Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

originally posted by: Baablacksheep
a reply to: KilgoreTrout


Thanks KT, am still pondering Mr Day. You have interesting thoughts there.

I was fortunate enough, once, to meet a giant who was kind enough to tell me that it is okay to stand on the shoulder's of giants.

My thoughts are strongly informed by Professor Steven Mithen and his The Prehistory of the Mind. It was he that coined the term "cognitive fluidity", I've simply applied it to the consideration of situations, such as a "crisis" (to borrow from the Animal Magnetists), where that flow may be subject to regulatory changes, and how that may relate to the Law of Requisite Variety.

I would guess that a big part of who Day is as a person, physiologically as well as psychologically, is tied up in memories to that piece of land, and of his parents, and possibly their parents too. We say things are in people genes, but perhaps what we should be saying is that they are in our matter.

originally posted by: Sublant

....TTSA have gotten themselves/their message (whatever that is) onto NYT, WaPo, FoxNews and many other news outlets and mediums. In my opinion, more than anyone else ever before.

TTSA have made a lot of mistakes and I find it troubling that after two years, I still don't know what their endgame is. But sometimes, especially here on ATS, the critique goes overboard. They haven't done enough? Well, they've done more - messaging wise - than anyone ever before.

Did TTSA get themselves into the NYT or was that the work of Ralph Blumenthal, Helen Cooper and Leslie Kean?

I mean would you buy "TTSA disclosure" after hearing their pitch?

"Hey we have these UFO videos and a chain of custody (CoC) but you can't see it. Well George (our archivist who doesn't work for us by the way) has kept back a document or two under his sofa...I know this government release form doesn't quite look right and hasn't been filled in properly. Yeh it does say not for public release..pfft. But that's how we like to roll. We don't need to get it all right, right now. That Greenwall fella is just nitpicking. We are selling ya tha real deal here man! Don't cha know a good thing when ya see it?

....Oh never mind it just says entertainment on the company filings. We just said that because we can't put UFOs on there or even science or aerospace. Stop nitpicking. Start to real deal with it!

...No Lue was head of AATIP. George has a document ("George lift up that sofa again!") from Harry Reid. I know he didn't reveal it last year. He likes to keep a hold of a CoC once he's got his hands on it. But now....Well Ok it doesn't say he was head of AATIP but you're all nitpicking again. Real deal don't cha know!!!

...No AATIP was very successful...the government thought highly of it. But obviously us spooks have to leave the government so we can go back to the government to remind them of how successful it was. In the government you can't speak to the government because you are the government.. Now we aren't in the government we can go and knock on their doors and say "this was great". We couldn't do that before don't cha know?

.. These mysterious tic-tacs they are really a problem...we don't know what they are. So everything you've ever believed before is bunk. Forget the inconvenient details. This is real disclosure don't cha know!"


Now just sign up here for our 10 year believers deal. Special discounts if you want to spread the word on Twitter....

Are you buying?

a reply to: Guest101

I will raise this concern with the originator of the video.

a reply to: pigsy2400

Piggy...can you please expand on your point below. I really would like to hear your insights:

I think I already have an idea personally on the outcome.

a reply to: mirageman

Are you buying?

Nope, not this week!

I'm very conflicted about the entire situation. On one hand a lot of people seem to dismiss DeLonge because he's a "rock star", well, he is (sort of), but he's also been interested in the field since forever. True, the guy is also an entertainer and a businessman, but that doens't mean that he's lying.
Of course, everything so far seems too convenient, everything seems a plot to promote his TV show and books and whatever...but, what if this is really some sort of disclosure?

It's true that the most obvious (and probable) explanation is that DeLonge is either just trying to promote his show/business using lies -just dashed with enough real names to seem at least plausible- OR he's just the useful idiot for someone in the government/military to do some disinformation for them, for whatever reason (propaganda, to cover up some black project, etc.).

