School Shootings-----Possible Causation?

a reply to: TonyS

The pressure on kids is unbelievable, starting from elementary. My child has learning disabilities and when a young child unable to do tests due to anxiety, and not knowing her lessons. Basically, as involved as we were in the school (PTA), volunteering for concerts, field trips, fundraisers, very actively involved, it wasn’t until she reached grade 6 did we learn she was three years behind her grade level. And all the parent/teacher interviews we attended that sounded right, “We are working with her at her level and to instil confidence,” to her Grade 6 math teacher stating, “Even I don’t understand this new math stuff, but we have to teach it”, to one day our daughter telling us that she played math bingo in the resource room (not learning why or how math or English works, but playing games, did we hire a tutor. She came up to grade level in one year.

Part of the reason is the teachers (most) weren’t willing to incorporate ways to help her learn (i.e. provide the class notes they were going to discuss in class instead of handwriting them on the board so that everyone had to copy them - well they don’t teach handwriting in schools any longer so the kids, let alone my child, had no clue how to read handwriting, and after numerous suggestions of mine it just continued. There was no concern. The teachers would be the first ones out of the classroom at the end of the day and rush out of the parking lot. I remember my teachers always having time to talk to, ask questions about something after class.

Due to her learning disabilities we were asked if our child wanted to skip the standardization tests in elementary school. We always agreed due to our child’s anxiety, thinking how kind the principal was to ensure our child wouldn’t have to be burdened (don’t get me wrong: life happens and she has to adjust to life’s situations, but at grade 2, 3, etc?) we found out it was their way of making their school grade average look higher by not including our child as it meant a higher funding for the school.

At the beginning of the school year there was always a fee of say $130, then all the extra fees to attend field trips, school lunches, lunch time supervision fees, and to make sure your child arrived on the first day of school with their entire year’s school supplies - which my child hardly used and NEVER came home with at the end of the school year (not just the usual school supplies as when we went to school, but now it includes lined paper for school work, a 1” bundle of photocopy paper, 2 kleenex boxes, 6 erasers, 3 packages of 12 pencils each, 5 large white gluesticks, felt pens, crayons, coloured pencils, indoor shoes and outdoor shoes, headphones, earbuds, and more on top of the usual we remember as kids. And then a note: supplies may need to be restocked through the school year.)

We struggled with her learning disabilities every year and it fell on deaf ears, no matter the principal, vice principal, resource room guidance counsellor, each successive school teacher until panic attack(s) reared its head prior to transitioning into middle school and suddenly we had the full psychological assessment that carried on for two weeks - the one her grade 1 teacher had requested. Why?? Because now they could get more funding for our child at their last possible moment. It was that year we pulled her out of school and put her into home schooling. We couldn’t believe it when we started to get money back from the government because we hadn’t used all the funds necessary due our child for the school. No physical school means much less money being used by the school. The amount of money we saved by having her home schooled was ridiculous. It’s not for the faint of heart, and it has been extremely time consuming, but she has learned to think for herself, how to find the information and that is the most important aspect of schooling in my opinion. The kids in physical schools are little robots, sponging up the info based on a textbook (they change constantly as history/new science is learned, etc). She is at a 95% average now. It has taken me a lot of time to help her through her weakest courses. Her level of anxiety came down as there were no more girl groups to try to fit in with, or to interact with as it is all about peer pressure, competition, being accepted or an outcast.

And yes, they started asking the kids in grade 7 about their career intentions. In grade ten we had to discuss with the teacher what her career aspirations were as it determines which courses, and what level of courses to take for the last three years. And through it all it’s, “University this, University that”. They are brainwashed into thinking they HAVE to attend university or be failures as people and won’t get a good career. My daughter has been on the brink of several nervous breakdowns trying to keep her grades up so that she can enter university as there are so many kids competing for schools these days. If she wants to attend University then we support her 100%, but we are also letting her know she can learn a trade, go to community college, take a year off after school and volunteer or be an intern, or simply get a job to get experience/and to experience the real world outside of school.

They had to work on their resumes in grade 10 and there was a huge push for any volunteering, any jobs they could list. There is no way my child could ever manage fitting such events into her life what with the amount of homework given, and how much time they all take. My child manages to get all her work done, but that is with my help, with her starting at 7 in the morning and often going to bed at 2 in the morning - she has no extra-curricular activities, no hobbies, no “me” time - it’s school. We haven’t had a holiday in four years. She is learning disabled. Yet, she was the only child to get all the homework assignments done for two years in a row. So what does that tell you - the “normal” kids who do have lives/chores/jobs can’t handle the homework work load.

