We are all going to die! Over-reaction, or politically influenced myopia? A few points about Wu Flu

a reply to: ketsuko
How does cytokine storm fit into this overwhelming?
Aren't most dying from secondary conditions, like kidney failure and pneumonia, not this novel "cold"?????

a reply to: Kenzo

To be clear, this isn't a knock on China, nor the people there. I gave them the benefit of the doubt as far as medical readiness, but asserted that this was not the impression that I got from various online publications. The journals are saying that this is more likely representative of the fact that the populace as a whole is fairly young and healthy, hence the lesser need for certain kinds of care.

Central planning, amiright ¯_(ツ)_/¯

a reply to: Mikemp44

What I find MOST interesting is how close it resembles the whole Resident Evil narrative (films) of "The world is going to end no matter what, but we can control it and save humanity by ushering it in on our terms. Kill 95% of the population and let the rest of us elites repopulate the world after it heals in our image."

Exactly what I was thinking about as I read the OP. I would not put it past some corporate psychos to try and make life imitate art. Conspiracies aside though...

We may simply have a patient zero who actually worked in the lab that was playing around with this virus. That's something China would cover up as fast as fast as possible, and by any means necessary.

I believe this is just an open-air clinical trial on a bio-weapon that got released.

Last reports that I've read, they are now speaking on the hopes of this virus attenuating and possibly helping mankinds resistance to corona/mersa/sars strains.

I dont believe that this will help mankind at all, in fact I think it's just a convenient way to stir panic, increase/re-affirm American dependency on Chinese products, and make a boatload of cash for big pharma.

It also creates political challenges for our President, as the democrats have no platforms worth a vote, and would love to find something that Trump mismanages to their chagrin.

All in all, the only thing we can do is prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

And damn sure remember, no government is going to help you, or worry about it citizens best interests or health.

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

I'm sorry... What are you asking?

2nd Line

a reply to: Klassified

If it is accidental, I lean towards wildlife escaping. If it was purposeful, I would wonder why they did such a poor way to release it, unless they are tracking it for a wave 2. I am also sure that if it was purposeful, we should be wary of MAD games.

Why on earth would china release a stink bomb on its own people when its economy is slowing? And now it is affecting production and jepordizing a lot of the worlds JIT supply chains????

That theory makes no sense.
And we all carried antidotes to anthrax and other nasty stuff when deployed overseas. And got annual flu shots. And what are flu shots? Dead antibodies. Easily reproduced from any strain of cold/flu. There is no way a government would create something without an antidote. You gotta protect the chosen ones ya know.

a reply to: angelchemuel

Rubbish...an animal escaping? Have you seen a level 4 biosecurity building?


www.hpac.com...

a reply to: ThouArtGod

a reply to: lakenheath24

Well, brother/sister in arms, I thought I made it clear as to why they would eliminate their own.

1) They have too many aging males

2) It will also impact the rest of the world

3) they have a centralized economy whereby they think in much longer terms than Western nations

4) Their economy is insulated by their ownership of U.S. debt

All of that said, I am not saying they did it on purpose, I'm just saying that there is a higher reward for them in the long term than zero.

a reply to: lakenheath24

Impressive stuff, indeed! But that said, there are many ways for this to have escaped, and it can include the fact that maybe they didn't know about the virus when it did?

I'm not tied to this theory, but merely granting it credence as it fits with the virus both being engineered, and coming from the market. If you can tie that bow better than I can, please have at it! I would be genuinely interested.

Well as bad as it sounds, if that were the case in the U.S. Other than life insurance companies going belly up, think of the money saved on Social Security, and retirement payouts.

Im an ORF. And thanks for your service. I liked your OP, i just think there is too much speculation right now.


1. China is setting records with its automation and it has a horrible human right record. There are 3 billion people..plenty to backfill. And google elder abuse in China......ageing males? Not a problem.

ifr.org...

2. Impact the world how? Surely they would have started this in Africa, or North Korea...why would you disruptyour own economy when you could blow up the Wests supply chain?

3. They are 3000 years old and never been a superpower. Exactly when are they gonna spring their genius on the world? If it wasnt for intellectual theft, and counter feiting...they would have nothing.

4. Try as they might....China cannot crack the US dollar hedge.ong as the global reserve currrency. Now this isnt my area, so I wont pretend to know finance, but i fail to see what owning 1% of our debt has any affect.

wolfstreet.com...

originally posted by: ThouArtGod
a reply to: lakenheath24

Well, brother/sister in arms, I thought I made it clear as to why they would eliminate their own.

1) They have too many aging males

2) It will also impact the rest of the world

3) they have a centralized economy whereby they think in much longer terms than Western nations

4) Their economy is insulated by their ownership of U.S. debt

All of that said, I am not saying they did it on purpose, I'm just saying that there is a higher reward for them in the long term than zero.

originally posted by: 38181
Well as bad as it sounds, if that were the case in the U.S. Other than life insurance companies going belly up, think of the money saved on Social Security, and retirement payouts.

I mean, it sounds bad, but it really is the truth. Here in the U.S., if we had even a 50% infection rate, with a 20% death rate (their numbers, not mine), and it affected the mostly urban 50+ crowd (108M) at the standard 70% rate, then we are talking about 321M (population U.S.), divided by 2 (160M), multiplied by .20 (death rate- 64M), @ 70% (age grouping), then we arrive at 45M, or 41.66% of the over 50 crowd. If infection rates reached 60%, you can plan accordingly.