However, WHAT IF this is really disclosure? What if DeLonge and his associates really had the opportunity to talk with some people in the know and he really managed to convince them to share information? What if they were planning (or were forced) to disclose the truth and they thought that this was a good way? It's 2019, it wouldn't be completely out of the question to use entertainers to disclose (part of) the truth. Hell, wasn't Walt Disney supposed to help exactly with this exact topic before the entire idea was scrapped for some reason?

I understand people being suspicious or distrustful, but I wouldn't completely discard it. We'll see in some time I guess, but it's obvious by the amount of news circulating in respected outlets that there's something going on, could be disclosure or disinformation, but it's not what we're used to.

So, now the NYT, WaPo pieces etc. weren't because on TTSA? Not long a go it was the "planned media narrative" in mainstream media which made them dubious and an op. Did these media outlets start - at the same time - writing about UFOs because of TTSA or not? Tucker Carlson interwieving Elizondo and Mellon on FoxNews, Erin Burnett interwieving Elizondo on CNN, USA Today publishing three pieces on TDL, TTSA ja UAP's etc. is not because of what TTSA has been doing? Not because they've rolled out people like Harry Reid, Chris Mellon, Dr. Paul Rapp, Fravor, TDL, interacted (and apparently collaborated) with the likes of John Podesta etc? Whilst Hillary Clinton was running around talking about UAPs no less.

TTSA have made a thousand mistakes and like I said, I still don't know what their endgame is, but let's not kid ourselves. TTSA have gotten UFOs into the media and public discourse in a big way.

a reply to: Crusher

but, what if this is really some sort of disclosure?

And you don't think it's somewhat suspicious how all the actors in this play are pressing the talkingpoint, that this Tic-Tac definitely isn't "ours"?

Am I supposed to trust a rockstar (and a certain NSA PR idiot in one set of clothes) blindly, effectively ignoring the what... billions... trillions trickling down into all those unknown projects of Top-Secret America?

Published July 19, 2010, this first installment focuses on the U.S. intelligence system's growth and redundancies. It questions its manageability, as it has become "so large, so unwieldy, and so secretive that no one knows how much money it costs, how many people it employs, how many programs exist within it, or exactly how many agencies do the same work."[12] The report states that "An estimated 854,000 people, nearly 1.5 times as many people as live in Washington, D.C., hold top-secret security clearances."

en.wikipedia.org...

Don't tell me you have no idea what I'm getting at here?

a reply to: Crusher

What I see are party balloons, use of known fake footage, willful misinterpretation of flir videos, opinion articles in media, "documentary" series, and, to top it all off, the whole thing is run by intel guys.

Oh, but they've got really incredibly credible witnesses with an incredible story.

Is it good enough for you to believe? Then I guess it can be disclosure for you.

Recent correspondence from the Pentagon / Puthoff to John Greenwald;

Here is a reply from the Pentagon when John Greenwald presented the "Harry Reid" letter and asking if the information enclosed makes any difference in terms of his previous requests to clarify what El Zondo did or didnt do in terms of leading AATIP.

“I can confirm that the memo you’re referring to is authentic. DOD received it and responded to Sen. Reid,” Ms. Gough said. She then explains that her office is unable to provide The Black Vault a full copy of the response, since the Public Affairs office does not release Congressional correspondence, but she adds;

“It makes no change to previous statements. Mr. Elizondo had no assigned responsibilities for AATIP while he was in OUSD(I). DIA [Defense Intelligence Agency] administered AATIP, and Elizondo was never assigned to DIA. Elizondo did interact with the DIA office managing the program while the program was still ongoing, but he did not lead it.”

Hal Puthoff replied to the BlackVault;

“I have been following all the buzz back ‘n forth concerning Elizondo’s role in AATIP, and recognize that there are a number of misunderstandings – for reasonable reasons – given that the public doesn’t have detailed access to daily activities in Pentagon projects/offices.

