Should Alabama Megachurch be able to hire it's own Police?

www.npr.org...

Critics say the mega-church already has private security and under the new law it would gain state authority that could be abused if officers are answerable only to church officials.

Someone explain to me why this church would need an actual police force vs. the security they already have.
I know some schools have this, but are churches different?
Is this the start of a slippery slope? What happens when a person in Church with power abuses kids, does the "church police" arrest them?
What if the church is responsible for their paycheck etc.. Don't like it..

these are churches of, and about,money......nothing more

I wonder if the church believes it can make up it's own laws outside of existing laws and have this force enforce them.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I don't see why not. The 2nd Amendment allow for a regulated militia. Walmart has their own police/security.

What happens when a person in Church with power abuses kids, does the "church police" arrest them?

Having security or a private police force to enforce laws and rules is not the same as having your justice system and courts.

I don't like the idea either but this is America and I think they should have the right to do whatever they please with their security.

This is why I hate the term ‘seperatukn of church and state’. If you truly believe that, then the state cannot stop this.

The fear of the chirchbnot arresting church officials, I mean that would be like kiddybporn on a politician’s lap top that never sees the light of day, or a church member issues personal email to do business and refuses to turn it over and thy law would let them go....these things would never happen with government law enforcement, so shouldn’t we give the church the same power?

I came in here to argue of course they can hire security, but I see its for an actual police force? That just seems wrong, and apparently others thought so too the last time this was tried.

A similar measure, first proposed four years ago, was dropped in 2017 after opponents argued that it grants government power to a religious institution in violation of the Establishment Clause.

originally posted by: seaswine
I don't like the idea either but this is America and I think they should have the right to do whatever they please with their security.

sooooooooooooooooooooooo... If a Muslim church is afforded the same. Just think about it.

An American woman accidentally walks on a Muslims Church's property and they are dressed in a short skirt. That is against their law and they have their own police force (very different than security)... Very slippery slope my friend.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
Someone explain to me why this church would need an actual police force vs. the security they already have.

When you become so rich that the normal security is not enough to protect your assets, naturally you look to consign more help. And you can afford it.

This church has too much money, that's it.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I suppose that is a fair point. Maybe leave it up to the specific municipalities to take a vote on it?

Maybe TheRedneck will show here. He might have some insight into the thoughts of the people behind this effort in that state.

originally posted by: Duderino

originally posted by: JAGStorm
Someone explain to me why this church would need an actual police force vs. the security they already have.

When you become so rich that the normal security is not enough to protect your assets, naturally you look to consign more help. And you can afford it.

This church has too much money, that's it.

exactly, these mega churches have more money than they know what to do with. Got to find those tax write-offs somewhere..

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: seaswine
I don't like the idea either but this is America and I think they should have the right to do whatever they please with their security.

sooooooooooooooooooooooo... If a Muslim church is afforded the same. Just think about it.

An American woman accidentally walks on a Muslims Church's property and they are dressed in a short skirt. That is against their law and they have their own police force (very different than security)... Very slippery slope my friend.

No. Like I said, having private police is not the same as having your own justice system and courts. Religious institutions don't have the right to violate a person's civil rights, even if they have police to protect their own religious and constitutional rights.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I guess it depends.

What laws are they enforcing? Are they the same laws as the local jurisdiction, or different?

Presumably they would have powers of arrest, so is due process conducted in the same way as the local jurisdiction? In other words, following an arrest does the local District Attorney get involved to formally press charges in the municipality? Do all other local, state and federal protections apply, such as Miranda and the like?

In principle, I don't think there should be an issue with this if they are following all the same rules and laws of the district they reside in. The only difference would be, they would be in control of how their police force operates and responds as opposed to the local municipality. This, in theory, would promote a more focused police effort.

In fact, this is nothing new. There is already precedent for this.

Could this go awry? Absolutely it could...and it already has! Take Colorado City, Arizona, as an example. (Think: Warren Jeffs). Colorado City was formed as an exclusive Fundamentalist Latter Day Saint's (Mormon) community, on the border between AZ and UT, complete with their own police force. The state police of both AZ and UT have had to intervene numerous times over egregious abuses of the law by the police in Colorado City. They knowingly overlooked the predatory acts of their overlord, Warren Jeffs and his minions, for decades.

However, in principle, providing the same county, state and federal laws are being observed in a transparent way, then there shouldn't be an issue. (As long as no one ever forgets what happened in Colorado City!).

a reply to: JAGStorm

The article linked wasn't very helpful in answering questions on why they want this. As far as I know, security guards are not restricted from carrying weapons, if that's what they felt was needed. Do they just want people who have been through police academy training? I still don't understand.

Here's a better link with an explanation...

In a statement on the approval, Briarwood said that despite having a great relationship with local law enforcement agencies, establishing a private police force had become necessary because the state was unable to provide adequate security for the approximately 2,000 students and faculty of Briarwood Christian School located on two campuses in unincorporated Jefferson and Shelby County due to budget cuts.

“Briarwood also recognizes the state budgetary issues identified by the Emergency Task Force on School Safety and Security which coupled with the demand for APOST certified qualified first responders creates stress on our law enforcement departments. This can and does lead to full-time staffing issues for both campus locations,” the church said.

“Alabama Code 16-22 allows certain educational institutions to appoint and employ one or more suitable persons to act as police officers to keep off intruders and prevent trespass upon the institution property. The institutions currently provided the protection under this statute include a number that have less students than does Briarwood Christian School. We are grateful to the governor and our elected officials for approving our request to be added to the existing Alabama Code 16-22,” the church added.

www.christianpost.com...

The other question would be, if they are established as a police force are they then able to receive federal or state funding?

This, is where you'd get into Church and State boundary issues.

Slippery slope -- is where I'm at.

Otherwise it seems reasonable.

As long as public money doesn't end up paying for it.

Do employees of a church have to pay taxes?

originally posted by: Deetermined
Here's a better link with an explanation...

In a statement on the approval, Briarwood said that despite having a great relationship with local law enforcement agencies, establishing a private police force had become necessary because the state was unable to provide adequate security for the approximately 2,000 students and faculty of Briarwood Christian School located on two campuses in unincorporated Jefferson and Shelby County due to budget cuts.

“Briarwood also recognizes the state budgetary issues identified by the Emergency Task Force on School Safety and Security which coupled with the demand for APOST certified qualified first responders creates stress on our law enforcement departments. This can and does lead to full-time staffing issues for both campus locations,” the church said.

“Alabama Code 16-22 allows certain educational institutions to appoint and employ one or more suitable persons to act as police officers to keep off intruders and prevent trespass upon the institution property. The institutions currently provided the protection under this statute include a number that have less students than does Briarwood Christian School. We are grateful to the governor and our elected officials for approving our request to be added to the existing Alabama Code 16-22,” the church added.

www.christianpost.com...

Thanks for that link. Seems to clear things up a bit.

I wonder if they could save money by paying the salaries of actual police to be hired to work at the church versus forming their own. Maybe they plan on going cheap with the paychecks.

I suspect they want control.

edit:

Assuming the law allows for it.