If this disproportionately impacted urban, suburban, over 50 demos, then a real pandemic would free the U.S. of nearly half it's Social Security payouts (1/3 of our budget), and nearly 40% of our medicaid/Medicare budget (1/3 of our budget), while simultaneously transferring some wealth to younger generations.

A neutral virus has none of these benefits, but a virus that affects a larger swath of that age demo would be a net boon to the economies. I told my father-in-law this, and he was not impressed with my math.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Something to think about logically and consider when you see the numbers.

China has admitted they only have a limited number of test kits and only do a limited number of tests per day. It controls the numbers they release to the rest of the world.

What it also does is limit who gets tested. Likely they are patients sick enough to need the hospital, meaning they are quite sick already. So that will skew your numbers of death to be a worse ratio than it might otherwise be if you could actually test everyone.

This is a good point. Skewing to lower rates of infected and higher kill rate.

I hate that I can't find the source for this now, but it was a good source, so take it with a grain of NaCl. If I can find the source and link, I'll add it.Apparently, China has now switched their reporting of "confirmed cases" to be outside of jormal reporting guidelines. Now only those who test positive for nCoV and confirmed pneumonia will be counted as a confirmed case.

originally posted by: ThouArtGod
a reply to: Klassified

If it is accidental, I lean towards wildlife escaping. If it was purposeful, I would wonder why they did such a poor way to release it, unless they are tracking it for a wave 2. I am also sure that if it was purposeful, we should be wary of MAD games.

All reasonable possibilities, and while we are speculating, we should include the possibility that it is an attack on China from the inside by someone on the outside. China has more frenemy's than friends.

originally posted by: lakenheath24
Rubbish...an animal escaping? Have you seen a level 4 biosecurity building?


www.hpac.com...

With regard to Boston there's some relevant info below about Tularemia outbreaks and the CDC Refusal of Rapid Response (amidst claims of indifference, underreporting and secrecy) - apparently the outbreaks have "popped the balloon of bloated and distorted safety claims about the biodefense program" 

Don't count on the US Centers for Disease Control (CDC) to tell the public about biological weapons accidents. CDC's refusal to divulge information about the Boston University tularemia incidents will come as cold comfort for the tens of millions in the US who live close to (proposed) biological weapons labs..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thats a touch disconcerting.

a reply to: karl 12

If you look on the internet on of Coronavirus there a mentions that some DNA are more in danger than others. Think of it like unconfirmed rumor:

SARS is more infectious against Oriental DNA and South American DNA than European DNA.
MERS is more infectious against Arab DNA and African DNA.

The question is will this virus follow SARS or will the changes make it more equally dangerous for all DNA types.

This Coronavirus have been inserted with 4 HIV properties according to Indian Scientist. Was the paper pulled back because China got pissed that proof against their narrative was shown? You can read the paper yourself.

The withdrawal:
www.biorxiv.org...

The paper:
www.biorxiv.org...

And China is using HIV treatments on this coronavirus "in trials"
www.theguardian.com...

pShuttle vector found in the virus.
yournews.com...

During this process, of course, the pShuttle leaves behind unique code, a “fingerprint” of the genetic modification. It is this fingerprint that has now been identified in the coronavirus.

As revealed by genomics researcher James Lyons-Weiler in this bombshell analysis article, the pShuttle genetic code is found in the coronavirus that’s circulating in the wild.

This is proof that the virus has been engineered by human scientists.

“IPAK researchers found a sequence similarity between a pShuttle-SN recombination vector sequence and INS1378,” writes Lyons-Weiler for IPAK:

A Jan. 27 2020, study by 5 Greek scientists analyzed the genetic relationships of 2019-nCoV and found that “the new coronavirus provides a new lineage for almost half of its genome, with no close genetic relationships to other viruses within the subgenus of sarbecovirus,” and has an unusual middle segment never seen before in any coronavirus. All this indicates that 2019-nCoV is a brand-new type of coronavirus. The study’s authors rejected the original hypothesis that 2019-nCoV originated from random natural mutations between different coronaviruses.

If you have not seen it then I would recommend you to look at below video.
The HighWire with Del Bigtree
BREAKING: SOURCE OF CORONAVIRUS REVEALED?

NVM

originally posted by: ketsuko
The real risk is that this thing hits in a concentrated wave that overwhelms, If that happens, then it doesn't need to be a super scary, bio weapon or anything else in order to cause serious disruption. It just has to cause widespread incapacitation for prolonged amounts of time and overwhelm medical infrastructure.

The other issue in my mind is that the garden-variety flu is running rampant right now in the Northeast.

After fighting that, does the human body respond with a weakened immune response because it's been beaten up and run-down, or is it better able to fight this strain of flu since it "knows" how to manufacture an appropriate immune response?

What I can say is that if you visit any number of employers both large & small in the Northeast, the number of people not working because they're ill with the current flu is really large.

Are they more at risk of contracting the Wu-Flu? And if so, will they be hit harder because their immune systems are already compromised?

Are there any Dr's on ATS that can weigh in with an opinion?