I can blow a massive holes in the "must wear masks" montra

a reply to: daskakik

You

They don't, that was the point: "None of that says people without covid wearing masks are protecting people."

Then why the mask mandates.

You

and the later my very simple point about masks that don't seal still doing something.

And again. Doing something doesn’t mean effective. Trying to soak up a tsunami with a hand sponge is doing something. But not effective.

By the way.

You, referring to masks what I label cheap masks?

They don't, they reduce the risk the same way a bulletproof vest, which doesn't cover the entire body and isn't rated for every bullet out there, reduces the risk of death from a gunshot.

Vs

Do masks actually work? The best studies suggest they don't


www.msn.com...





He goes on to cite several trials conducted over the past several years, each of which found that cloth masks and surgical masks offer very little to no benefit at all. The one trial that specifically tested masks against COVID-19 was a 2020 study in Denmark with 4,800 participants. The researchers found that “1.8 percent of those in the mask group and 2.1 percent of those in the control group became infected with Covid-19 within a month, with this 0.3-point difference not being statistically significant,” Anderson writes.

originally posted by: neutronflux
Then why the mask mandates.

What part of blanket policy didn't you understand? Plus, again, you will have to ask someone other than me.

And again. Doing something doesn’t mean effective.

No, it just means something, that is why that was said instead of saying it was effective.

He goes on to cite several trials conducted over the past several years, each of which found that cloth masks and surgical masks offer very little to no benefit at all.

That doesn't mean that masks are not catching droplets with viruses, which is still something.

The source for that article says:

The authors write that wearing a cloth mask “may potentially increase the infection risk” for health-care workers. “The virus may survive on the surface of the facemasks,” they explain, while “a contaminated cloth mask may transfer pathogen from the mask to the bare hands of the wearer,” which could lead to hand hygiene being “compromised.”

So, it isn't that the mask isn't catching the virus but that it can contaminate the hand. Guess what? That is true of any mask.

a reply to: daskakik

You

So, it isn't that the mask isn't catching the virus but that it can contaminate the hand. Guess what? That is true of any mask.

Then what is the rated efficiency of cloth mask carrying viruses.

a reply to: daskakik

And by the way.

My whole argument has anyways been wearing cheap a$$ masks that don’t seal, improperly worn, with no effective waste steam to dispose of them makes them useless.


If your every caught behind a garbage truck, try not to think of the dust and sludge blowing off of it while it goes down the road.

a reply to: daskakik

So. Thanks for agreeing with what I posted makes wearing cheap masks ineffective and useless through out this covid ordeal.

a reply to: daskakik

Looks like you affirmed my first post in this thread

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: ScepticScot

Funny your source referenced this?

Aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt, where living quarters and working environments leave little room for social distancing, a study found there was a 70% reduced risk of infection among those who used a face covering.

news.sky.com...

Or was it herd immunity, and actually removing infected people from the ship?

What type of masks were used? And were they better trained and disciplined. Ships have better control of there ventilation systems, and at keeping people in specific area ms that can be blocked off by water tight doors used for compartmentalization to combat flooding and causalities.

COVID-19 spread freely aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt, report shows

www.cidrap.umn.edu...

In the case series, the US Army Public Health COVID-19 Task Force analyzed data from 736 of 4,800 USS Theodore Roosevelt sailors diagnosed as having COVID-19 and placed in isolation at Naval Base Guam from Mar 31 to Apr 15. Sailors who tested negative for coronavirus and those without symptoms were quarantined in single hotel rooms, and those who developed symptoms were moved to isolation.

The outbreak, which peaked on Mar 30 with 30 new cases and ultimately infected 25% of the crew members, involved 736 of the 4,085 sailors on board (18%) by mid-April. Of all infected sailors, 590 (80.2%) were symptomatic for a median of 7 days. The other 146 sailors remained without symptoms for the entire study period. Six sailors were hospitalized.

Anyway

Personal protective equipment can only protect you.

It’s not called social protective equipment.

Cheap cloth masks are not made to trap and hold snot and slobber for hours on end such as being forced to wear them at work.

Cheap procedural masks do not stay in place such as when loading lumber or groceries.

I was thought in the military and industry a mask that doesn’t seal is useless.