So yes, the whole system is messed up. And kids are suffering. Never mind the kind of future that is out there: violent world (seems more violent due to access to the Internet, no jobs, lower wages, many parents aren't involved in their kids' lives due to work responsibilities/lack of interest, having to be the perfect kid all the time (sports kids - this is a generalization) because everything they do whether it's art, sports, hobby, they are trained that it must show on their resume and the must be "somebody" worth hiring. Kids are not allowed to be kids to just run about outside to explore on their own or to be free. "Everyone" is a danger and kids are always looking over their shoulders and have their faces stuck in their phones all the time. Childhood has been lost.

a reply to: TonyS
Causation : US Gun Culture

It's a complex problem....and a lot of it falls on the administration and the teachers, but mostly on the board of education.

Years ago I taught at the JC level after univ.....they pretend to pay me so I pretend to teach.

School is just a place to warehouse kids while the parents work. It's a jungle of cliques, gangs, tribal groups and outlaws.

Education is futile in that kind of atmosphere; Run by bureaucrats and staffed by mostly drunks and pill freaques.

And people wonder why "johnny can't read"

a reply to: TonyS

I have to agree with the OP, I am not normal by any stretch of the imagination, but I had a good solid work related history from the time I was in grade 8. I repaired bikes for 4 hours a day, 3 days a week plus 7 hours on Saturday. Then from grade 9 through grade 11, I work in a surplus store 4 hours a day, 4 days a week and all of Saturday. I had to integrate and work with people my same age, older and much older. Didn't hurt me none, actually it allowed me to develop a good work ethic and learn to be responsible. That kind of learning doesn't seem available to a lot of kids these days, between cut backs, government attrition, etc.

Cheers - Dave

I think what's lacking here is that school is only a part of the equation and I believe a lesser part of it. Parents or the lack of a parent in the home and the environment at home plays a huge role in all of this and to ignore that is disingenuous and frankly an end run around the root of the problem(s).

Kid's simply do not turn into potential mass killers and not give out warning signs their parents should notice if they paid attention.

The after story on these horror tales always include the fact that the warning signs were there and ignored. A lack of involvement by their own families or the fact their household is itself a bad environment is more relevant in my opinion than being expected to learn in school.

School is likely the easiest least stressful thing a person will experience in their lives. If they can't deal with that, then how do they deal with the world as an adult?

This article is no doubt comforting for those who want to look beyond home for an excuse and to take away blame. It, however, is not addressing the real issues.

So there could actually be some good that comes out of these tragedies, the elimination of NEA and the complete rework or elimination of public education.

They have dumbed down these kids so much that they have finally lost control. Their creation will finally destroy itself and a new system will rise from the ashes. Maybe they have finally played their had too far and there is no leashing this beast anymore.

Through their effort to control and manipulate, they are creating the situation for freedom. More freedom than what we had before because now they will be fully exposed.

The OP makes a good point.

I work in schools as an IT professional. The school staffs and the educators and school administration all panic when testing is is going on. It’s a ridicules experience. It’s only just another test but they view it as almost a sacred endeavor. It’s ridiculous and leads to tension, strife amongst the staff and I am sure super worrying amongst the children.
You can’t even walk in the halls when these tests are going on as the monitors shushing everybody in sight.


Its probably does have a psychological effect on the kids—all that pressure

a reply to: Willtell

But as another poster pointed out, what about Japan? Their schooling is much more consuming and requires a greater amount of time compared to us. The also place a lot more importance on testing. The stress could be a factor but it is possibly a small factor. I would say we need to start looking behind the curtain where we will find the true answers.

We will have to look into that dark space that few seldom do.

originally posted by: skunkape23
Fook public school.
It is a hell-hole.
It was an act of will to not commit suicide.
Dip# teachers and counselers and ass-paddling prince-a-pals.
I was more intelligent than all of those fookers put together.
It was a years long torture session.
I still stand, while they wither.
And you know what?
I still have a sense of of humor.

I know exactly what you're talk'n about.
Some of the teachers in public schools were
complete whack jobs. I bet we could share
some stories.

They need to train and arm the teachers. if with nothing else but a taser. "non" deadly force. they might be more willing to use it if they think it will stop but not kill.

kids are sitting ducks in the school "gun free zone"

neon light to attack here.

jmho.

This makes more sense than any theory I`ve seen so far.Too much pressure and anyone will snap.great post.a reply to: TonyS

a reply to: ClovenSky

And, many countries do school year round, don't they?
Summer vacation is a remnant from farming times, when the kids were needed to do farm chores IIRC!

School Shootings-----Possible Causation?

I think it hasa lot to do with the fact that our captialistic society is so superficial, expensive and unfair that they don't feel like there's any point to life. What they see from the media, business, politics and their lives is that if you're not rich you're going to miss out on most of the good things in life, so why bother?

Remember that guy who ran over people in Canada because he couldn't get a girlfriend?

Straight from an 11th and 9th grader.....

school is bs. they don't teach you anything! everything is about getting ready for the next test, but 1/2 the time the teachers don't even know what's gonna be on it, so they don't teach anything, it's just all memorization, and once it's done, you don't have to know anymore.

"we learn more driving down the road to the store with you guys on one trip than we do for a whole semester in school"

Maybe they just don't want to go to school anymore,??? but i highly doubt they want to spend a day with me... ?

