Trumps says US could sever all ties with China

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: Jay-morris

If enough countries stopped doing business with us because of Yemen we *might* think twice about our BS foreign policy decisions in the ME. I doubt it but we might.

But they will not stop doing business with you, no matter what. That is my point.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Jay-morris

Ah, well, it's really been fun pointing out your illogic, but alas... all good things must come to an end. It appears it is time for wrasslin'.

That's right; watching a choreographed arrangement of make-believe fights without even an audience for ambiance is more pleasurable for me than reading your pitiful attempts at insults. Maybe I'll get bored later and come back for some yucks. Until then, have fun.

TheRedneck

Thought as much! While you are doing your studies, may I suggest you take up grammar. It's amazing how sentences change when you learn what things like question marks mean!

It wouldn't take 10-20 years to switch over manufacturing to other countries.

With 3D printers and all the new tech, it could happen much faster - I'm guessing one or two years. Five at the most.

As I said China relies on other countries for food and energy - cut those off and things will go back very quickly.

I'm not sure who Russia would side with - if Russia cutoff oil, China would be in very bad shape very quickly.

a reply to: Daughter2

As I said China relies on other countries for food and energy - cut those off and things will go back very quickly.

Why the hell would you want to cut that off and risk millions of people dying? Or are you one of the people who looks at another country as a collective, and not full of millions of individuals?

What is wrong with you!?

a reply to: JAGStorm

This is just a crazy nonsensical notion Trumps bumping his gums and coming away with so as to lay the blame at Chinas feet when it's already all over their doorstep thus mitigate his abysmal treatment of the whole situation back home.

The US economy, from trade with China, includes the purchase of $165 billion in goods and services from the United States in 2015, representing 7.3% of all US exports and about 1% of total US economic output.

U.S. imports from China account for 21.2% of overall U.S. imports in 2018.

The top import categories in 2018 were electrical machinery ($152 billion), machinery ($117 billion), furniture and bedding ($35 billion), toys and sports equipment ($27 billion), and plastics ($19 billion).

Good luck turning off that faucet at both ends, because the outcome is going to be detrimental to any recovery or return to whatever the feck normality was considered to be, that's for sure.

No, I'm not advocating doing that and if trade is stopped I would support providing food.

I'm just saying China is just as dependent on the US as the US is on China.

There were previous posts saying how China has the upper hand and that's not necessarily true.

BTW: My personal opinion is that this entire situation is to put more control in the 1% - it has very little to do with communism.

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: Alien Abduct

Exactly, In another thread, I basically said, all the politicians need to do is implement tariffs on all products made from in China, that increases every 6 months. start @ 25%, 6 months later 50%, 6 months later 75%, 6 months later 100%, no max cap, it just keeps going up. At the same time, tell all American businesses that they are going to bring ALL manufacturing back to the USA. They WILL NOT send it to another country, and they are not allowed to raise prices by more than 2% per month. All construction and equipment will be subsidized via 0% 10 year loans. All jobs repatriated will by given a $2000 a year subsidy, that increases $2000 for 20 years. Meaning they have very big incentive to get and keep jobs in the USA for 20 years. as at the end of 20 years, they would get a $40,000 final subsidy for an employee, which would basically pay most of the salary.

While you do that, you pass legislation for fair trade. Meaning no trade imbalances more than 10% on all nations. So nations that we give more, than get, we need to make trades with to purchase. Nations that have an imbalance with us, well, guess they need to fix the imbalance, or have tariffs levied. Eventually, you will get balanced trade, fair trade, and a stronger american economy.

Increase minimum wage. I personally hate paying tips. Mandate all jobs have to pay minimum wage, then minimum wage is determined by how much a family of 3 can live on on one salary without gov benefits. ($38k), next mandate minimum hours per day (6) or minimum hours per week (16). What this does force business to give people fair hours. So you work most a day, then you can go to another job, or they only schedule you 2-3 days basically so you get 12/18 hours while giving you room to work another job or two.

Lastly, all international businesses that have more than 1 Billion in trade in the USA, will be classified as an american entity, and as such, all they business assets and profit around the world will be taxed. What this means is that they will split their companies up, and have an american headquarters and business, or pull out, giving an american business a chance to rise.

Just my 2 cents at how I would fix stuff.

Camain

I agree. This is what I'm thinking about...solutions!

I invite any opposing party to please submit their solutions!

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: Daughter2

As I said China relies on other countries for food and energy - cut those off and things will go back very quickly.

Why the hell would you want to cut that off and risk millions of people dying? Or are you one of the people who looks at another country as a collective, and not full of millions of individuals?

What is wrong with you!?

Yeah, that could almost be as bad as when Mao’s Great Leap Forward and other brainchildren caused the Great Chinese Famine from 1959-1961. The lowest death toll I’ve seen: 15 million. The highest: 60 million.

Actually, I don’t think anywhere close to that many would starve as a result of a U.S. trade embargo. Probably none would in reality.

