Religion shouldn't exist

What do you really believe in? Something something here ? Or I don't know. The last 57 years mankind has really come far. In Jesus s time I think there were 8 million people. The birth of civilization and humanity, the thing that guided so many.

There are I think 1.8 billion people that are Christians or Catholic. The other day late at night I saw 147 people logged into this site. Atheists act like vandals or graffiti inappropriate symbols on other people's beliefs. Religion gives people hope salvation. Can't you just be okay with that, too each his own.

I spent years sick. I heard things like when you look at a sunset and just know. I was surrounded by phantoms of peers I grew up with. Heard voices. One person served in the military said I been over to Iraq we try to help those people. There religion doesn't make sense. I personally never read the Koran. Other people s voices in community, different from my own.

I know not a lot of people talk openly about religion . Are you a criminal robbing nice people or throwing a tempratantrum. The modern day atheist, drawing pen** * on paintings. Just meditate, let it be let it be let it be.

a reply to: Gogmagog

Do I feel that no one should? Am I the person you have decided that I am?

Just because you believe in something with all your heart and mind does not make it real............

If you were born in India you would probably be Hindu, Pakistan a Muslim, Tibet a Buddhist......whose god is more real?

If you believe in your god and say every other god does not exist then you only believe in one more god than me

a reply to: JonU2

Nice, so, do you believe there is a god that has a plan for us?

Hmmmmm.... tricky question. Do I believe in a god? I believe in one God. Do I believe that God has a plan for us? I believe that our creation and being is part of a plan... an order of things... that we are incapable of fully understanding.

If so, why do you pray?

For myself -- for inspiration, for understanding, for wisdom.

Surely that plan is already in motion......

Yup. As I already stated.

a reply to: JonU2

The gods are those without which we cannot live; Earth, Sky, Ocean, Sun.
I can't list them all, Biologists and other scientists have bigger lists.
I'm just a layman. Even if I don't know everything about the Biosphere,
I still live here; and yes, I will also die here.

originally posted by: JonU2
a reply to: Boadicea

No that's where you are completely wrong. Atheists are just saying there is no god and the lack of proof of one backs them up.

People who say there IS a god have no proof to back them up.

It is not about belief, it's about facts.

Nope. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. However, belief in the absence of evidence is just that -- beliefs.

a reply to: Gogmagog

This is the time of choosing. Sides are being assembled and counted.
This is not a war where one may choose neutrality. Those that teeter upon fences will fall, on one side or the other.

I was in a church once when the country was on the verge of a premeditated, unprovoked invasion of another country. Someone in the congregation picked this song to be sung, right after Onward Christian Soldier.

Oh the irony! Russel wrote that song as a protest against another war, Mexican-American.

Please, can we just refrain from holy wars? Some of us have been there, done that.

originally posted by: JonU2
a reply to: Gogmagog

Do I feel that no one should? Am I the person you have decided that I am?

Just because you believe in something with all your heart and mind does not make it real............

If you were born in India you would probably be Hindu, Pakistan a Muslim, Tibet a Buddhist......whose god is more real?

If you believe in your god and say every other god does not exist then you only believe in one more god than me

My friend, with compassion I can only say that it is your thread title that states that 'Religion shouldn't exist'.
These are not words that I put upon you unwillingly, but the words with which you introduced your topic.

Will you now deny them? Or turn them aside, saying that they were misplaced or misunderstood?

a reply to: Nothin

Don't nobody know nothin?

Know is a bit strong doncha think?
Moderately acquainted,
but not by sight.

Hey there Nothin

originally posted by: JonU2
a reply to: rickymouse

Saying there is no god is immature? I cannot believe you said that to a 57 year old. In your mind am I suddenly immature in age or spiritual wisdom or what?

Saying there IS a god is pretty closed minded (akin to a horse wearing blinkers or blinders).

I really don't care what anybody wished to believe but I would like to see this planet devoid of all religion so that people can just be.........

