We are all going to die! Over-reaction, or politically influenced myopia? A few points about Wu Flu

a reply to: Riffrafter

I am not a Medical Doctor.

But if I duckduckgo search "increase of respiratory problem after flu shoots"

duckduckgo.com...


First link study on how flu vaccine respiratory infections
A True Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated Study
healthimpactnews.com...

An abstract to one study
Increased Risk of Noninfluenza Respiratory Virus Infections Associated With Receipt of Inactivated Influenza Vaccine
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

We randomized 115 children to trivalent inactivated influenza vaccine (TIV) or placebo. Over the following 9 months, TIV recipients had an increased risk of virologically-confirmed non-influenza infections (relative risk: 4.40; 95% confidence interval: 1.31-14.8). Being protected against influenza, TIV recipients may lack temporary non-specific immunity that protected against other respiratory viruses.

Influenza vaccination is effective in preventing influenza virus infection and associated morbidity among school-aged children [1, 2]. The potential for temporary nonspecific immunity between respiratory viruses after an infection and consequent interference at the population level between epidemics of these viruses has been hypothesized, with limited empirical evidence to date, mainly from ecological studies [3–15]. We investigated the incidence of acute upper respiratory tract infections (URTIs) associated with virologically confirmed respiratory virus infections in a randomized controlled trial of influenza vaccination.

originally posted by: lakenheath24
Why on earth would china release a stink bomb on its own people when its economy is slowing? And now it is affecting production and jepordizing a lot of the worlds JIT supply chains????

That theory makes no sense.
And we all carried antidotes to anthrax and other nasty stuff when deployed overseas. And got annual flu shots. And what are flu shots? Dead antibodies. Easily reproduced from any strain of cold/flu. There is no way a government would create something without an antidote. You gotta protect the chosen ones ya know.

a reply to: angelchemuel

You asked and answered your own question in the first sentence.

Maybe because it's economy is slowing, they are trying to "thin the herd" and get rid of the old, the sick and the infirm as they tend to be far less productive and are a drag on society and infrastructure.

Who knows?

Do you ever feel like nature is trying to “cull the herd” due to over population?

I reference this quote which is only slightly relevant but still: Dyson, who makes kayaks by day, is refreshingly neither utopianist nor dystopianist about artificial intelligence. “In the game of life,” he writes, “there are three players at the table: human beings, nature, and machines. I am firmly on the side of nature. But nature, I suspect, is on the side of the machines.”

a reply to: lakenheath24

Im an ORF.

What's an ORF?

So.... after just reading an article about how the growth is slowing, the new morning numbers rolled in.
Compare...
Monday at noon-

Now-


That’s a 50% increase in cases, 450 more deaths, and 2500 more cured (Still almost a 19% death rate of you believe all the numbers).

This is insane. And watch that ship, boys and girls. They are increasing by 25% every time they test, and no one is talking about how easily it is spreading (prolonged exposure needed my Butt).

You have to look at this from a pragmatic standpoint.

I will take an over reaction to head in the sand day in and day out. If this is the issue that gets people thinking about maybe doing a little disaster prep so that they and their family can hunker down then Its a win win IMHO.

I believe that the over reaction is what has kept the numbers from getting out of hand everywhere else.

a reply to: FredT

Can I tell you something funny?

We last went grocery shopping (minus milk and eggs) in November, as we wanted to burn through our canned goods and frozen meats (as they were getting older). So sure enough, we are down to a few weeks of food, minus 3 months of MREs, just in time for this mess to hit. Le sigh.

a reply to: ThouArtGod

Hey ThoughArtGod: Somewhat replying to you, but just dropping this here.....although surely it's already been read by many. Although it's just a wiki, with simple search protocols it can easily be verified:

Deadly second wave

American Expeditionary Force victims of the Spanish flu at U.S. Army Camp Hospital no. 45 in Aix-les-Bains, France, in 1918
The second wave of the 1918 pandemic was much deadlier than the first. The first wave had resembled typical flu epidemics; those most at risk were the sick and elderly, while younger, healthier people recovered easily. By August, when the second wave began in France, Sierra Leone, and the United States,[83] the virus had mutated to a much deadlier form. October 1918 was the deadliest month of the whole pandemic.[84]

