Archeotheology

originally posted by: Akragon
which means there was a flood... it wasn't global... there has never been a global flood in the history of the planet...

You weren't there. We have written evidence from countless cultures that have record of these times, and they say it was global






Just like the Chinese account, the Hebrews also dated the global flood to around 2200BC. The Mesopotamians also say a similar date, they say it occurred at the end of the age of Taurus which is around 2200BC. It is historical fact. You refuse to believe it because you associate the flood with only Hebrew history, which you are strongly biased against.

a reply to: cooperton

Just like i said, all of you use the same idea... you weren't there... and my bias comes from some of the stories found in said "history"... noah gathered two of every animal onto his ark, made my a senior and his kids...big enough to house every "kind"... survived said flood, and the animals and people managed to repopulate the entire earth... its a kids story, and probably has a basis of truth... but mostly its illogical nonsense...

Floods happen, and they're recorded through out history... but theres no evidence of a global flood ever happening... especially one which covered mountains.

Christians will grasp at anything they can find to prove their stories true... which is where most of the so called evidence of these stories come from.. and 90% of the time its fabricated... like the ark on Mt ararat

a reply to: cooperton

Chinas flood is documented. Tye yellow river about 3500 bc

Babylons is the same myth as tye mediterranean, India, and Europe. The black sea. 7500bc

Hawaii....wait....you means a tropical island has a flood myth? Im shocked.

a reply to: Akragon

Or the natives retelling planted stories from christian missionaries

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

sounds a bit more real..

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: cooperton

Chinas flood is documented. Tye yellow river about 3500 bc

That's a different flood then, the global one apparently occurred in 2200 BC

Babylons is the same myth as tye mediterranean, India, and Europe. The black sea. 7500bc

No this was depicted in the Epic of Gilgamesh. It was a worldwide flood that occurred around 2200 BC

a reply to: cooperton

Your second meme, the first one about China is a lie. The Hihking is an American invention and its first mention anywhere in the world is in Nelson's The Deluge Story in Stone (1931, 181-182)

The second one about China is a tiny fragment of a very long story that talks about uncontrolled river basin flooding over 20 years of trying to build dikes and canals and only gained control after deepening and widening all canals streams and rivers. It lines up exactly with what BFFT was trying to explain. They needed to dredge the silt washed downstream. It does your position no good when you dont even research your own source material.

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: cooperton

Your second meme, the first one about China is a lie. The Hihking is an American invention and its first mention anywhere in the world is in Nelson's The Deluge Story in Stone (1931, 181-182)

The second one about China is a tiny fragment of a very long story that talks about uncontrolled river basin flooding over 20 years of trying to build dikes and canals and only gained control after deepening and widening all canals streams and rivers. It lines up exactly with what BFFT was trying to explain. They needed to dredge the silt washed downstream. It does your position no good when you dont even research your own source material.

That quote is from the Chinese account, saying it covered hills and mountains and even threatened the heavens. You're too biased to consider that Hebrew history is valid, despite the many corroborating flood accounts from various continents.

a reply to: cooperton

The Great Flood of Gun-Yu (Chinese: 鯀禹治水), also known as the Gun-Yu myth,was a major flood event in ancient China that allegedly continued for at least two generations, which resulted in great population displacements among other disasters, such as storms and famine. People left their homes to live on the high hills and mounts, or nest on the trees. According to mythological and historical sources, it is traditionally dated to the third millennium BCE, or about 2300-2200 BC, during the reign of Emperor Yao.

However, archaeological evidence of an outburst flood on the Yellow River, comparable to similar severe events in the world in the past 10,000 years, has been dated to about 1900 BC (a few centuries later than the traditional beginning of the Xia dynasty which came after Emperors Shun and Yao), and is suggested to have been the basis for the myth.

en.wikipedia.org...(China)

Who is biased?

I feel the flooding came from water from Mars. The big side gash on Mars where something scraped the planet? This knocking the water off Mars into space, to be picked up by Earth passing by. Or the earth had a pole reversal and water sloshed around violently. Some days I feel God is energy, or an ET. No one alive knows what went on in the past. It’s all fascinating to speculate. Science explains a lot, but it doesn’t explain everything. There are a lot of unexplained moments in time and in life.

originally posted by: TzarChasm


en.wikipedia.org...(China)

Who is biased?

