The True Mayan Prophesy: Why We Are So Angry

a reply to: CreationBro
You might want to consider that the Moon is either waxing or waning gibbous about 50% of the time (1 week each). Among other things.

a reply to: Phage

I only looked through about the first page of your linked thread about galactic alignment. It looks like you show earth sun galaxy center alignment in your op..

The galactic plane being the line that connects all the dots is not shown is it? Gravity in a flat galaxy would be more intense on the plane than below or above.

Back when I was interested in 2012, I never came across a good answer to where we are in relation to the galactic plane..

Besides that the galaxy is rippled, so I wonder if its even feasible for the greatest gravitational effect to be at that plane anyway if our local area is mostly "above" us.

Another one.. What is the mass of the central black hole and distance? The Sun has half the gravity effect on Earth as the Moon.. That squared distance part means the pull of gravity drops off pretty quick..

Could all that gravity even be noticed in comparison to the Sun and Moon? In other words gravitational effects on human consciousness? Should have little to do with the galaxy and more to do with moon sun line ups, as I think the galaxy center is something like 10 times weaker gravity here on earth than from the sun to earth.

That's starting after the part we prove consciousness and changes in gravity are related in some way. lol.

I agree with most of the OP, although i must say when stating things about the full moon, that is nothing more than location. So, unless you are stating that its the moons location in particular causing disruptions, i can not agree with you. The post seemed like you were saying just because its a full moon, the moon is bigger and takes up more space. You seem quite intelligent so i hope that statement was not your intent. It was just awkward to read is all. Perhaps the particular locations of the celestial bodies would be causing interuptions, in your theory of the space-time “interference”... but the moon just being full is nothing more than light being cast upon it due to it being in a certain area, it still takes up the same out of space and has the same mass no matter where its at. That part was a bit... confusing.

Well thought out and well put together regardless though. I enjoyed the read and will look forward to seeing this as it progresses!

a reply to: Phage

The supposed Maya thing? I haven't seen any indication that they had any such beliefs

Here is one page that gives a decent description of the astronomical correlation. It does go into astrology some farther down the page, and since I'm not close to an astrologer, I won't comment on that part. I also have verbal verification that the correlation with the galactic equator crossing was purposeful... that is a little harder to link.

An argument can (and has, already in this thread) be made that the galactic equator we crossed on December 21, 2012 was simply an arbitrary plane because the Maya had no way to know where the actual central plane of the Milky Way is. I cannot refute that and will not try to. It boils down to whether or not one believes the Maya legends or not. I tend to give them some credence, primarily because the Maya took such great pains in their astronomical observations. Your mileage may vary.

Do those studies take into account such things as weekends?

I do not know. I did not memorize them all when I was searching. I would assume at least some did.

Do yours?

In your hypothesis, does a perigeal Moon (of any phase) have a greater effect than one at apogee? Have you noticed a difference, with all your driving?

I would suggest possibly. It would depend on whether the contributing factor (assuming of course that gravitational deviation from average is a cause) is static or dynamic; in other words, is the cause the absolute value of the gravitational flow, or is it the rate of change of the gravitational flow with time? If the former, yes; if the latter, probably not because the deviation from perigee to apogee and back again is very slow compared to the phase changes.

It is easy to see whether the moon is full or not when driving; it is much more different to see how far away it is. Thus, no, at the time I made no such correlation, nor was I in a position to do so.

TheRedneck

a reply to: PhatalError

The post seemed like you were saying just because its a full moon, the moon is bigger and takes up more space.

LOL, no, that was not my intent.

A full moon is, by necessity, approximately opposite the earth as the sun. That is the only way the entire side of the moon pointing toward the sun would be visibly lit. A new moon would indicate, in comparison, that the moon was located approximately between the earth and the sun. It is that approximate alignment that causes gravitational forces to be completely additive or subtractive, leading to a maximum or minimum amount of gravitational effects. New moon = additive, full moon = subtractive.

How big it looks has absolutely nothing to do with my theory.

One thing I really like about ATS is the ability members have to dissect information and point out flaws as well as correlations. In this case, one flaw I have caught is that (as I indicated to Phage earlier) the gravitational effects may be related by the derivative of the gravitational flow, that is, how fast the flow is changing with time. That would indicate that similar effects felt during the full moon should also be present during a new moon as well. It is possible it is, and the visual correlation throughout history has simply not been noticeable. I guess one could say that, in that case, the 'size of the moon' would appear to be a factor at least in the historical and anecdotal notice of any effects.

But it certainly wouldn't affect the effects themselves, lol.

