"Progress" = Stuck in the Past

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Quadrivium

Don't be sorry... I thought it was kinda funny.

TheRedneck

Kinda? dang.......
On an positive note I have pictures of my wife and I at the State House in S.C. just before they removed the flag.

a reply to: okrian

They are statues of famous historical figures that contributed to the founding of this country. The US would not exist today as the country it is without them. Since you appear to be so disgusted by our past, I'm sure you know of a better country with a history that is more acceptable to you. You should consider going there. And take your friends with you.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Annee

Of course, individuals can still cling to their personal traditions.

What does that have to do with displays in the public square?

Those are our forefathers. Do you seriously not get that?

Would it be appropriate to erect a statue of Hitler in a Jewish demographic?

We're not erecting statues of Robert E. Lee in Pennsylvania. They're erected where his descendants live... where he was from. A statue of Hitler might be understandable in Germany; I don't really know and I don't really care. It's not my culture. Trying to equate a statue of Lee in the South with a statue of Hitler in Israel is beyond ridiculous and just emphasizes my point above: you understand absolutely NOTHING about Southern culture or the people who live here... and what you don't understand, you want to destroy. There's a name for that, you know.

You seriously need to get the Hades out of my culture. I'm not in here disparaging yours.

TheRedneck

I'm gonna go this way.

There are/were many women in history.

Growing up - - I was taught ONE - - Betsy Ross. It is not even known if she did what is attributed to her.

Was I ever taught how a person of color affected our history? Not on the positive side.

The Confederacy lost. Why so much glorification?

How The U.S. Got So Many Confederate Monuments

Most of these monuments did not go up immediately after the war’s end in 1865. During that time, commemorative markers of the Civil War tended to be memorials that mourned soldiers who had died, says Mark Elliott, a history professor at University of North Carolina, Greensboro.

“Eventually they started to build [Confederate] monuments,” he says. “The vast majority of them were built between the 1890s and 1950s, which matches up exactly with the era of Jim Crow segregation.”www.history.com...

a reply to: Annee

So Democrat's built them and now it's your right to tear them down?

a reply to: Annee

Here you go:
www.ushistory.org...

Betsy Ross has an entire house monumented to her.

Anyways, in modern terms, especially factoring in Accelerating Change, 100 years ago is like Ancient History. Unless YOU make the statues the zeitgeist (spirit of our times) then they were by in large completely irrelevant.

What people like you need to realize is that no matter how HARD you push your stuff the stuff you're pushing against isnt just going away. Instead, you see an equal opposing reaction. The more you turn up the extremism the more you will get in return. Where on this issue it was mostly a non-issue until you made it one; plenty of prominent and every day black folks alike would insist to leave them up; deep down its all just a ploy to poke people in the eye; and so on.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
Now GET OUT OF MY CULTURE! You don't understand it, and you, just like so many in history, just want to destroy that which you cannot understand.

TheRedneck

I was born and bred on the California Beaches.

Let's boycott/ban all disparaging opinions of California and its culture. OK?

Cheers

originally posted by: Annee

Let's boycott/ban all disparaging opinions of California and its culture.

No, but since they want to be their own nation so damned bad I say let them. The North wanted the South do damned bad, couldnt let them go, and now we're stuck with relics of that cultural appropriation and ya'll are going out of your minds about it like it 1858.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Annee

Here you go:
www.ushistory.org...

Betsy Ross has an entire house monumented to her.

Anyways, in modern terms, especially factoring in Accelerating Change, 100 years ago is like Ancient History. Unless YOU make the statues the zeitgeist (spirit of our times) then they were by in large completely irrelevant.

What people like you need to realize is that no matter how HARD you push your stuff the stuff you're pushing against isnt just going away. Instead, you see an equal opposing reaction. The more you turn up the extremism the more you will get in return. Where on this issue it was mostly a non-issue until you made it one; plenty of prominent and every day black folks alike would insist to leave them up; deep down its all just a ploy to poke people in the eye; and so on.

I know the story of Betsy Ross. There is no proof of her sewing the flag or designing it.

What you don't understand is I'm "pulling" not "pushing".

I'm pulling for a full recognized history. Not the white-washed one we're fed.

a reply to: Annee

Pulling for a "full history" by demand we quote "REPLACE" the parts you dont like.

I call BS.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Annee

Pulling for a "full history" by demand we quote "REPLACE" the parts you dont like.

I call BS.

Read the history of the statues.

When they were actually erected.

What the monuments were before they were erected.

nm

a reply to: Annee

Do an OP about it.

I didnt care either way until ya'll made an national agenda about it and swept national "news" and debate into all that "ancient" drama. NOBODY REALLY CARED before that.

