I can blow a massive holes in the "must wear masks" montra

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: neutronflux
There are people in power that are making policy for zero covid. Or making a bid for centralized government. All I can do is point out the stupidity, and resist.

I'm not them and all you are doing here is arguing with me about mask efficiency and how you can't accept less than 100%.

I’m not really arguing. You bring nothing to the table. Then I make a statement based on experience, or or cited fact, then all the sudden you come up with “you told me nothing I didn’t know”?

And keep on posting. When it’s obvious your clueless to the false information based on false modeling, and deaf to the government overreach occurring to monopolize on a crisis to further making a powerful centralized government. What’s that about never letting a crisis go to waste?

Arnold Schwarzenegger rips anti-maskers: ‘Screw your freedom’

nypost.com...

How can you “rip” someone of not doing something that is ineffective, based on false modeling?

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: neutronflux
There are people in power that are making policy for zero covid. Or making a bid for centralized government. All I can do is point out the stupidity, and resist.

I'm not them and all you are doing here is arguing with me about mask efficiency and how you can't accept less than 100%.

Personal protection equipment ether dependably and reliably keeps your safe from harm or illness, or it doesn’t. PPE that is effective doesn’t sort of protect you. You don’t sort of get ill when PPE fails. You don’t only partially get covid from wearing a cheap mask. You get covid because you falsely trusted in a useless gesture based on misleading assumptions and modeling.

originally posted by: neutronflux
I’m not really arguing. You bring nothing to the table. Then I make a statement based on experience, or or cited fact, then all the sudden you come up with “you told me nothing I didn’t know”?

So you keep bringing arguments against nothing?

And keep on posting. When it’s obvious your clueless to the false information based on false modeling, and deaf to the government overreach occurring to monopolize on a crisis to further making a powerful centralized government. What’s that about never letting a crisis go to waste?

I'm very aware of it, I am also aware that you posting here is not going to change anything.

How can you “rip” someone of not doing something that is ineffective, based on false modeling?

Don't know, I have never done it.

You don’t sort of get ill when PPE fails.

True, in an industrial setting. Many people will get sort of ill with covid if their cloth masks fail, some might not even show any symptoms. See the difference?

a reply to: daskakik

You

So you keep bringing arguments against nothing?

Filling the void with facts.

I'm very aware of it, I am also aware that you posting here is not going to change anything

While our freedoms are being taken away.

I remember people used to say live life to the fullest. Break down obstacles.

How does that work in the reality of mask mandates and lockdowns?

True, in an industrial setting.

False. Any business comes under OSHA regulations l. And any person on that business property must comply with rules and procedures to meet OSHA standards. Maybe the one exception is private farms.

Guidelines
for Retail Grocery Stores

www.osha.gov...

Best Practices for Retail Food Stores, Restaurants, and Food Pick-Up/Delivery Services During the COVID-19 Pandemic

www.fda.gov... 9

This addresses key considerations for how foods offered at retail can be safely handled and delivered to the public, as well as key best practices for employee health, cleaning and sanitizing, and personal protective equipment (PPE). This is not a comprehensive list. We encourage consulting the references and links provided below by CDC, FDA, EPA, and OSHA for more detailed information. This will be updated as FDA receives further information and inquiries.

Guidance on the Use of Masks by the General Public IDPh

www.dph.illinois.gov...


When to Wear a Mask

Everyone NOT vaccinated over the age of 2 who can medically tolerate a face covering over their nose and mouth must wear one in a public place when unable to maintain a safe distance (6 feet) from others. Examples include:

Shopping at essential businesses, like grocery stores or pharmacies.
Picking up food from the drive thru or curbside.
Visiting a health care provider,
Traveling on public transportation.
Interacting with customers, clients, or coworkers at essential businesses.
Performing essential services for state and local government agencies, such as laboratory testing, where close interactions with other people are unavoidable.
When feeling sick, coughing, or sneezing.
Those who are staying home and have no close contacts that are infected with COVID-19 do not need a mask while at home. Provided you do so alone or with close, household contacts, other situations that do not require a mask or face covering include running or walking in your neighborhood, mowing the lawn, yard cleanup, gardening, driveway car washing, and other outdoor activities on your property. Nevertheless, we must be intentional about avoiding crowds and social distancing so we can enjoy physical connections later.

This says it all for Illinois

Q: Does my child need to wear a face covering?

A: Yes. If your child is over 2 years age and does not have a medical condition or disability that prevents them from safely wearing a face covering (such as respiratory, heart, or sensory issues), then your child is required to wear a face covering if they are outdoors and unable to maintain a 6-foot distance from others or if they are in an indoor public space such as a store.

www.dph.illinois.gov...

a reply to: daskakik

So. A grocery store in say Illinois is under the regulations of OSHA (state and federal) FDA, and IDPH. And who knows how many more?

originally posted by: neutronflux
Filling the void with facts.

But these facts don't necessarily apply, like the ergonomics guidelines for supermarkets by OSHA in this last post or the inconclusive study that showed cloth/paper towel face masks were worse than nothing.

While our freedoms are being taken away.

I remember people used to say live life to the fullest. Break down obstacles.

How does that work in the reality of mask mandates and lockdowns?

How does you posting here change the situation? How efficient is it at changing it?

False. Any business comes under OSHA regulations l. And any person on that business property must comply with rules and procedures to meet OSHA standards. Maybe the one exception is private farms.

Being under OSHA doesn't mean all businesses/places are under the same regulations.

Different standards for different setting/situations.