Unfortunately for the public, those not directly connected, e.g., in the Public Affairs Office, are often themselves sketchy about details concerning highly-classified sensitive programs for which they have little-to-no access for security reasons. However, I have no problem asserting that as an AAWSAP [Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program]/AATIP Contractor & Senior Advisor I continued to attend meetings, provide briefings, gain access to videos, provide Proposed Program Plans, meet with staff, etc., all under the aegis of Elizondo’s leadership and responsibility for maintaining continuity of the Program effort and goals until he resigned.”

Source

John goes into further detail and replied to PooToff asking him further questions, to which he has not yet replied.

Why is this important? - Why do the details matter - is what the YGs ask all the time!

The guy who is purportedly leading "their" "Disclosure-Fest" doesnt stack up with regards to what he says and what he says he did.

a reply to: [post]moebius[/post]

No, I'm not saying that we should be gullible, there are more than enough red flags and factors to be suspicious, and I guess that we've all seen things like this before end in smoke and lies, but I'm just saying that we should at least keep a bit of an open mind (without stopping being critical), even with the background of everyone involved. Who knows.

Had to keep away from discussions for a couple of days; I think I had my first ATS 'blow-out' regarding TTSA, lol. Plus, I realised that booze and UFOs are not good bedfellows when typing online. So a valuable lesson learned at this stage of the Woo-Woo curve.

Feel more refreshed now, but this stuff needs to be taken in small doses.

originally posted by: moebius

Is it good enough for you to believe? Then I guess it can be disclosure for you.

True. If the belief is there, then so is disclosure for that individual. Simple as that, really. Just replace "Disclosure" with an equivalent religious term and Faith In The Almighty Zondo does the rest.

Who are we to deny that faith? Is TTSA a new future church? Is THAT the real goal?

As mentioned in the thread, a church exclusively for Americans, though, since the rest of the civilised world is not invited to watch something such as 'Unidentified' on their own local History Channels.

originally posted by: Jukiodone

Can't shake the feeling Justice is involved with TTSA because he had an "experience" and is searching for "answers" too.

Folk of a certain metaphysical persuasion--who are often experiencers--are like many other special-interest segments of society in that they gravitate towards each other and find themselves together at various workshops or form "contact" groups or join esoteric and occult organizations which have been around hundreds of years. I think folk from Podesta to Puthoff to Bigelow to Kit Green to Knapp to Delonge are members of a "club" of some sort. Maybe an "order" is a better descriptive.

Some of these groups and clubs are more active than others. Think of John Alexander and John Lilly bothering dolphins with "communication" projects or jetting off to find Atlantis or getting their heads tweaked by shaman.

I'm pretty sure we're seeing a subculture with these folk. I find that interesting, and if true, illuminating.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I think you are aware that I would not be one to defend TTSA; but maybe thats just down to distribution rights or agreements upfront. They may very well show the program on other localised versions of History channel, they may just be sitting and waiting to see how it performs at home first?

that to me seems logically... but then logic betrays the best of us in this field..

REVELATIONS; UFO APOCALYPSE!!

In my travels of TTSA Social Media, I have noted the giddiness of the "Young Guns" about upcoming episodes of "Unidentified", which many of them have access to way ahead of time in relation to everyone else, I wonder why and how that comes about lol

There is seemingly excitable chatter between them about what happens in Episode 6 -"Revenge of the Zond...." errr I mean "Revelations". They just gotta get the biblical stuff in there un-subtle huh! Well they are all hinting that there will be a new Public Program that investigates UFOs; a BlueBookesque program 2.0 if you will.

I have contemplated as a few others have, on just how TTSA will keep momentum for their cause rolling after the TV Show has finished and what "cliff hanger" note they will end on. I "theorize" that they will announce that they are working in partnership with elements of the USG, DOD, Pentagon etc, on creating and managing a program that will study, investigate and document UFO sightings.