This kind of pointless selfish identity BS you people act like are the most important thing we face, and all you've done is trigger every sort of dormant extremism [including your own teams; identity extremism is part of primitive innate human nature after all] thus ensuring the true threat of the Future will go off in the worst possible ways. Which for the fountainheads of your whole ideology was their objective for you their unwitting minions, all along.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: Annee

Let's boycott/ban all disparaging opinions of California and its culture.

No, but since they want to be their own nation so damned bad I say let them.

A handful of people make noise and you go for it?

How many times has Texas made noise about seceding?

Cheers - I've got a party to go to

a reply to: Annee

Let them too.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Annee

Do an OP about it.

I didnt care either way until ya'll made an national agenda about it and swept national "news" and debate into all that "ancient" drama. NOBODY REALLY CARED before that.

This kind of pointless selfish identity BS you people act like are the most important thing we face, and all you've done is trigger every sort of dormant extremism [including your own teams; identity extremism is part of primitive innate human nature after all] thus ensuring the true threat of the Future will go off in the worst possible ways. Which for the fountainheads of your whole ideology was their objective for you their unwitting minions, all along.

You lost me.

"You People"?

Primitive innate human nature - - - would be the animalistic behavior of survival of the fittest.

We really should intelligently progress beyond that.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Annee

Do an OP about it.

I didnt care either way until ya'll made an national agenda about it and swept national "news" and debate into all that "ancient" drama. NOBODY REALLY CARED before that.

This kind of pointless selfish identity BS you people act like are the most important thing we face, and all you've done is trigger every sort of dormant extremism [including your own teams; identity extremism is part of primitive innate human nature after all] thus ensuring the true threat of the Future will go off in the worst possible ways. Which for the fountainheads of your whole ideology was their objective for you their unwitting minions, all along.

You lost me.

"You People"?

Primitive innate human nature - - - would be the animalistic behavior of survival of the fittest.

We really should intelligently progress beyond that.

Yet the "liberal" HARDLINER appeal to Tribalism has triggered the most hardcore trends in Tribalism this nation has ever seen (particularly from the "left").

I've written about it time and again.

Ergo:
Hyper-Tribalism as our most assured route to De-Evolutionary Extinction

In short: "You cant defeat the historical pitfalls of Tribalism with yet more even more sophisticated Tribalism".

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Calling out racist remarks isn't exactly a lable. But I get where you are coming from/ going with this.

“Even the aesthetic activities of political opposites are one in their enthusiastic obedience to the rhythm of the iron system.”
[...]
“Today the order of life allows no room for the ego to draw spiritual or intellectual conclusions. The thought which leads to knowledge is neutralized and used as a mere qualification on specific labor markets and to heighten to commodity value of the personality.” ― Theodor W. Adorno, Dialectic of Enlightenment
― Theodor W. Adorno, Dialectic of Enlightenment: Philosophical Fragments

www.goodreads.com...

That's real progress right there, the society has trouble to keep up though. As usual, cuz... ya know... "TINA!" screams the chorus of self-preserving self-preservation. Poetic, innit?

originally posted by: TheRedneck

We're not erecting statues of Robert E. Lee in Pennsylvania. They're erected where his descendants live... where he was from.

Actually, there is a Robert E. Lee statue in Gettysburg, named the Virginia Monument. There is also a headquarters marker.

Anywho, things like this serve as reminders of the past, it shows us where we've been, and where we should not return. Erasing history isn't wise or fair. No doubt it's happened too many times already.

a reply to: Annee

You act as if you believe you are the new slaver and we must all obey you. You tell us what we are allowed to say, what history we are permitted to have, what we must think, etc.

You appear to believe you are intellectually superior and further "progressed" than the rest of us.

Why don't you just erect the statues you prefer and stop trying to dominate our lives? We find you offensive.

a reply to: Annee

I'm gonna go this way.

There are/were many women in history.

Growing up - - I was taught ONE - - Betsy Ross. It is not even known if she did what is attributed to her.

I was taught several. Madame Curie stands out as one example.

Was I ever taught how a person of color affected our history? Not on the positive side.

George Washington Carver... invented untold uses for the lowly peanut and thus introduced a whole new crop of food for a hungry planet.

Martin Luther King Jr... recent history, but already taught about.

Rosa Parks.

It sounds like out of the two of us, the 'enlightened' one is the one who was raised in a racially segregated fashion. And you call US racist? Maybe you need to look into your own culture and 'fix' it before you start trying to tell me how to fix mine.

The Confederacy lost. Why so much glorification?

BECAUSE THAT IS OUR FOREFATHERS!

Can you at least try to understand that? A few seconds of comprehension? Is that asking too much?

TheRedneck