EU has warned Elon Musk that Twitter could be banned in Europe

a reply to: andy06shake

Pity.

I remember Speakers Corner near Regents Park.

You would probably consider me a lunatic and have me silenced.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I'm not quite sure what that means.

But if you say so.

What I will probably do is sleep now it being half three here in the UK

So on that note, goodnight ATS.

a reply to: andy06shake

By removing public access to a platform because the government does not agree with the moderation, the EU is following the dictionary definition of suppression of free speech. They are prohibiting access due to expected content.

What do you think "free speech" means? Open access if it is approved? By that definition, North Korea has "free speech."

Now Apple is not a government. Apple is a company. As such, they get to advertise wherever they choose, however they choose, whenever they choose. Of course, Apple has re-thought their initial decision.

TheRedneck

a reply to: DBCowboy

sadly it is where we are, women speaking at the reformers tree* get the same kind of counter protest to shut up, or be arrested as some are deeply offended at others having different views to them but not as much as they have with like minded people associating with each other..

the reformers tree/Hyde park predates speakers corner/Hyde park..

the reformers tree is far more important than speakers corner as one is freedom of expression the other is freedom of association we have ended up in a space where many find the freedom of association as morally repugnant as the freedom of speech or expression unless its something they pre approve and know has been pre censored which i guess is why twitter issue freaks them out, its a modern reformers tree.

this is all reformation stuff with the progressives playing the part of the RC church and inquisition..

our bigger issue is at worst it risks ending the same way as the reformation at best the same as the reform league..

i consider myself a reformist over any political leaning the ideology of the west is fundamentally bankrupt..

in the uk the same colours appear over and over the white of the rue English cross that created the first parliament, the green of the levellers and the purple of the male the female reformists (suffragists).

it was ironic to see the NHS100k, the NHS workers opposed to mandatory vaccines don the reformers purple, am sure it was not planned but it does resonate with our history of rights movements.. and it fits nicely into where we are as a f*cked society..

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Apple and the EU cannot dictate to Twitter how they will conduct themselves and what sort of moderation policies they will use and how many moderators they the platform will employ.

They can however choose to remove the platform from the app store and the EU can ban Twitter same way Russia did Facebook and a few other social networks.

I know it's bad new for all the radical left wing lunatics, the transgender ideologists, and the climate change catastrophists, but twitter will no longer be governed by those individuals.

Suppose they did just ban that nut in a black hood for his antics aka star of David with Swastikas in the middle.

The Twitter is not in any mess. This is a strawman argument.

Even Musk has his concerns Asmodeus3 that's a fact not a "strawman argument".

www.npr.org...#:~:text=Yet%20the%20possibility%20of%20a,not%20start%20making%20more%20mo ney.
www.france24.com...
www.cbsnews.com...

Yes the EU can choose if they want to ban Twitter in theory. But in this case they are involved in censorship of free speech as they block access to the platform on the basis they doesn't agree with the way Twitter moderates content. In a few words they demand a specific moderation pattern which allows some political views to be expressed as well and prohibits others (which are not approved).

North Korea style!

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: andy06shake

Pity.

I remember Speakers Corner near Regents Park.

You would probably consider me a lunatic and have me silenced.

If your 'standards' of speech are not approved by the radical left wing ideology then you will be silenced according to andy06shake. Even if you state the obvious such as that a man can never become a woman as biological sex is an immutable characteristic then you could be censored or silenced.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

which is why twitter could become our reformers tree as this has evolved to be more about freedom of association than the freedoms of expression of speech that hang from the reform tree .

its going to be an interesting ride to see where the apples fall from this tree now its been shaken..

originally posted by: nickyw
a reply to: Asmodeus3

which is why twitter could become our reformers tree as this has evolved to be more about freedom of association than the freedoms of expression of speech that hang from the reform tree .

its going to be an interesting ride to see where the apples fall from this tree now its been shaken..

Equally important just as the freedom of expression.

I hope that Twitter is normalised and I don't expect miracles, just the basics, i.e a decent social media platform which will not censor free speech and won't be hijacked anymore by the radical left wing lunacy.