Other nations export grain and animal products, and tens of millions of Chinese might have to sacrifice some of the food luxuries they’ve come to enjoy, but no one need starve.

China would have to devote more of its people to food production. The People’s Liberation Army — which actually includes all of China’s armed forces, including its navy — could repurpose itself for food production. It has 2.5 million personnel, and since no one is contemplating invading China, its new mission would not endanger the nation’s sovereignty. That is, as long as you don’t think the South China Sea, East China Sea, or Tibet belong to China; or China’s claims along the Indian border are legit.

China would have plenty of unemployed people to work in food production since 19 percent of its exports would be eliminated by an embargo with the United States.

What I’m proposing isn’t remotely as cruel as the Communist Party of China has been to its own people. It’s possible that no one in China would die as a result of an embargo, although rioting unemployed workers could be a problem for the government. Frankly, I don’t have much sympathy. We’ve already lost as many as 85,000 Americans to the Chinese virus. To hell with ‘em, I say.

For goodness sake, Mao Zedong’s image graces every renminbi banknote, from 1 renminbi bills to 100 renminbi bills. His embalmed body is on public display in a huge mausoleum in the middle of Tiananmen Square. How appropriate.

What other nation on Earth honors one of the greatest mass murderers in history with such devotion? We need to stop aiding this monstrous regime in any way, shape or form.

a reply to: Jay-morris

I have zero control over that and our elections are categorical frauds.

He won't do it.

Trump makes a lot of stupid statements just to inflame his followers with their righteous zeal, then doesn't follow through.

Currently China is Trumps candidate for his vitriol because he wants to deflect his problems with the pandemic here at home.

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: Irishhaf

So you cant show where I said I was ok with what the US has done is what you are saying, thanks for admitting you tried to put words in my mouth.

Well answer my question. Should countries stop doing business with America because they are funding the terrible things we are seeing in Yemen?

You posted stuff about China to justify how bad they are right? So answer the question.

They’re free to stop doing business with us and I don’t give a damn if they do. The United States consumer market is 30 percent of the entire world’s consumer market. If you stop selling in the USA, there’s nothing to replace it.

BTW, we’re not funding the terrible things in Yemen. That’s all on Saudi Arabia. Now I happen to agree we should stop supporting the Saudis by selling them defense products. But your precious Chinese would be more than happy to fill that vacuum, first, because China sells anything to anyone, and second, to ensure its desperately needed supply of oil.

China imports at least two-thirds of the oil it needs, and that’s projected to grow to 80 percent by 2030. I sure hope some powerful navy doesn’t blockade tankers headed to China through the Strait of Malacca and Sunda Strait! That would bring the Middle Kingdom’s economy to a screeching halt once its oil stockpiles run out.

a reply to: Scapegrace

China imports at least two-thirds of the oil it needs, and that’s projected to grow to 80 percent by 2030. I sure hope some powerful navy doesn’t blockade tankers headed to China through the Strait of Malacca and Sunda Strait! That would bring the Middle Kingdom’s economy to a screeching halt once its oil stockpiles run out.

And China is well aware of that.

This bleeds into the Russia/Iran/Syria situation. Russia has oil; they need money to get it out of the ground. China has money; they need oil to fuel their economic engine to accomplish their goals. The two countries share a border, so delivery is not an issue like it is by tanker.

The only thing stopping this perfect relationship is that Russia does not have the economic power to pump enough oil to satisfy China. That has been the cause of the Syria conflict: Iran and Russia now have a pipeline connecting them, and one through Iraq and Syria would give them a Mediterranean port. The more oil Russia can sell, the more oil they can get out of the ground, and China wants that oil. If things keep getting tight, it wouldn't surprise me to see an economic alliance between China and Russia similar to the US/Saudi relationship. If that happens, China is indeed poised to become the world's largest economic superpower.

Right now, the low cost of oil is the only thing stopping this from happening. If the US had not opened up its oil deposits for production when we did, we might be in a totally different position right now.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Scapegrace

BTW, we’re not funding the terrible things in Yemen. That’s all on Saudi Arabia. 

Are you ignorant, or do you just like to ignore when your government goes terrible things? The US has been providing bombs to aid the Saudi forces and airstrikes in Yemen, this is fact! The United States provided intelligence and logistical support, including aerial refueling and search-and-rescue for downed coalition pilots. It also accelerated the sale of weapons to coalition states and continued strikes against AQAP.

If that was another country who was not an ally doing the same thing, how many threads would be popping up on how bad that country was?

How many threads have you seen talking about America's involvement in Yemen?

But your precious Chinese would be more than happy to fill that vacuum, 

Oh I get it, saying bad things about your government, and that must mean I love the Chinese Government. Maybe I am a communist, or maybe a chinese spy!

Dear oh dear!

a reply to: Jay-morris

Maybe I am a communist, or maybe a chinese spy!

Are you?

Just asking, since you brought it up...

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: Scapegrace

BTW, we’re not funding the terrible things in Yemen. That’s all on Saudi Arabia. 