This increased severity has been attributed to the circumstances of the First World War.[85] In civilian life, natural selection favors a mild strain. Those who get very ill stay home, and those mildly ill continue with their lives, preferentially spreading the mild strain. In the trenches, natural selection was reversed. Soldiers with a mild strain stayed where they were, while the severely ill were sent on crowded trains to crowded field hospitals, spreading the deadlier virus. The second wave began, and the flu quickly spread around the world again. Consequently, during modern pandemics, health officials pay attention when the virus reaches places with social upheaval (looking for deadlier strains of the virus).[86]

The fact that most of those who recovered from first-wave infections had become immune showed that it must have been the same strain of flu. This was most dramatically illustrated in Copenhagen, which escaped with a combined mortality rate of just 0.29% (0.02% in the first wave and 0.27% in the second wave) because of exposure to the less-lethal first wave.[87] For the rest of the population, the second wave was far more deadly; the most vulnerable people were those like the soldiers in the trenches – young previously healthy adults.[88]

Devastated communities

A chart of deaths in major cities, showing a peak in October and November 1918

Coromandel Hospital Board (New Zealand) advice to influenza sufferers (1918)
Even in areas where mortality was low, so many adults were incapacitated that much of everyday life was hampered. Some communities closed all stores or required customers to leave orders outside. There were reports that healthcare workers could not tend the sick nor the gravediggers bury the dead because they too were ill. Mass graves were dug by steam shovel and bodies buried without coffins in many places.[89]

Several Pacific island territories were particularly hard-hit. The pandemic reached them from New Zealand, which was too slow to implement measures to prevent ships, such as the SS Talune, carrying the flu from leaving its ports. From New Zealand, the flu reached Tonga (killing 8% of the population), Nauru (16%), and Fiji (5%, 9,000 people).[90]

Worst affected was Western Samoa, formerly German Samoa, which had been occupied by New Zealand in 1914. 90% of the population was infected; 30% of adult men, 22% of adult women, and 10% of children died. By contrast, Governor John Martin Poyer prevented the flu from reaching American Samoa by imposing a blockade.[90] The disease spread fastest through the higher social classes among the indigenous peoples, because of the custom of gathering oral tradition from chiefs on their deathbeds; many community elders were infected through this process.[91]

In New Zealand, 8,573 deaths were attributed to the 1918 pandemic influenza, resulting in a total population fatality rate of 0.7%.[92] Māori were 10 times as likely to die as Europeans, because of their poorer and more crowded housing and rural population.[91]

In Ireland, the Spanish flu accounted for 10% of the total deaths in 1918.

Data analysis revealed 6,520 recorded deaths in Savannah-Chatham County, Georgia (population of 83,252) for the three-year period from January 1, 1917, to December 31, 1919. Of these deaths, influenza was specifically listed as the cause of death in 316 cases, representing 5% of all causes of death for the total time period.[93]

Less-affected areas
China experienced a relatively mild flu season in 1918 compared to other areas of the world.[94][95][96][97] This has led to speculation that the 1918 H1N1 strain of flu itself originated from China, and due to that there was greater resistance amongst the Chinese population due to acquired immunity from previous exposure.[98][99] However, the view that China's experience of the flu in 1918 was mild has also been challenged. Though there was no centralised collection of health statistics in the country at the time, some reports from its interior suggest that mortality rates from influenza were perhaps higher in at least a few locations in China in 1918.[100] However, at the very least, there is very little evidence that China as a whole, was seriously affected by the flu - at the very least compared to other countries in the world.[101] Although medical records from China's interior are lacking, there was extensive medical data recorded in Chinese port-cities, such as then British-controlled Hong Kong, Guangzhou, Peking, Harbin and Shanghai. This data was collected by the Chinese Maritime Customs Service.[102] As a whole, accurate data from China's port cities show astonishingly low mortality rates compared to other cities in Asia.[103] For example, the British authorities at Hong Kong and Canton reported a mortality rate from influenza at a rate of 0.25% and 0.32%, much lower than the reported mortality rate of other cities in Asia, such as Calcutta or Bombay, where influenza was much more devastating.[104][105] Similarly, in the city of Shanghai - which had a population of over 2 million in 1918 - there were only 266 recorded deaths from influenza among the Chinese population in 1918.[106] If we extrapolate from the extensive data recorded from Chinese cities, the suggested mortality rate from influenza in China as a whole in 1918 was likely lower than 1% - much lower than the world average (which was around 3-5%).[107] In contrast, Japan and Taiwan had reported a mortality rate from influenza around 0.45% and 0.69% respectively, higher than the mortality rate collected from data in Chinese port cities, such as Hong Kong (0.25%), Canton (0.32%), and Shanghai.[108] Some researchers have proposed that traditional Chinese medicine may have played a role in the low influenza mortality rate in China.[109]