It's unbelievable, and as I have commented on another to thread, that anyone will have his/her account suspended because they don't accept the ludicrous claims made by the transgender ideologists, or they don't accept the Covid vaccine dogma that Covid-19 vaccines prevent transmission and infection or significantly reduce them. We all know that they don't do either of them.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: andy06shake

By removing public access to a platform because the government does not agree with the moderation, the EU is following the dictionary definition of suppression of free speech. They are prohibiting access due to expected content.

What do you think "free speech" means? Open access if it is approved? By that definition, North Korea has "free speech."

Now Apple is not a government. Apple is a company. As such, they get to advertise wherever they choose, however they choose, whenever they choose. Of course, Apple has re-thought their initial decision.

TheRedneck

Definition of censorship!

What Apple does it's their own problem as this is a private company. But they have to think carefully before they act.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I don't need a lecture on what free speech amounts to from the likes of you thats for sure.

Loads of places around the world enjoy a modicum of free speech not just America including the EU and the UK.

I know what hate speech amounts to which is where the issues arise.

And Its hate speech they wish to see removed not free speech.

I also know the difference between Twitter and ATS, which you seem to have some sort of problem distinguishing between.

If Musk refuses to moderate Twitter accordingly places like Apple and the EU will consider removing the platform, simple as that really and there is not a darn thing you or Elon can do about it bar comply with the simple request for appropriate moderation if he wishes his $44 Billion platform to remain solvent and in the game.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

Glad you accept the fact companies and nations, or a collection of such, are "free" to choose who they please to do business with or allowed to host whichever platforms in their own nations they deem fit.

If Twitter dont moderate its platform accordingly and silly derogatory or misleading dangerous content is allowed to remain then the problem will raise its head once again.

Nothing is free in the world Asmodeus3 not even words as there is always a cost price for our actions.

Moderation is a requirement and Kanye West for instance proved that in spades hence the reason he was suspended from Twitter.

Maybe you should go to North Korea and that way you may be able to appreciate the difference between our respective nations, see how you like the taste of their apples.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

They are thinking carefully and to date have not removed Twitter same as the EU.

Apple and the EU are simply telling Musk what's in store(or not as the case may be) down the line should he refuse to implement proper moderation or allow misleading dangerous content or hate speech to remain unmoderated on his media platform.

What's unbelievable is that you somehow seem to imagine people should simply be allowed to say as they please and call it free speech without and sort of repercussions.

The world simply doesn't work that way aside from in the heads of lunatics and children.

People require rules you see to congregate and communicate else it all just degenerates into anarchy.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Glad you accept the fact companies and nations are "free" to choose who they please to do business with or allowed to host which ever platforms in thier own nations they deem fit.

If Twitter dont moderate their platform accordingly and silly derogatory or misleading dangerous content allowed to remain then the problem will raise its head once again.

Nothing is free in the world Asmodeus3 not even words as there is always a cost price for our actions.

Moderation is a requirement and Kanye West for instance proved that in spades hence the reason he was suspended from Twitter.

Maybe you should go to North Korea and that way you may be able to appreciate the difference between our respective nations, see how you like the taste of their apples.

Companies and nations are free to choose who to do business with and so does twitter. They are free to moderate their content as they wish always abiding by the law and not by some random metrics of other companies and Government Agencies.

Democratically elected Governments are not free to censor free speech. The freedom of expression is protected by laws and only specific content can be censored or removed if it is unlawful or inappropriate for some age groups.

There is no expectation from twitter or from any other social media platform to remove some of their content because the Government and other private companies don't agree with the way they moderate their content.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Asmodeus3

They are thinking carefully and to date have not removed Twitter same as the EU.

Apple and the EU are simply telling Musk whats in store(or not as the case may be) down the line should he refuse to implement proper moderation or allow misleading dangerous content or hate speech to remain unmoderated on his media platform.

Whats unbelievable is that you somehow seem to imagine people should simply be allowed to say as they please and call it free speech without and sort or repercussions.