Are you ignorant, or do you just like to ignore when your government goes terrible things? The US has been providing bombs to aid the Saudi forces and airstrikes in Yemen, this is fact! The United States provided intelligence and logistical support, including aerial refueling and search-and-rescue for downed coalition pilots. It also accelerated the sale of weapons to coalition states and continued strikes against AQAP.

If that was another country who was not an ally doing the same thing, how many threads would be popping up on how bad that country was?

How many threads have you seen talking about America's involvement in Yemen?

But your precious Chinese would be more than happy to fill that vacuum, 

Oh I get it, saying bad things about your government, and that must mean I love the Chinese Government. Maybe I am a communist, or maybe a chinese spy!

Dear oh dear!

Yes, I know we’re selling the Saudis weapons; I said as much. That doesn’t mean we’re funding it. But I agree we should sever ties with Saudi Arabia. It’s an evil regime that has funded terrorism and recently harmed the U.S. oil industry with its production battle with Russia. And it treats women abominably.

What I don’t understand is your mantra that Americans shouldn’t criticize China for anything because our hands are dirty, too. OK, I admit we’ve done plenty of terrible things in our history. I don’t know any American who thinks we have a spotless past or present. Every American has heard over and over about the evil institution of slavery in this country and the genocide of Native Americans. Very few Americans will deny these sins or their wickedness. We’re taught about them in school, the news media frequently reminds us, we see it in films, primetime TV and cable, in social media and websites like this one and no telling how many others.

But just because we’ve done evil things — as every nation has — that doesn’t make our criticism of China any less accurate or fair. You’re a Brit if I recall correctly. Yet you criticize the United States? Shouldn’t I be telling you not to criticize America because of all the evil Britain has done?

Criticize America to your heart’s content. I can’t stop you and we Americans are used to it. But why would you defend China? You’ll probably say you’re not defending the government of China, but it sure seems like it. I’ve yet to see you criticize any actions of the Chinese government. Is there anything you find objectionable about the CCP? How about five things? I won’t object if you criticize China even though the UK has done terrible things.

a reply to: JAGStorm

What trump and the free world needs to do is annex their mineral mines.

most of the electronic products you use comes from minerals dug up by china, so take that away and they'd be screwed, no income from iPhones, laptops, etc- then the free world can manufacture their own products, bolster national manufacturing, take away their mines, and we win the economy.

If we did that by force, China would be afraid. They might be the most populous nation, but not the smartest. Look at the quality of products, A Chinese fighter jet it would probably burst into flames before it reaches the end of the runway.

a reply to: JAGStorm

"Vaccine or no vaccine we are back"

Perfect clear as mud.

Apparently the problem is, that with testing, well it gives more cases.

You canny make this crap up, if it was not so tragic, it would be fecking hilarious.

a reply to: Scapegrace

Yes, I know we’re selling the Saudis weapons; I said as much. That doesn’t mean we’re funding it. But I agree we should sever ties with Saudi Arabia. It’s an evil regime that has funded terrorism and recently harmed the U.S. oil industry with its production battle with Russia. And it treats women abominably.

What I don’t understand is your mantra that Americans shouldn’t criticize China for anything because our hands are dirty, too. OK, I admit we’ve done plenty of terrible things in our history. I don’t know any American who thinks we have a spotless past or present. Every American has heard over and over about the evil institution of slavery in this country and the genocide of Native Americans. Very few Americans will deny these sins or their wickedness. We’re taught about them in school, the news media frequently reminds us, we see it in films, primetime TV and cable, in social media and websites like this one and no telling how many others.

But just because we’ve done evil things — as every nation has — that doesn’t make our criticism of China any less accurate or fair. You’re a Brit if I recall correctly. Yet you criticize the United States? Shouldn’t I be telling you not to criticize America because of all the evil Britain has done?

Criticize America to your heart’s content. I can’t stop you and we Americans are used to it. But why would you defend China? You’ll probably say you’re not defending the government of China, but it sure seems like it. I’ve yet to see you criticize any actions of the Chinese government. Is there anything you find objectionable about the CCP? How about five things? I won’t object if you criticize China even though the UK has done terrible things.

I have never said you should not criticise the Chinese Government. What my problem is, a lot of people are saying would should cut ties with China because of their history with how they treat their own people.

Also has some idiot say we should nuke China!

This a a problem that affects most people. It's called conditioned patrioism. Basically what it means is a lot of people will ignore their own government horrors, while pointing their fingers at other countries and how bad they are.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I'm all for this.

We should replace fake-china (communist China) with real-China (Taiwan) and establish full diplomatic relations with them and Hong Kong.

a reply to: andy06shake

Apparently the problem is, that with testing, well it gives more cases.

Actually, there are no more cases with testing... just more known cases. They already existed whether we tested for them or not.

Just a guess, but I would hazard to say knowing what it is you're combating is a good thing. Maybe even a *gasp* scientific thing...

TheRedneck