When I said immature, I was not talking about you. Immature in my post referred to saying that something does not exist because we have not figured out what it is or as humans we cannot comprehend that the earth and the universe can have some sort of consciousness. It is too early for me to say that I am confident that this entity is not real. I am not even sure that this reality is real, it could be an illusion of reality that is so advanced we cannot comprehend we are in it. The creator of this reality would be the authors of the program. I am sixty three, I never have been religious and have gone to many churches over the years to check them out and see how the people are. Most times there are good honest people going to those churches, people I feel comfortable around. Every church seems to have a few people who use the church to benefit themselves, that is actually normal, but you do not condemn the majority for the actions of a few of the members.

I try not to jump to conclusions. I have always been sort of agnostic but because I have witnessed some weird things that can't be explained by science so far, I now keep an open mind tending to lean towards there being something more than is explained by what science is out there. The thing is there is lots of information and research on the link between people, with millions of dollars being spent trying to find how to control the link over the last century by many countries. So I am thinking that this link and the corresponding collective consciousness is what people see as god. Now there is a link between the people who love to trick others and steal, that would be Satan's path. I do not believe much in us going to heaven though, I wouldn't know anyone there anyway.

I would rather be honest and have decent integrity than being dishonest myself, so I align myself with others like that, around here there are lots of Christians who have the values I like. So even though I have a different interpretation of what god is, I still admit I believe in this being. I also am a member of a pagan site, there are lots of good people that post on that site. Of course, there are some bad people there just like there are everywhere.

I do not immediately consider overpowering jerks bad, sometimes you find they are that way because they are afraid of being railroaded so put up a strong defense mode...others are just jerks. I see both kind in business owners all the time, sometimes you just have to break the ice and they mellow out and their personality does a one eighty.

a reply to: rickymouse

Yes, there are a lot of people who perform bad science, and for the sake of all further arguments, we should ignore bad science when we are referring to science in general. I’m not referring to charlatans.

If you want to say you believe in a god, you may need to define that god as best as you can. But if you believe in the supernatural, such as any entity that may be referred to as a god, you are religious by definition. You don’t get to change definitions to suit you.

Fairies, by definition are magical creatures of myth. By redefining them as bugs, or some other mundane animal that was/is mistaken for a fairy, you are simply side stepping the original argument. Now can we stay on track without you running around the rosebush?

a reply to: pthena

Hey Pthena

Indeed: the word 'know', in a FR&T forum?


Is there anything: that we could potentially all 'know'?
Don't ask me. Don't know.

originally posted by: JonU2
a reply to: gortex

Disagree, in that we all have control over ourselves. We're all individuals ("I'm not"...shhhhh)

I agree we're all individuals and I would argue that the plethora of religions and even lack of religion would indicate that, but you seem to have a hard time wrapping your head around the idea that different people go different ways.

I like the OP buti am a little unimpressed by the content. Yes i gave this thread a flag because this is an item that needs some serious discussion. I work now and then with Muslim scientists, and Christian scientists, but mostly with scientists like myself who have no sutch faith. If i were to find a link it would lie somewhere between Buhddism and Luke Sywalker's use of 'the force'. Yes the force is there it is real, and you can tap it for good or evil, seems to me that George Lukas may have got it right,but no-one was listening because they were too wrapped up in the hollywood fantasy of the event. And let us not question the very literal re-writing of history sutch as the mandela effect, pff i saw the very first Star Wars in Marble Arch and i can assure you, C-3PO's legs were ALL GOLD,so let's be straight on that one

But my research also allows for the timeshifting of electrons, and thereby electronic information also....this happaned i think, with T.T.Brown, he did not include time-shifting of electrons in his analysis, good as it was...this IS after all the first person to find a link between gravity and voltage, and i have re-created his original experiments and they prove his theory 100%.... but enough rambling from me, back to this amazing thread.......

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Gogmagog

This is the time of choosing. Sides are being assembled and counted.
This is not a war where one may choose neutrality. Those that teeter upon fences will fall, on one side or the other.

I was in a church once when the country was on the verge of a premeditated, unprovoked invasion of another country. Someone in the congregation picked this song to be sung, right after Onward Christian Soldier.

Oh the irony! Russel wrote that song as a protest against another war, Mexican-American.

Please, can we just refrain from holy wars? Some of us have been there, done that.