My larger point being, we've no idea what the real numbers are, and most agree upon that. According to "news" there is unprecendented reaction, which fuels all our speculation, and rightly so. But we could do maths, assuming the number we've been given and dates that have been cited are true.....but this above still remains. A virus, if it is even one, will tend to burn itself out after a while. And then in its resurgence, find a more "profitable, suitable, hosting" populous, so then the second wave is even deadlier.

Viral microbes are eerily similar to human life in that they seek a survivable host/environment and the ability to proliferate. That's all we really know, perhaps.
regards and stay safe,
tetra

a reply to: tetra50

Great read, tetra! I wasn’t aware of China’s “dodge” during the Spanish flu. As I’ve stated all along- this has less to do (from my view) with immediate death (virally speaking), and more to do with the overwhelming the system. With such a long incubation period, this one also has a risk of having an explosion in first world countries.

All an over reaction, I’m sure, but worth planning ahead.

originally posted by: ThouArtGod
a reply to: tetra50

Great read, tetra! I wasn’t aware of China’s “dodge” during the Spanish flu. As I’ve stated all along- this has less to do (from my view) with immediate death (virally speaking), and more to do with the overwhelming the system. With such a long incubation period, this one also has a risk of having an explosion in first world countries.

All an over reaction, I’m sure, but worth planning ahead.

I entirely agree with your last, there. Yes. I looked into that bit about China because of SARS and H5N1, and so many "potential" pandemics coming out of there, and also knowing China has been on our alphabet agencies watchlists for so very long, and was just interested vis a vis those points, why it all seems to begin in China....lol. Yah, I get the substandard living circumstances, etc. and poverty, but truly India has a whole lot more of that going on.....and yet, this crap always seems to come out of China. Not that it REALLY DOES, but one has to look at the larger pic in terms of what country bears the brunt of "blame..." because that, in and of itself, has political, global consequences down the line.
regards,
tet

a reply to: tetra50

Have you seen that show with J.K. Simmons about the alternate earth? In this dual universe, the prime earth had a flu that killed 3-5% of the global pop., and I’m sure the blame played a huge part in politics, et al.

Also, note that this just hit India... that’s a truly scary thought.

a reply to: ThouArtGod

Warning: Side, personal note, here.
I Airbb at least one bdrm in my 3 bdrm apt, and just had a young Indian surgical resident here for forty days, following vascular surgeons in my city, as part of her residency. Really, really got close to this young woman, but aside from that stuff: Was concerned, genuinely about her going back home today. But, shrug, her family is there, and higher up in that caste system (as disturbing as caste systems are) so she's prob safer than most in India. Having said all that, yeah, any spread to India is highly concerning, given the overwhelming population and slum living conditions that favor viral transmission.

Did you happen to see the Pandemic series on Netflix this last month? Interesting timing for it, but also interesting watching....
tet

a reply to: tetra50

Caste systems suck, but like the titanic lifeboats, if it gets your family and loved ones safer, I guess it worked that once :/

I haven’t seen it, but I just added it to my watch list. The show I was talking about was “Counterpart”, now on Amazon.

Just thought this article is interesting- posted 6 hours ago...
AP article claiming that the new cases have slowed

Maybe we should worry about disinfo...0

a reply to: ThouArtGod

Pandemic is a series on Netflix, and documentary with real epidemiologist docs, studying "emerging viral threats." That said, it's been known a long time among these research docs that the next pandemic, like Spanish flu, is not an IF but a WHEN.

Having alluded to that long held opinion, I also pay close attention to those investigating the possibility that what is happening in Wuhan is engineered, and perhaps even a cover up for some other biological weaponry at work. As I've said in another thread tonight, we, here, at ATS, spend a great deal of time researching, finding evidence of and discussing ALL the attendant "engineered" aspects of life, including and not limited to our own, as "humans." Surely, there is little debate, once you read all the matrix/paradigm supporting threads located on this board, as to the truth of this here on this site. Then, once you accept all that as possible/evenprobable, well, it's beginning to be "begging the question," so to speak.