It isn't only schools....these crimes happen in workplaces and in churches and in the general public as well....the causality is always the same...alienation...sometimes it is a root causality of illness in one individual but in most cases IMHO it is a result of peer pressure catalysed by peer groups.....we ALLOW these peer groups and in some Countries like Canada we even PROTECT GENDER MANIPULATIVE GROUPS IN OUR SCHOOLS.......so we support and propagate this divisive dynamic....we set the stage for the actions......wherever and whenever small special interest groups are in-naturally EMPOWERED and are PROMOTED AND SUPPORTED AND GROWN above all else...we have these breakdowns of epic proportions.....on a societal level NA has been attacked for several generations by secret groups who wish to see the North American Society weaken and fail....this attack has been on the NUCLEAR FAMILY and it has been indirectly actioned via the financing furtively and anonymously of SMALL SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS which are then further grown and supported until they send out civic taproots to broaden their control spectrum ...once money begins to flow civic taproots wthin the community begin to grow.....however these roots SEPERATE US IN THE LONG TERM THEY DO NOT BRING US TOGETHER.

Stop little Billy and Little Mary from forming little peer group in schoos...these kids learn from their parents who are manipulativepersonalities...and we allow these few kids to flex and to strengthen their powers of manipulation and emulate their parents in our school systems....it has to stop.....we have to be more pro-active in identifying the disruptive manipulative minsets which catalyse and form these small peer groups in our schools..now in society these sick minds who are the PARENTS WHO TEACH THE LITTLE PREACHERS FORMING PEER GROUPS seem to find the greatest sucesses usually....because being manipulative and controlling benefits one greatly in the world we share...it also leads one to become emotionless and selfish and self-justified in being so.....so instead of trying to identify the kids who will one day be driven to snap due to isolation and abuse from peer groups in our schools which is impossible to do because usually these are kids who are NOT SICK but who have been forced to react .....remember now the little preachers who emulate mom or dad or both are the ones who are projecting illness and who should be considered disruptive and problematic.....IMHO their parents ARE SICK and the children WILL BECOME AS SICK AS THEIR PARENTS if they are allowed to practice their dirty little trade as kids on OUR KIDS and then continue on their way to becoming duplicates of mom and dad in our society.

It is far far easier to illuminate and remove the CAUSALITY of the disease ...which is these few manipulative smart arse little boys and girls who follow their parents teachings and become mini-tyrants...these FEW KIDS WHO ARE VERY VERY EASY TO IDENTIFY are ALWAYS CATALYSTS OF PEER GROUPS for they have been taught how to become so and have been given the opportunitys to hone these skills.

The majority of people wish to be followers....few are rebels and few are leaders....to fix this problem we target the leaders who are these wee little tyrants who do not even know what they are doing who do not understand the complicated dynamic understandings of manipulation their parents have taught them to use at a very young age.

originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: TonyS

That is definitely a possible contributing reason.
When I was in high school I skipped many of classes for “extra curricular activities” to the point I would almost have to repeat. Luckily it was at a time when you really only had to pass the tests. And well I have a passed those with ease.

I did too, but probably not in the way you did.

I learned to work the system to my advantage. I actually did choose extracurriculars with an eye to the number of days they would land me out of the classroom.

There were weeks when I was maybe sitting regular classes for only a day and a half and I was outside doing other things the rest of the time. Academic competitions were the best -- go spend most of your day wandering some local college campus and bowl in their student union for only maybe an hour or two of actual effort.

So long as my grades stayed up. I figured it was nobody's business but mine how I was spending my time.

originally posted by: CB328

School Shootings-----Possible Causation?

I think it hasa lot to do with the fact that our captialistic society is so superficial, expensive and unfair that they don't feel like there's any point to life. What they see from the media, business, politics and their lives is that if you're not rich you're going to miss out on most of the good things in life, so why bother?

Remember that guy who ran over people in Canada because he couldn't get a girlfriend?

That's what happens when you secularize society and encourage people to leave spirituality out of their lives.

a reply to: TonyS

The biggest problem with kids being completely schooled by computer at home, and this is a point that my son's teacher raised when we were in a conference with her, for some kids, school is a refuge because home is not a very positive place. For those kids, parents wouldn't bother to see to it that the home computing schooling was followed through on.

a reply to: ketsuko

Irony in that. School isnt much of a refuge anymore.

a reply to: TonyS

I think it depends on the school, teacher, administration and kid's own environment on how much that will be true.

That is obviously going to vary greatly from place to place. Right now, my kid has a decent school with a principal who runs a tight ship and the place is maintained and kids are well controlled with discipline. He had an issue earlier and as soon as it was brought up, it was stopped.

But that's not going to be every school, and we know that by the time he hits junior high, we'll likely be seeking other avenues again. And if things change at this school in terms of leadership, things may change. The way school districts operate, it can be year to year.

As a parent who cares, you constantly have to stay aware and involved.