In the brave new world we will communicate through the use of secondhand videos.
Our tongues will be silenced.



The war has already begun.
Whoes side are you on.

originally posted by: JonU2
a reply to: JDmOKI

Not preaching (first post here), don't care what you believe...............

It seems very much you care what people believe
Funny how the narative changes when your hypocrisy is exposed

I believe in God, Jesus and the Spirit, sorry it makes you feel so bad inside, maybe you should shoot all us christians so we don’t offend you with our beliefs? It happens every so often so feel free
That should make you happy again

a reply to: Gogmagog

Back after the Cuban missile crisis of 1962, pool making companies converted to building bomb shelters ( fallout shelters ). Two of our neighbors had them built.

We lived within the dead zone of a prime military target. My brother asked my dad once, "The ____'s have a bomb shelter, the _____'s are getting a bomb shelter. What will we do if the a-bombs drop?"

My dad, who was a Marine, said "We'll die."

My brother said, "Oh, okay." then went back to watching the pool company dig a hole in the neighbor's driveway.

Whose side? The side of collateral damage I suppose. Bystanders die just as easily as combatants and usually in greater numbers.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Gogmagog

Back after the Cuban missile crisis of 1962, pool making companies converted to building bomb shelters ( fallout shelters ). Two of our neighbors had them built.

We lived within the dead zone of a prime military target. My brother asked my dad once, "The ____'s have a bomb shelter, the _____'s are getting a bomb shelter. What will we do if the a-bombs drop?"

My dad, who was a Marine, said "We'll die."

My brother said, "Oh, okay." then went back to watching the pool company dig a hole in the neighbor's driveway.

Whose side? The side of collateral damage I suppose. Bystanders die just as easily as combatants and probably more often.

Thank you for you charming reminiscence.

The war lies in the spiritual realm. The collateral damage will be counted in souls.

There is a long standing, prevalent and increasing occult conspiracy that grows stronger every day. Bless you for your reply, but the sides are being drawn and the battlefield currently resides upon the checker board squares of the internet, not in the bunkers of yesteryear.

a reply to: JonU2

Just because you use a toilet everyday does not make you a master plumber. The same thing is true about religion. The idea of God is much bigger and more complex than the way most atheists think about God.

Most people think of God in two ways based on philosophical materialism or realism. With philosophical materialism as a belief system, either God is an imaginary friend or someone you would be able to meet in reality. People then argue if God is an imaginary friend then he is irrelevant since he isn’t real. And if God is a person, introduce me to him and have him demonstrate his powers. So if God can’t be experienced in reality as a person, then God doesn’t exist.

This way of looking at God as an object in reality, or a figment of the imagination, requires the acceptance of the assumption philosophical materialism as an absolute fact. The thing is science has shown philosophical materialism is a delusional fantasy and just another belief system or dogma. Contrary to the chagrin of the philosophical materialists, we live in a spiritual Universe where consciousness exists and participates in changing reality through observation.

Since philosophical materialism is a fairy tale, we need a more sophisticated way of looking at and understanding the nature of God. I've been leaning toward Apophatic theology lately:

Apophatic Theology

With this way of thinking, God is not an object person to experience in reality. God is manifested in the way the Holy Trinity is interpreted. With this way of thinking about God, God is perfect, complete, desiring nothing, lacking nothing, and needing nothing. God is absolute perfection and unity and beyond distinctions created through the use of language. This is a very different way of thinking about God than as an imaginary friend or someone you meet in person. Since God is absolute unity, complete, and perfect God cannot be a creature with limitations.

With the Apophatic way of thinking, "the essence of God is completely unknowable; mankind can know God only through His energies". So we can only know God through our experiences as an indirect way of seeing fragments or glimpses of the greatness that is God's infinite perfection.