I live in a city with a major university with a huge school of Tropical Medicine. This particular dept. of that med school has obvious ties to the US Army, and was just in Zimbabwe right before their last huge outbreak of Ebola.....

So, knowing all that and perceiving it "the way I do," (and I put this in quotes, because I don't really want to argue those points with anyone as it won't change my or their mind, so there is no point), it becomes how to prepare for what will happen despite our most fervent wishes and faith that "man is basically good." LOL. I was going to write a thread on that here, but gave up on even that. So, we can control little, but how we react to what we're given. And just try to do the right thing and hope for the best.

But what occurs to me, in light of all that, is all I read of people preparing and warning others to prepare.....and yet, so many don't seem to realize there are a whole lot of us on food stamps, disability, retired, etc., who CANNOT prepare for any cataclysm as we're literally and totally living day to day..... This, possibly, is the most salient point.....that times such as these, and perhaps engineered crises such as these, are to do away with those of us living just like that.
regards and stay safe always,
tetra

originally posted by: ThouArtGod
Just thought this article is interesting- posted 6 hours ago...
AP article claiming that the new cases have slowed

Maybe we should worry about disinfo...0

Yes, but this is why I posted the info about "second wave" being problematic.

a reply to: tetra50

Hey, Tetra-

I’m headed to bed, as I have to report at 0530, and I want to answer this great post more when I’m at work and have a down minute...

But to touch on one point, regarding prepping. I will say that I have more food and guns and ammo than I could ever use up as a family. If it got that bad, so bad that 6 months of food wasn’t enough for my family, then it’s the end of the world. But aside from that scenario, I buy and store so much so that those who can’t (literally can’t) can have some of mine. It’s partly my religious conviction, and mostly my humanity.

So no worries, many of us have your back. We are just reminding those that can, to.

What is your point?

If you don’t want to care... then why make a thread??

Oh, digital ego.

We all need to bow down to such Spock-like intelligence that anyone who is a bit worried about it worldwide pandemic is an idiot at best and a (probably, politically motivated) “fear monger”!!

Well, be “correct” and “smarter” or “superior” to the “idiots who think we are all gonna die” (your contex, or, at least lame lingual usage) but being informed is *not* anything like what you characterize in your OP.

The members “downplaying” this are incredible!

First off, if it ain’t this bat virus it will be another one.

Some (probably leftist or communist) said that knowledge is power.

Erm, yeah. You go man! You are sooooooooooo smart. And the rest of us are sooooooooooooooooov stupid!

S+F for the FUD!! Disinformation has its place in the world... kinda like Coronavirus, huh!??



OS - SHE loves me! I gave you star 23, and, flag 17!! Both prime numbers but beyond what you care about!

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Hey!

I’m very confused... are you talking to me? I’m not downplaying anything- if anything, I think the ChiComs are. And if it isn’t this pandemic, it will be another.

I’m not understanding if you are being sarcastic, misread me, or are mad at me about something...

???

originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
What is your point?

If you don’t want to care... then why make a thread??

Oh, digital ego.

We all need to bow down to such Spock-like intelligence that anyone who is a bit worried about it worldwide pandemic is an idiot at best and a (probably, politically motivated) “fear monger”!!

Well, be “correct” and “smarter” or “superior” to the “idiots who think we are all gonna die” (your contex, or, at least lame lingual usage) but being informed is *not* anything like what you characterize in your OP.

The members “downplaying” this are incredible!

First off, if it ain’t this bat virus it will be another one.

Some (probably leftist or communist) said that knowledge is power.

Erm, yeah. You go man! You are sooooooooooo smart. And the rest of us are sooooooooooooooooov stupid!

S+F for the FUD!! Disinformation has its place in the world... kinda like Coronavirus, huh!??

OS - SHE loves me! I gave you star 23, and, flag 17!! Both prime numbers but beyond what you care about!

Hey yourscreennamebeingtoolongformetotype: so sorry about my lack of ability there.
But what are you on about exactly? LOL. You mentioned ego, and then stars and flags and the "you're so smart thingie..." IMH experience, when one replies out of ego and brings up ego, it's probably affecting you in all the wrong ways, currently. I'm kind of thinking you may have an epiphany tomorrow about what you just posted there. Why attack the poster?
regards and stay safe,
tet