Notice your source is wikipedia, while mine is the original document. The text itself says they fleed to the mountains. Same with the Incans, they even claim lamas still hang out in high mountains ever since the great flood. That wikipedia page is just an example of your same secular bias... you ignore history simply because it disagrees with your viewpoints

a reply to: cooperton

The actual source

originally posted by: TzarChasm

The actual source

Same bias. They simply don't believe the account. If it was just one account I could understand your skepticism, but every continent in the world has cultures that describe a global flood that only a few survived. The volume of water for necessary to flood the earth was found underneath the earth by the researchers who i mentioned on the first page.

a reply to: cooperton

Please link to discussion of the layer of sediment covering the whole world from 2200bc. Should be a thick layer of silt and dead animals and vegetation.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

The actual source

Same bias. They simply don't believe the account. If it was just one account I could understand your skepticism, but every continent in the world has cultures that describe a global flood that only a few survived. The volume of water for necessary to flood the earth was found underneath the earth by the researchers who i mentioned on the first page.

No one knew what "global" meant in those days. Do you think they knew that the future America was covered in water? How about Antarctica and South Africa?
You're attempting to sell your crap to people who know the difference.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: cooperton

Please link to discussion of the layer of sediment covering the whole world from 2200bc. Should be a thick layer of silt and dead animals and vegetation.

Hydrologic sorting is the physical phenomenon that happens when water is settling... it creates sediment layers with gradations.

originally posted by: Phantom423

Do you think they knew that the future America was covered in water?

All throughout the America's they also depict a global flood that covered the earth... so yeah there is corroborating evidence

originally posted by: cooperton




Hydrologic sorting is the physical phenomenon that happens when water is settling... it creates sediment layers with gradations.

Perhaps. But a deluge would not have water just settling. It would have raging torrents gushing out of mountains and into the valleys. Now, i am quite aware of the drumlin hills and the research into some of the glacial dam breaks that happened prior to human history in north america (oral or otherwise). These could potentially date back in the 11kya range or further. And as a conspiracy theorist, my mind flits back and forth considering that Clovis Culture could represent a resurgence of humanity that once thrived in the Americas, especially as we find sites that seem to be absurdly ancient more recently.

But when you look for evidence of the flood you discuss...there would be signs everywhere. Enormous canyons in place of the estuaries and deltas in the global river basins. Deep scarring of mountain river beds and the valleys they drain into. Large volumes of displaced rock as the roaring flood waters pushed down to sea level.

Even the pyramids...where is the evidence that the pyramids were submerged? 2200bc would absolutely have the pyramids under water, too.

Where is it?

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

The actual source

Same bias. They simply don't believe the account. If it was just one account I could understand your skepticism, but every continent in the world has cultures that describe a global flood that only a few survived. The volume of water for necessary to flood the earth was found underneath the earth by the researchers who i mentioned on the first page.

They found water under the surface of the planet. Nowhere does it say they found evidence that all of it surged to the surface and covered the whole world and then rushed back underground. No evidence that the entire planet was submerged at the same time.

a reply to: TzarChasm

On an interesting related note, Ceres has been found to have quite a bit of underground water. The articles are explaining that the water could be moving toward the surface, as evidenced by salt deposits.

The way it was stated was that it is a predictable/common event, and that planets could be known to have water stored within the planet, and that the water moves to the surface. Im not a planetary scientist or anything, and have to assume that its a result of centrifugal "force" pushing water outwards.

In any event, its an interesting tidbit for this discussion.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
...You've got the Earth, which has always had water. However, if the nearly universal flood legends are to be believed, it got a whole lot MORE water at some time just before the historical period. Then, you've got Mars, a planet which apparently once had lots of water, but now has almost none. Photography by probes and satellites shows us huge "outflow channels" but where did the water go? If Velikovsky is correct, and Mars did come very close to Earth, could Mars' water have flooded over to the deeper gravity well?...

The same evidence you use for past flowing water on Mars also tells us that the surface water has been gone from Mars for 3.5 Billion years. 3.5 Billion years ago, there was only single-cell microbial life on Earth. It wouldn't be for another 2.5 Billion year after that (a little less that 900 Million years ago) that more complex life forms began to inhabit the Earth.

That is to say, nobody would have been around to pass down the story of a great flood 3.5 billion years ago.

Having said that, it is likely the Earth was in fact almost totally covered with water 3 to 3.5 billion years ago (no contents, but just some mini-land masses), but it likely had roughly the same amount of water it has today. The continents eventually formed through intense volcanism and much of the water seeped into the crust, where it remains today. The crust is believed to hold at least twice as much water as the surface (some say maybe 10X the amount on the surface), but locked away in hydrated rocks.

But again, that was 3 Billion + years ago. That's a long time ago. If the entirety of Earth's history were a 24-hour day, that water-Earth would have happened 19 hours ago. To give some perspective on how long ago that was compared to (say) the dinosaurs, the end of the dinosaur era would have been only 20 minutes ago using that 24-hour earth history clock. Humans (Homo sapiens) would have come on the scene about 1 second ago using that 24-hour history.