Cheap procedure masks don’t seal. They don’t have a hard edge that actually creates a seal like a N-95 mask or a respirator.



Do NOT Use a Mask With a Filtered Valve (It Can Spread COVID-19)

healthnewshub.org...

These are known as one-way valves, with the filter functional only in one direction. As you inhale, the incoming air is filtered. As you exhale, the outgoing mixture of carbon dioxide, oxygen, water vapor and, yes, possibly COVID-19 viral particles releases unfiltered. The San Francisco Department of Public Health actually tweeted a warning that these masks “may actually propel your germs further.” It prohibited them in its original public health order requiring masks or other face covering during the pandemic.



Wearing a mask that doesn’t seal is as effective as wearing a mask with an exit valve.

Most cheap stringy procedure masks are about 40 percent effective.

Would you use a condom for birth control that was only 40 percent effective.

It would capture about 40 percent of the sperm. But can you really say it would have a measurable decline in pregnancies?

originally posted by: neutronflux
Looks like you affirmed my first post in this thread

Really, after repeatedly telling you I never argued against that point, it finally sunk in?

Would you use a condom for birth control that was only 40 percent effective.

It would capture about 40 percent of the sperm. But can you really say it would have a measurable decline in pregnancies?

Couldn't say if it would cause a measurable decline in pregnancies, although it might.

What I could say is that they are stopping something and that was all I said about masks that are 40 percent efficient because that is true.

a reply to: daskakik

What sunk in?

I haven’t change may stance or what I post concerning masks in this thread, or earlier threads.

Shrugs…

What I could say is that they are stopping something and that was all I said about masks that are 40 percent efficient because that is true.

And again. Something doesn’t equate effective.

A misquote flapping it’s wings in a hurricane is something.

Does a N-95 mask with an exit valve do something,

What is that something? How effective is that something?

Something usually means ambiguous with no defined proof of anything.


So masks that do something means they mostly do nothing.

originally posted by: neutronflux
What sunk in?

You're in bad shape when it is written right there and you still don't see it.

"repeatedly telling you I never argued against that point"

Pages later, "seems like you agree", yeah that is what I have been saying all along.

And again. Something doesn’t equate effective.

This is the same as the point above, nobody has ever said they are the same, so before we go another 10 pages with you not getting it:

something =/= nothing.

Let's see if you can refute that.

a reply to: daskakik

You

You're in bad shape when it is written right there and you still don't see it.

See what

That “something” is meaningless?

And saying something is the mostly nothing,

something =/= nothing.

Sorry.

Posted this fist.

And again. Something doesn’t equate effective.

A misquote flapping it’s wings in a hurricane is something.

Does a N-95 mask with an exit valve do something,

What is that something? How effective is that something?

Something usually means ambiguous with no defined proof of anything.


So masks that do something means they mostly do nothing.

Now. Quote where I ever posted “ something =/= nothing. ”

I just posted the simple fact that a mask that doesn’t seal is useless as protection whatever role you want to employ a mask.

This will continue because you cannot answer questions honestly.

What’s the rating these masks even do something.

Hanes Cotton Face Coverings - Set of 10

www.qvc.com... 7CL%7CBrandProduct%7Csports+fitness-_-Sports+Fitness-_-dm_66245058864_pla-1163045077649__A399754-012-625&cm_mmca1=m&cm_mmca2=66245058864&cm_mmca3=pla- 1163045077649&cm_mmca4=A399754-012-625&cm_mmca5=pla&cm_mmca6=816860589&cm_mmca7=Acquisition&cm_mmca8=Acq&cm_mmca9=EAIaIQobChMItPPhrPe48gIVIQV9Ch2OJALk EAQYAyABEgKvXPD_BwE&cm_mmca12=Vendor&cm_mmca13=Sports+Fitness&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItPPhrPe48gIVIQV9Ch2OJALkEAQYAyABEgKvXPD_BwE&TZ=EST

Description
Make sure you have comfortable coverage for your entire crew with this set of 10 cotton face coverings. From Hanes.

Cloth face coverings are not respirators or disposable face masks and do not protect the wearer from exposures. Cloth face coverings are only intended to help contain the wearer's respiratory droplets from being spread.
Includes 10 reusable face coverings
Two-layer construction
Adjustable nose piece
Front panel pleats
60% cotton/40% polyester
Machine wash, tumble dry
Imported

“ Cloth face coverings are only intended to help contain the wearer's respiratory droplets from being spread.” Equates into being rated to stop covid how.