TheRedneck

a reply to: crappiekat

Empirically, your children have never had a brighter future. There is less war, less violence, more prosperity, and more kindness. Turn off the news and go do something. Go be around people. Go into the mountains or to the beach. You'll realize the world isn't changing for the worse. It's changing for the better. The problem is, the media doesn't want it to.

a reply to: TheRedneck

That's how I too imagine it would work. But then it seems that the effects would be spread out over many, many years -- let's say at least several thousand years, probably more -- if it's true that the sun's orbit around the galaxy takes 230 million years. So I don't think a human being would be able to notice the change in one lifetime, just like a dragonfly living only for a day would not notice anything off about the moon. If the crossing of the plane caused any kind of turmoil during the last few years, then I think on a cosmic scale it really would be like a 'trip-wire', the scale of our everyday lives is so small compared to the whole cosmos or even just the milky ways. And yeah, AFAIK the long count itself is way shorter 230 million years.

So these details don't add up for me, but still a great thread. I definitely believe don't believe science has explained all these things, and the connections between the moon and life on earth are fascinating and mysterious.

originally posted by: Reverbs
a reply to: Phage

I only looked through about the first page of your linked thread about galactic alignment. It looks like you show earth sun galaxy center alignment in your op..

The galactic plane being the line that connects all the dots is not shown is it? Gravity in a flat galaxy would be more intense on the plane than below or above.

Back when I was interested in 2012, I never came across a good answer to where we are in relation to the galactic plane..

Besides that the galaxy is rippled, so I wonder if its even feasible for the greatest gravitational effect to be at that plane anyway if our local area is mostly "above" us.

Another one.. What is the mass of the central black hole and distance? The Sun has half the gravity effect on Earth as the Moon.. That squared distance part means the pull of gravity drops off pretty quick..

Could all that gravity even be noticed in comparison to the Sun and Moon? In other words gravitational effects on human consciousness? Should have little to do with the galaxy and more to do with moon sun line ups, as I think the galaxy center is something like 10 times weaker gravity here on earth than from the sun to earth.

That's starting after the part we prove consciousness and changes in gravity are related in some way. lol.

It's all the detritus we go through when we cross the plane of the galaxy. More comets and stuff.

26,000 yrs? That's 1 revolution.

We go up and down though the plane. As a system.

And get smacked.

Would it be better if we were closer to the center?

a reply to: burgerbuddy

26,000 yrs? That's 1 revolution.

That seems pretty fast for movement within the Galaxy. Are you confusing precession (the wobble of Earth's axis) with the motion of the Solar System in the Galaxy?

It takes the Solar System about 240 million years to complete one revolution of the Milky Way (a "galactic year"). There is also a "vertical" cycle (harmonic oscillation) which lasts about 60 million years. As has been pointed out, we passed through the galactic plane about 3 million years ago (on our way "up") and won't do so again for about 27 million (on our way "down").

Crossing the galactic plane is a slow process. The Galaxy is big, really big. We've been there, and done it. A long time ago. When we weren't human.

www.astro.ncu.edu.tw...

a reply to: TheRedneck

Here is one page that gives a decent description of the astronomical correlation.

Galactic equator now? Not the Galactic plane?

Your source points out the "alignment" I discuss in that thread. There is nothing special about it, as I point out in that thread. Your source makes a big deal out of the Sun crossing the Galactic equator. Thing is that happens twice each and every year. In the summer and the winter.

Your source also mentions the harmonic oscillation of the Solar System in the Milky way but it doesn't mention that it is a 60 million year cycle or that we crossed the plane 3 million years ago.

An argument can (and has, already in this thread) be made that the galactic equator we crossed on December 21, 2012 was simply an arbitrary plane because the Maya had no way to know where the actual central plane of the Milky Way is.

We didn't cross anything on December 21, 2012. But the days did start getting longer. Like they do every year on that date.

a reply to: TheRedneck


The over view effect if you have not heard of it; check it out.

a reply to: face23785


We are distracted by our conceptual creations; they were distracted by the nature they crawled out of; two very different sets of knowledge.

We build off of the passed knowledge; and well pretty much in conquest other cultures tried to burn all of their culture. Consider that Egyptian mummies used to be burned in locomotives instead of coal. Conservation of the past to learn from it, protect it is a rather new thing it used to be just tomb raiding and well some of it still is.

Spiritualism as in closer to the earth and natures energy is closer to that knowledge; than running around the conceptual knowledge that has tried to define it "all" all is defined in one word only "all" it is occuring at all times and places at once; the "all" and yet the anti all is as well... being aware of both occuring is what is known as simultaneously born; they cancel each other out immediately... what is left an instant or what someone has thrown their name on called Planck. That space where time exists and does not move as space and time are equal.

However; that space or instant stretches to infinity based on volition to move; whether the result is beneficial or not; depends on the amount of ignorance occuring.