"Apophatic theology, also known as negative theology,[1] is a form of theological thinking and religious practice which attempts to approach God, the Divine, by negation, to speak only in terms of what may not be said about the perfect goodness that is God"

"Dionysius describes the kataphatic or affirmative way to the divine as the "way of speech": that we can come to some understanding of the Transcendent by attributing all the perfections of the created order to God as its source. In this sense, we can say "God is Love", "God is Beauty", "God is Good". The apophatic or negative way stresses God's absolute transcendence and unknowability in such a way that we cannot say anything about the divine essence because God is so totally beyond being. The dual concept of the immanence and transcendence of God can help us to understand the simultaneous truth of both "ways" to God: at the same time as God is immanent, God is also transcendent. At the same time as God is knowable, God is also unknowable. God cannot be thought of as one or the other only"

"[t]hat which is infinite is known only to itself. This it is which gives some notion of God, while yet beyond all our conceptions – our very incapacity of fully grasping Him affords us the idea of what He really is. He is presented to our minds in His transcendent greatness, as at once known and unknown.[49]"

Most philosophical materialists believe there is no purpose to the Universe. Most philosophical materialists believe there is no purpose to evolution. With this way of thinking the philosophical materialists think the Universe is nothing but meaningless patterns of energy with no one pattern of energy having more meaning than any other.

For the philosophical materialists evolution has no purpose. Evolution is the result of essentially random events with no outside organizing agent or influence. For the philosophical materialists consciousness doesn't really exist. Each of us is just a machine carrying out the laws of physics. And consciousness is just a delusional side effect of activity of the brain. And many philosophical materialists are researching the problem of consciousness so to finally prove consciousness does not exist. And anytime someone says consciousness doesn't exist immediately punch them as hard as you can right in the nose.

However, in contrast to the way the philosophical materialists think about reality, this idea that God is both immanence and transcendence is fascinating to appreciate. Since God is absolute perfection and complete, the Universe was not created out of need and desire but an abundance flowing out of God. This abundance has no where else to go but to flow back to the absolute unity that is God.

We are the Universe's way of experiencing itself. We are made of the very stuff we are experiencing. The purpose of Universe is to support evolution. The purpose of evolution is to create ever greater forms of consciousness capable of appreciating the unity that is God. We are all drawn to the unity that is God. We experience slivers of God's infinite beauty and perfection when we experience greatness in our appreciation of beauty and performance in ourselves and others. In the end, all the energy of the Universe conscious and unconscious, all flows back to experience unity with the infinite perfection that is God completing a kind of circuit of reality.

The trinity can be defined as three aspects. Out of the nameless void God spoke and created light and all the forms. All forms are the words of God. The way nature behaves in patterns represented by mathematics are also the words of God. The second aspect of the trinity is the idea God is the movement of energy through all the forms. The power of God compels you. There are two principles in the Universe. One principle towards separation away from God. And another principle of energy flowing to organization, order, and unity with God. And the third aspect of the trinity is conscious awareness of the other two aspects of the trinity along with two principles of behavior. With this interpretation of the trinity we have immanence and transcendence.

As I said experiencing God's immanence and transcendence is fascinating to appreciate. Although nature behaves in patterns represented by mathematics, there is also divergence. The wave-like nature of reality means everything is connected to everything else like a giant blob of jello. Data outliers and experimental errors abound. Rogue waves of energy converge on every level of reality bubbling up creating unimaginable possibilities in nature. Nature is both order and chaos manifesting itself in a dance of jello.

And through the dance of jello, conscious observers change the way reality is realized. The Universe may operate according to certain patterns of behaviors represented with the language of mathematics but consciousness is also ripping through he Universe creating paths of unimaginable possibilities. All for the purpose of allowing consciousness to appreciate bigger pieces of the greatness that is God's perfection and unity with everything.

a reply to: JonU2

What I think is funny it's the atheist's who whine and complain how they are smarter then those who follow a religion,all that shows is they want to be special,has nothing to do with intelligence,otherwise they would keep mouth shut and show results,just like a Vegan,how do you know if someone is a Vegan? they will tell you

originally posted by: JonU2
a reply to: GreenGunther

It does take everything into account but I didn't have time to write a complete history. My main point is that, indoctrination aside, I went through the generational expectation that I would believe this rubbish.

Throughout the world, I cannot understand why so many people cling onto these beliefs.

That’s where my post comes in. They lay the foundation when they’re kids.
Almost impossible to get it out of them after that.
It also creates a fertile breeding ground for other spiritual forms of bs.