: Deetermined

If we kill him when he comes again, do we get double indemnity?

Although I know you're joking, you can't kill Jesus a second time because he's no longer in a human state.

a reply to: texastig

Should Christians practice exorcism?

An Encyclopædia of Occultism states: “To exorcise, according to the received definitions, says Smedley, is to bind upon oath, to charge upon oath, and thus, by the use of certain words, and performance of certain ceremonies, to subject the devil and other evil spirits to command and exact obedience.”

In its definition of “exorcism,” the New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The act of driving out or warding off demons or evil spirits from persons, places, or things that are, or are believed to be, possessed or infested by them or are liable to become victims or instruments of their malice.”

The Roman Catholic Church’s Code of Canon Law permits authorized ministers to perform exorcisms. The New Catholic Encyclopedia explains: “Formerly the book used in this ceremony was the book of exorcisms; today it may be the Pontifical, the Missal, or the Ritual. The handing of the book to the candidate is the necessary action, and the words of the ordaining prelate, as indicated in the Pontifical, the necessary formula.”

Jesus did expel demons, and when this took place the person returned to a normal state of mind. (Matt. 8:16) With what authority and power did Jesus expel demons? His authority was from Jehovah God, and by expelling demons from possessed persons, Jesus proved that he was God’s Anointed One, the Messiah. Though they did so unwillingly, the demons were forced to recognize Jesus’ authority. (Matt. 8:28-34)

Jesus left no doubt as to the power by which he expelled demons. The Gospel writer Luke tells us that Jesus expelled demons by “God’s finger.” But what is the symbolic meaning of this? Matthew’s Gospel account makes this clear in indicating that Jesus expelled demons by ‘God’s holy spirit,’ or Jehovah’s active force. (Luke 11:20; Matt. 12:28) Jesus himself confessed that it was by God’s power that he was able to expel demons.​—Mark 5:18-20.

Something Conspicuously Absent

Did Jesus perform some special ritual in order to expel the demons? Was a séance or any form of magic employed by Christ, his apostles or his other disciples when bringing relief to the demon-possessed?

No. Neither Jesus nor his first century followers possessed or used any “book of exorcism.” Moreover, nowhere in Holy Scripture does one find words, phrases or formulas that are supposed to be especially effective in expelling wicked spirits.

For that matter, the use of some form of magic is not compatible with true Christianity. Jehovah God instructed his people in centuries past: “There should not be found in you . . . a practicer of magic.” (Deut. 18:10) Significant is the action of those who became Christians in ancient Ephesus. We are told: “Quite a number of those who practiced magical arts brought their books together and burned them up before everybody.” (Acts 19:18, 19) That city was noted for the “Ephesian letters,” of which it is said: “They seem to have consisted of certain combinations of letters or words, which, by being pronounced with certain intonations of voice, were believed to be effectual in expelling diseases, or evil spirits.” But those who became Christians in ancient Ephesus avoided any involvement with these world-famous “Ephesian letters.”

Then, Why Does It Seem to Work?

That Jesus Christ and his early disciples could expel demons is a matter of Bible record. However, when certain impostors, the seven sons of the priest Sceva, tried to do this in the name of “Jesus whom Paul preaches,” what happened? Why, the demon-possessed man seized and severely mauled them, stripping all seven of them naked. (Acts 19:13-16) So not all would-be exorcists have success, even if they use Jesus’ name.

Jesus Christ himself said: “Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not . . . expel demons in your name . . . ?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you!” (Matt. 7:22, 23) As it is, sometimes spirit mediums are reported as casting out demons. But surely, neither they nor their exorcism have divine approval, for Jehovah God declared: “Do not turn yourselves to the spirit mediums.”​—Lev. 19:31.

The Pharisees falsely charged that Jesus Christ expelled demons by means of Beelzebub, Satan the Devil. But they would say that God’s holy spirit, or active force, was responsible when their “sons” or disciples expelled demons. Thus the Pharisees sinned against the holy spirit by denying its evident operation when Jesus expelled demons. (Matt. 12:22-32) Actually, the Pharisees’ “sons” and others who were not Jesus’ disciples were children of the Devil. (John 8:44; 1 John 3:10) So, any claimed exorcism by them would actually be as agents of Satan. But in using them the Devil would not be divided against himself.​—2 Cor. 11:14.

The Devil would in this way be advancing or increasing his power and influence over persons who were deceived. For instance, if a practicer of false religion exorcised a demon, is it not likely that the person relieved of obsession would be thankful? And is it not reasonable that he, his family, and his friends, would think that the exorcist was a person of true faith in God? Would they not be inclined to look into his religion, perhaps joining that organization? If that took place, Satan would have achieved a victory. He would have led the deceived ones away or diverted them from true religion, the worship of Jehovah God “with spirit and truth.”​—John 4:23, 24.

True, during the infancy of the Christian congregation, Jehovah God often enabled Jesus’ disciples to perform miracles under the power of His holy spirit. But such miraculous gifts of the spirit were no longer needed once it had been proved that the “hand of Jehovah” was with the followers of Jesus Christ. (Acts 11:21) Consequently, the miraculous gifts of the spirit and unusual demonstrations of its power passed away.​—1 Cor. 13:8-13.

Is There No Help at All?

While there is no Scriptural authority for exorcism ritual today and true Christians do not practice it, that does not mean that godly persons have no protection from wicked spirit forces. They do, indeed, have all the help that is needed.

Any individual who believes that he is under attack by wicked spirit forces should shun spiritism, divination and related practices. (Deut. 18:10-12) If he is being harassed by “voices” from the spirit realm, no matter who they claim to be, he should not heed what they say. Rather, it is vital to recognize the source as the demons and to reject what is said.​—2 Thess. 2:9.

Obviously, to resist wicked spirit forces, a person should guard against association with those who dabble in magic, witchcraft and the like. Instead, association should be sought with those who are true Christians. (1 Cor. 15:33) He should remove from his person and his home any object having any connection with demonic religion. Essential also is putting on the ‘complete suit of spiritual armor from God.’ It includes such ‘pieces of armor’ as the girdle of truth and “the breastplate of righteousness.”​—Eph. 6:11-18; 2 Pet. 3:11.

Of vital importance is faith in Jehovah and earnest prayer to him. If under demon assault, it is essential to pray to Jehovah God through Jesus Christ, using the Divine Name. “The name of Jehovah is a strong tower. Into it the righteous runs and is given protection.” (Prov. 18:10; Phil. 4:6, 7) Appointed overseers in the Christian congregation gladly have assisted those desiring to serve God but who were being troubled by the demons. Yet, the mental attitude of the individual himself is of importance. It is vital to resist wicked spirit forces, and this is effective. “Oppose the Devil,” wrote the disciple James, “and he will flee from you.”​—Jas. 4:7.

Modern-day exorcism with its ritual is not the answer to demon possession. Rather, Jehovah God has lovingly provided protection from wicked spirit forces, and prudent persons will avail themselves of it. No, Christians should not practice exorcism rites. But they should keep their minds and hearts fixed on the worship and service of their heavenly Father.