You are really not proving anything specific here.

a reply to: daskakik

yes businesses are under different regulations and regulatory agencies

but guess what

ALL REQUIRE PPE TO BE CERITIFED FOR ITEM/ENTITY/AGENT TO BE USED AND BE ....EFFECTIVE

not 40%, not "better than nothing" , not "legalese"

again fail .

i understand that this small word game is all you really have left.
but the horse is dead , decomposed and not even the right one for this race

time to try another overused comment

maybe how we want to kill grandma?

scrounger

a reply to: scrounger
Source for this in regards to covid for the general public in public areas?

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: scrounger
Source for this in regards to covid for the general public in public areas?

see above the practical example of "you can lead a horse to water but cant make them drink"


shees after multiple posts by multiple people you have your answer

hey try taking the fingers out of your ears (as it were) and yelling "lalallallallalala"
you may get your answer


scrounger

a reply to: scrounger
Sorry you didn't point out an actual source. Do you have one that actually says ALL REQUIRE PPE TO BE CERITIFED FOR ITEM/ENTITY/AGENT TO BE USED AND BE ....EFFECTIVE, referring to the general public in public spaces in regards to covid?

Why would I have to stick my fingers in my ears when you can't provide something for me to "lalala" away?

a reply to: daskakik

You should actually read what’s posted?

Did you already know this too?

Do masks actually work? The best studies suggest they don't

www.msn.com...

originally posted by: RoScoLaz5
www.msn.com...

originally posted by: neutronflux
You should actually read what’s posted?

Did you already know this too?

Yes, I actually mentioned the proper protocol being needed for all masks, even the most efficient masks, otherwise it defeats the protection they offer but, that isn't the same as the masks not doing anything.

Either way, that has nothing to do with the argument that OSHA or some such agency's policy regulates this situation so that the best industrial practices must be applied to covid.

a reply to: daskakik

You

actually mentioned the proper protocol being needed for all masks,

What doesn’t have to do with cheap cloth masks don’t work?

Note: Anderson is referencing cloth and surgical masks, not N95 respirators).
www.msn.com...

You

Either way, that has nothing to do with the argument that OSHA or some such agency's policy regulates this situation so that the best industrial practices must be applied to covid.

Which has nothing to do mandates for children wearing masks.

Again..

Q: Does my child need to wear a face covering?

A: Yes. If your child is over 2 years age and does not have a medical condition or disability that prevents them from safely wearing a face covering (such as respiratory, heart, or sensory issues), then your child is required to wear a face covering if they are outdoors and unable to maintain a 6-foot distance from others or if they are in an indoor public space such as a store.

www.dph.illinois.gov...

What science is it based that children should wear masks against covid?

This is interesting though

Restaurants upgrade HVAC systems to limit spread of COVID-19

www.wxyz.com...

originally posted by: neutronflux
What doesn’t have to do with cheap cloth masks don’t work?

Think you worded that wrong.

We already went over this. They work to a degree. You don't think that is enough. There really nothing more to say.

Either way, that has nothing to do with the argument that OSHA or some such agency's policy regulates this situation so that the best industrial practices must be applied to covid.

Because it doesn't.

Which has nothing to do mandates for children wearing masks.

Then why did you bring it up in reply to a post about OSHA?

I mean that has been part of the argument "OSHA requires...". OSHA isn't the one in charge of these mandates.

a reply to: daskakik

You

They work to a degree.

Ether they are effective of preventing the spread of covid or not.

And guess what.

Do masks actually work? The best studies suggest they don't

www.msn.com...

By all means, quote where the article has false information.

You

Then why did you bring it up in reply to a post about OSHA?

Because OSHA standards actually protect people. That is the supposed goal. With decades of mask types, and data. Show where a cloth mask is even recommended for nuisance dust, much less protection in a viral hot zone. I would think that you would want to purse what actually works?


Now.

For child mask mandates.

What science is it based that children should wear masks against covid?

originally posted by: neutronflux
Ether they are effective of preventing the spread of covid or not.

That isn't the same as saying they do nothing.

I think the OP called that my "word game".

Because OSHA standards actually protect people.

Still their standards are not the ones being used, so, while you can cite them, they are not being applied.

You can argue that they should and I don't think many would contradict that except for those who would argue that it would imply a greater loss of freedoms.

What science is it based that children should wear masks against covid?

Don't know, wasn't my decision.

a reply to: daskakik

You

I think the OP called that my "word game".

I am not playing word games.

Do masks actually work? The best studies suggest they don't

www.msn.com...

By all means, quote where the article has false information.

What do you offer. Attitude with no citable fact

Still their standards are not the ones being used, so, while you can cite them, they are not being applied.

So. Why not use proven standards and methods if it was about protecting people.

So. Have you upgraded to N-95 masks. Or still wearing a cloth mass for show.

originally posted by: neutronflux
So. Why not use proven standards and methods if it was about protecting people.

Ask the policy makers, not me.

So. Have you upgraded to N-95 masks. Or still wearing a cloth mass for show.

I have been using the same surgical mask for almost a month. Only wear it when I need to buy something where they require one.

a reply to: daskakik

You

I have been using the same surgical mask for almost a month. Only wear it when I need to buy something where they require one.

Why. How does it protect you from the delta variant. Or from spreading it. You have to have an infection first, before any mask can actually do something if it’s about you not spreading it. And why not wear an N-95 mask that is proven to actually protect people if your going to put in the effort.

originally posted by: neutronflux
Why.

After seeing the poor protocol people in my area use, I see it is pretty pointless, but that isn't the same as saying the masks, even cheap ones, are not blocking anything, which, I pointed out, is inaccurate.