The world simply don't work that way aside from in the heads of lunatics and children.

People require rules you see to congregate and communicate else it all just degenerates into anarchy.

What is proper moderation?!
Are you having a laugh?!

What is proper thinking and proper way of expressing your views?!

The word 'proper' takes us to different times and different places...

For example if you are not thinking 'properly' you maybe engaging in dangerous misinformation. Such as that a man can never become a woman. That can be labelled as misinformation or even hate speech.

You see where you getting with this rhetoric?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: TheRedneck

I don't need a lecture on what free speech amounts to from the likes of you thats for sure.

Loads of places around the world enjoy a modicum of free speech not just America including the EU and the UK.

I know what hate speech amounts to which is where the issues arise.

And Its hate speech they wish to see removed not free speech.

I also know the difference between Twitter and ATS, which you seem to have some sort of problem distinguishing between.

If Musk refuses to moderate Twitter accordingly places like Apple and the EU will consider removing the platform, simple as that really and there is not a darn thing you or Elon can do about it bar comply with the simple request for appropriate moderation if he wishes his $44 Billion platform to remain solvent and in the game.

You do need to get reminded what free speech is and how one can express themselves.

You seem to label content as inappropriate or misleading according to arbitrary metrics defined by Governments and other private companies as if they are the arbiters of truth and what is right & wrong.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

I think you may find that the likes of hate speech is indeed illegal in both our respective nations and the EU.

Again that's what they wish to see removed and thats what they wish to see moderated.

If Elons new Twitter cannot manage that simple act then problems regarding them hosting there platform are going to arise.

As to democratically elected governments well the administration voted into power are free to implement decisions based on what there members think regarding a multitude of subjects.

Democracy however is simply a form of government Asmodeus3 its not a big im free to do whatever i please and stuff everyone else badge.

Again there have to be rules in place else anarchy prevails.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

Not me that labels the content inappropriate or misleading that's supposed to be the moderators.

You can express yourself however you please to within a reasonable limit.

But there is a limit and there are rules both here and anywhere else in the civilized world.

If in doubt start bumping your gums and about daft racist or religious nonsense and/or praising Nazi scum or holocaust denial and see how long it takes the mods to remove what im sure you would consider to be ""free speech"".

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Asmodeus3

I think you may find that the likes of hate speech is indeed illegal in both our respective nations and the EU.

Again that's what they wish to see removed and thats what they wish to see moderated.

If Elons new Twitter cannot manage that simple act then problems regarding them hosting there platform are going to arise.

As to democratically elected governments well the administration voted into power are free to implement decisions based on what there members think regarding a multitude of subjects.

Democracy however is simply a form of government Asmodeus3 its not a big im free to do whatever i please and stuff everyone else badge.

Again there have to be rules in place else anarchy prevails.

Democracy depends upon the rule of law and the separation of powers. Nobody said that one is absolutely free to do what they want but they are free to do what they want within the limits of the law. And sometimes even if they are crossing these limits.

You argue about something different here. Which we all agree.

What we don't agree is arbitrary rules and regulations that are promoted to censor and silence free speech.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

What is proper moderation?

Its not that hard to understand really.

Are you having a laugh?

Maybe at the likes of you a little.

What is proper thinking and proper way of expressing your views?!

A little decorum and restraint is all you require, simply play nice and dont be an ahole springs to mind.

The word 'proper' takes us to different times and different places...

Yeh that's called "context".

For example if you are not thinking 'properly' you maybe engaging in dangerous misinformation. Such as that a man can never become a woman. That can be labelled as misinformation or even hate speech.

If you say so, plenty of people would disagree, or see things rather differently, im actually not one of them in that specific department, but people are indeed free to identify how they please.

You see where you getting with this rhetoric?

No but im sure you think you do, just remember that light at the end of the tunnel generally turns out to be a train.

a reply to: andy06shake

Do you think that a platform doesn't suppress free speech when they censor or suspend accounts which discuss that biological sex is an immutable characteristic that cannot change.

Of course they do.


And there is a great different between unlawful content been removed and content been removed because it pleases a specific ideology.