US approves sale of F-16s to Pakistan

news.bbc.co.uk...


In an interesting turn of events, the US is to complete a sale of F-16s to pakistan, despite concerns raised by India that the sale would destabalise the current status quo of the region.

The deal was origionally signed in the 1980s, but the aircraft were never delivered due to sanctions imposed in 1990 over Pakistans nuclear program, so does this mean Bush now sees Pakistans nuclear program as legitimate? What ramifications does this have for other nuclear programs?

Also saw this on MSNBC with a headline suggesting India was upset over this.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

With all the threads and posts I've seen here glorifying India's latest fighters that are supposed to even be a match for the F-22, it is difficult to understand why India would be upset over the transfer of 30+ year old technology to Pakistan. Unless, as I have suspected, none of the IAF hype is actually true.

[edit on 3/25/2005 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by centurion1211
Also saw this on MSNBC with a headline suggesting India was upset over this.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

With all the threads and posts I've seen here glorifying India's latest fighters that are supposed to even be a match for the F-22, it is difficult to understand why India would be upset over the transfer of 30+ year old technology to Pakistan. Unless, as I have suspected, none of the IAF hype is actually true.

[edit on 3/25/2005 by centurion1211]

USA is always stabbed us from back .on the one hand he say that india relation with us is very solid.on the other hand he just sell this weapon to our enmey .
but iam happy that now india would never consider there f-16.

so by that way USA is start losing again.

and for f-16 nothing is clear which block of air craft they offring.

Edit: Double post.

[edit on 25-3-2005 by intrepid]

Originally posted by centurion1211
Also saw this on MSNBC with a headline suggesting India was upset over this.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

With all the threads and posts I've seen here glorifying India's latest fighters that are supposed to even be a match for the F-22, it is difficult to understand why India would be upset over the transfer of 30+ year old technology to Pakistan. Unless, as I have suspected, none of the IAF hype is actually true.

[edit on 3/25/2005 by centurion1211]

Just like the US got "excited" over Venezuela getting seemingly backward MiG-29s..

And Condi on her recent tour, told the pakis that they shouldn't get theri hope up too high abt those F-16s
A reason why India's extreremly cautious about acquiring the jets from the US themselves..the US govt 's just too damn flimsy when it comes to temperament..


[edit on 25-3-2005 by Daedalus3]

Oh, I thought you were going to answer my question about why India would be concerned over the sale of 'obsolete and inferior' aircraft to Pakistan for a minute there.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Oh, I thought you were going to answer my question about why India would be concerned over the sale of 'obsolete and inferior' aircraft to Pakistan for a minute there.

Well if you'd read that post of mine, you'd realise that infact I HAVE done just that

Originally posted by centurion1211
it is difficult to understand why India would be upset over the transfer of 30+ year old technology to Pakistan.

When combined with expert pilots, good strategy and a lot of balls, even biplanes can be used to great effect when attacking an enemy.

Planes carry bombs, bombs get dropped on targets. If the planes manage to evade interception, none of your advanced aircraft will suffice, even an F-22 cannot turn back time, shoot down a bomb or fix a city thats been destroyed.

[edit on 25/3/2005 by RichardPrice]

India is getting concerned over nothing. India has F-16 so why cant Pakistan? I think that if India fears the F-16's with Pakistani pilots they sure are no where near the F/A-22.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
India is getting concerned over nothing. India has F-16 so why cant Pakistan? I think that if India fears the F-16's with Pakistani pilots they sure are no where near the F/A-22.

Personally, I beleive its because it disturbs the status quo, which is currently fairly stable. Add any sort of new variable into the equation and you have to achieve a new equilibrium, which could be through threats, posturing, war or peace.

Put it this way, the US had nuclear weapons stationed in Turkey in the 1960s, why did they complain when the Russians placed nuclear missiles in Cuba? Once you can answer that, you can answer the Pakistan-India question you just posed.

Hmm reacall I psoted up a story in this very forum about the IAF also looking to the F-16 for a multirole fighter.

THis could also be a ploy to prod India into purchasing the fighter as well.

Yes, apparently the US Air Force needs money in oreder to finance their big Middle Eastern campaign.

Originally posted by Souljah
Yes, apparently the US Air Force needs money in oreder to finance their big Middle Eastern campaign.

I don't know about that. The amount of aircraft they would have to sell to finance that would be staggering. This is just a drop in that bucket.

Originally posted by Souljah
Yes, apparently the US Air Force needs money in oreder to finance their big Middle Eastern campaign.

Uh, it would be the shareholders of Lockheed Martin that would benifit not the USAF which flies but does not make the F-16. Perhpas if some boneyard examples are bought they may get a small amount but LM would be payed for thier refurbishment.

Originally posted by intrepid
I don't know about that. The amount of aircraft they would have to sell to finance that would be staggering. This is just a drop in that bucket.

Your probably right. Few squadrons sold to Pakistan wont matter to them.

But they will matter to India. I dont think they are very happy with that deal.

Maybe the US Air Force wants to get rid of older airplanes, like mister FredT said, some boneyard examples.

The bigges deal was already done.

But every buck counts.

Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by centurion1211
Oh, I thought you were going to answer my question about why India would be concerned over the sale of 'obsolete and inferior' aircraft to Pakistan for a minute there.

Well if you'd read that post of mine, you'd realise that infact I HAVE done just that

Then F16 is one of the most successful planes ever built. There have been more copies of the F16's design than nearly any other type of aircraft in the world.

Id say that the F16 has either directly, or indirectly inluenced Fighter tech more than any other plan ever made.

Even after more than two decades its current enough for many world class air forces to operate. And all things considered, cheap to boot.

I think Pakistan made a great choice. And with India's excellent pilots also flying F16's, they have little to worry about the the Pakistani pilots...

I read that to pacify India, they have offered Hornets, including possible license transfer, co-operation on nuclear technology and missile defence.

A small number of F-16s may not be a full-fledged threat, but they are a threat nonetheless.

If the news is true, I can only see it as a red herring. India may not have much use for Hornets. Nuclear co-operation will be subject to international safeguards, which India will never accept. Missile defence co-operation has been bandied around for ages, but India was never interested.

I don't think the U.S. has offered India anything like that. I think the U.S. has told India that if they want some F-16 they can have some too. Don't think the U.S. government is too concerned with keeping India happy.

Warning, Sarcasm

U.S spokesman has today said that the decision to sell weapons to Pakistan comes after years of Democratic rule under President Musharef. The U.S has also suggested that Human Rights in Pakistan have improved substantially, they now only torture suspected Islamic Militants. Further more, while India and Pakistan have fought 3 wars in the past 50 years, the U.S maintains that the weapon sales are unlikely to heighten tensions.

Oh, and finally, the U.S has again condemned E.U decision to possibly lift sanction against China due to concerns over human rights and tensions in the region.

[edit on 25-3-2005 by rapier28]

Originally posted by centurion1211
Oh, I thought you were going to answer my question about why India would be concerned over the sale of 'obsolete and inferior' aircraft to Pakistan for a minute there.

]

Because however obsolete and inferior these aircraft are, they are nuclear weapon delivery platforms gifted to the worlds biggest nuclear proliferator, weapon platforms that they would otherwise not have.

Surely someone so thunderingly well versed in military matters as you claim to be would understand the difference between political and military concern, no?