I bet there is a legal reason that they cannot advertise at preventing doing something against the spread of covid. Which would be the actual intent of wearing a mask.

originally posted by: neutronflux
See what

That “something” is meaningless?

No, that I never said I disagreed with that post but now you are acting surprised although I kept telling you that page after page.

And again. Something doesn’t equate effective.

That is literally what I responded to?

Can you refute something =/= nothing?

Because that is what I said.

Of course you can't because something can never be nothing.

a reply to: daskakik

You

Can you refute something =/= nothing?

Quote where I posted something different.

I asked you first…

Does a N-95 mask with an exit valve do something,

And again. Something doesn’t equate effective.

A misquote flapping it’s wings in a hurricane is something.

What is that something? How effective is that something?

Something usually means ambiguous with no defined proof of anything.

So, masks that do something means they mostly do nothing.

A lot of the food we eat is processed in a factory with people wearing masks. You would feel better if none of them wore a mask? If masks don't work in preventing the spreading of germs, then why don't you guys go after all the food processors? Or why haven't you pre-2020?

originally posted by: neutronflux
So, masks that do something means they mostly do nothing.

You posted 40% efficiency. That is way more than 0.

So, nobody said there are not more efficient masks and even you posted that cheap masks do something, so what are you debating?

You posted 40% efficiency. That is way more than 0.

So, nobody said there are not more efficient masks and even you posted that cheap masks do something, so what are you debating?

Same thing as always.

If masks are effective, then why the call to double mask?

If N-95 masks that have an exit valve are not to be worn because they don’t protect people from what you exhale, how is that different than a mask that doesn’t seal when what you exhale, cough, sneeze and it slips by the gaps between the mask and the skin un filtered.

Probably too logical and factual for you.

Let’s stay with your realm of comprehension. Mask that you can only label as doing “something” to me are masks that do mostly nothing.

But this is all moot. Because N-95 masks without exit valves are widely available.

So instead of wearing a mask with no rating, and it’s effectiveness is reflected in that rating. You can purchase and wear masks that actually have a rating to reflect how effective they are. Masks that can actually seal against the skin all along the rim of the mask.

I don’t support mask mandates.

But it is nice to see experts are starting to recommend effective masks.

Why some experts recommend upgrading to N95 masks to help fight the delta variant

www.washingtonpost.com...

Now that people are calling for effective masks. Only if people would don and wear them correctly. Change them out every hour or two. Or change them when wetted with sweat, snot, or slobber. And there was proper handling and disposal of masks that might be contaminated.

a reply to: neutronflux
You provide proof of my point and keep on acting like someone is contradicting you, when it also includes you.

Looks like you can carry on debating yourself then.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: neutronflux
You provide proof of my point and keep on acting like someone is contradicting you, when it also includes you.

Looks like you can carry on debating yourself then.

Then something doesn’t equate to effective and leaves room for being mostly doing nothing.

originally posted by: neutronflux
Then something doesn’t equate to effective and leaves room for being mostly doing nothing.

Not when you say it is 40% effective. That is far from nothing, not mostly nothing.

a reply to: scrounger

The masks work. They are not 100% but they do offer some protection.

Prior to COVID, my 9 year old daughter caught some sort of upper respiratory ailment every single quarter, every school year...religiously. Strep, colds, flu, coughs, etc, etc...I believe in 2019 she was out a grand total of 22 days for all sorts of issues. It seemed as soon as she was back in school, she was out again for some reason. Well, during the lockdown and even after she went back to school post-lock down, she has had ZERO problems. Reason? The face mask primarily and also sanitizing her hands. No having kids (super-spreaders) constantly breathing in her face, coughing, sneezing, spitting and just spraying droplets of whatever has helped tremendously. I must say everyone being masked up must be the primary reason the rates of her illness has dropped to non-existent levels.

a reply to: 727Sky

What I hate is that I work for a health system and people that I thought I trusted tout the efficacy of masks without any proof that they work. It's all about show and has been since day one. The second those in power saw that the masses would obey, they knew they sell us on anything.