They will be the "Public Go-To" for such documenting such sightings, this will be seen as a huge "hurrah" for them. The DoD will love this as they will not have to put in any resources for such a program and to be allowed to get in the door, TTSA will more than likely have to foot the bill but share all of the collated data with the government and in return TTSA will be able to shout from the rooftops that they are the USG goto.

Its interesting to think about it as the culmination of a lot of what has come before. Bigelow was the go to place for the FAA in regards to sightings years ago, TTSA will have achieved the same thing but in the public arena.

I spoke many many posts ago about TDL stating they wanted to create an "App" where members of the public could record any and all sightings utilizing the features of many smart devices; GPS Location, time, date, images, videos etc and upload them all to TTSA's "Sighting App". THAT is what I think will come at the end of their TV show and just my random musings on how that may come about and be executed.

TTSA does have people on-board that have been involved with elements that could assist such an initiatives and they have discussed "upgrading their community of interest" stuff.

What say you ATS?

Statement;
"I cannot confirm nor deny if I am, or if I am not, one of the "Young Guns" - I much preferred "City Slickers" personally.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

They may very well show the program on other localised versions of History channel, they may just be sitting and waiting to see how it performs at home first?

True. But so much for world-changing disclosure, then, if it needs a ratings measurement before allowing the rest of the world in on such a "revelation" (the title of Ep 6, I think).

It's basically no different to 'UFO Hunters' but without a resident sceptic on the crew. And the acting is generally below par. Zondo is quite naturally charismatic spouting his lines, but when he returns to SHADO HQ to brief his TTSA goons, the rest seem as stiff as outcasts from an Ed Wood movie. Driving companion Tom is particularly unlikely to win an acting Emmy.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Tom may not get an award for acting , but he sure has got people talking!

Harry Reid live now.
knpr.org...

originally posted by: pigsy2400
Recent correspondence from the Pentagon / Puthoff to John Greenwald;

Here is a reply from the Pentagon when John Greenwald presented the "Harry Reid" letter and asking if the information enclosed makes any difference in terms of his previous requests to clarify what El Zondo did or didnt do in terms of leading AATIP.

“I can confirm that the memo you’re referring to is authentic. DOD received it and responded to Sen. Reid,” Ms. Gough said. She then explains that her office is unable to provide The Black Vault a full copy of the response, since the Public Affairs office does not release Congressional correspondence, but she adds;

“It makes no change to previous statements. Mr. Elizondo had no assigned responsibilities for AATIP while he was in OUSD(I). DIA [Defense Intelligence Agency] administered AATIP, and Elizondo was never assigned to DIA. Elizondo did interact with the DIA office managing the program while the program was still ongoing, but he did not lead it.”

Hal Puthoff replied to the BlackVault;

“I have been following all the buzz back ‘n forth concerning Elizondo’s role in AATIP, and recognize that there are a number of misunderstandings – for reasonable reasons – given that the public doesn’t have detailed access to daily activities in Pentagon projects/offices.

Unfortunately for the public, those not directly connected, e.g., in the Public Affairs Office, are often themselves sketchy about details concerning highly-classified sensitive programs for which they have little-to-no access for security reasons. However, I have no problem asserting that as an AAWSAP [Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program]/AATIP Contractor & Senior Advisor I continued to attend meetings, provide briefings, gain access to videos, provide Proposed Program Plans, meet with staff, etc., all under the aegis of Elizondo’s leadership and responsibility for maintaining continuity of the Program effort and goals until he resigned.”

Source

John goes into further detail and replied to PooToff asking him further questions, to which he has not yet replied.

Why is this important? - Why do the details matter - is what the YGs ask all the time!

The guy who is purportedly leading "their" "Disclosure-Fest" doesnt stack up with regards to what he says and what he says he did.

To me it makes little to no difference. He didn't have to lie to fill his role with TTSA and I doubt that they're all so dumb to lie in matters that are easily debunked. I'm still waiting what's gonna come out of it. Even if it's gonna be fake alien invasion that's still better than nothing.

Thinking of calling in