Ignorant of what the Mayas etc knew is the ignorance of others thinking they knew better... later such as the Dresden codex we know that was ignorant and even then knew it was but in dominion and domination ideology in the name of something... deemed it ok.

Wisdom shows it was not ok; but what can be done about it now? Not repeat the same instance of volition that leads to the same thing.

The Mayans had earths rotation down to numbers we can not even calculate 365 is wrong in their observations for the yearly cycle. But what would it matter in the larger context? Even knowing the 365 the masses or "world" still would not revolve at that rate... and yet naturally without us? DOES.

a reply to: Phage

Galactic equator now, instead of the galactic plane?

Take your pick. From my reading, they seem to be pretty much synonymous to some and not to others. In a situation like that, it's hard to get overly 'scientific' with the terms.

Your source points out the "alignment" I discuss in that thread. There is nothing special about it, as I point out in that thread. Your source makes a big deal out of the Sun crossing the Galactic equator. Thing is that happens twice each and every year. In the summer and the winter.

Summer and winter have nothing to do with galactic position. Those are seasons caused by the arrangement inside the solar system.

Your source also mentions the harmonic oscillation of the Solar System in the Milky way but it doesn't mention that it is a 60 million year cycle or that we crossed the plane 3 million years ago.

I saw that. It's pretty obvious that it is a cyclic motion that is not the same as the one claimed in Mayan culture. That one is closer to 26,000 years (13 long counts).

We didn't cross anything on December 21, 2012. But the days did start getting longer. Like they do every year on that date.

We cross something every moment of every day. Any region of space contains an infinite number of planes. The question is whether or not that something is of significance. That is the problem with the difference (if any) between a 'galactic plane' and the 'galactic equator.' An equator is a plane, but it may or may not be coincidental with a center of mass plane, or a plane of mean rotation,or any other plane one could describe.

And again, the solstice has nothing to do with galactic alignment or position.

TheRedneck

a reply to: BEBOG

Do you have a link to get me started?

TheRedneck

a reply to: PhatalError


Just think of how many images have stars in that dark shadow part...


I find it silly because as a youth I used to draw it that way, there was prior influence though; and it is interesting how that apriori effects and influences obviously more than the moon; and yet on a level that is not shone upon until seen clearly in full understanding.

a reply to: TheRedneck


en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: TheRedneck

From my reading, they seem to be pretty much synonymous to some and not to others.

In science, words mean things.

Summer and winter have nothing to do with galactic position.

Correct. Neither does the Sun's crossing of the Galactic equator, like what happens in December and June each year.

I saw that. It's pretty obvious that it is a cyclic motion that is not the same as the one claimed in Mayan culture. That one is closer to 26,000 years (13 long counts).

Which is why some people think that the Maya may have been aware of the precession of the equinoxes (I have my doubts). Which, of course, has nothing to do with the position of the Solar System in the Galaxy. So why do you think it has something to do with crossing the plane of the Galaxy?

And again, the solstice has nothing to do with galactic alignment or position.

Of course it doesn't (Except that the Sun crosses the Galactic equator on the solstices. That slowly changes, though, due to precession.). Your source seemed to think it was important though, and special. Which it isn't.

The Mayan Long Count End Date (13.0.0.0.0 in the Long Count) represents the rare alignment of the Winter Solstice Sun crossing through the Galactic Equator along the dark band of stars at the center of the Milky Way Galaxy, and the Ecliptic (the path of the Sun) that will occur exactly 11:11 AM Greenwich Mean Time.

williamstickevers.wordpress.com...

a reply to: Phage

In science, words mean things.

...because in science, words are rigidly defined. The terms we are discussing are not.

Correct. Neither does the Sun's crossing of the Galactic equator, like what happens in December and June each year.

Can you rigidly define "galactic equator"? I wouldn't want to misunderstand you again.

Which is why some people think that the Maya may have been aware of the precession of the equinoxes (I have my doubts). Which, of course, has nothing to do with the position of the Solar System in the Galaxy. So why do you think it has something to do with crossing the plane of the Galaxy?

Why do you think it doesn't?

Do you think that our position in the galaxy has any effect on the planet or the life on it?

Of course it doesn't (except that the Sun crosses the Galactic equator on the solstices). Your source seemed to think it was important though, and special. Which it isn't.

Any thoughts on why the crossing of the galactic equator might be so tightly linked to the solstices? That seems oddly coincidental considering one is galactic and the other is related to the inner workings of the solar system.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Can you rigidly define "galactic equator"? I wouldn't want to misunderstand you again.

The galactic equator is the great circle where the plane of the Galaxy intersects the celestial sphere. N, S are the North and South galactic poles, while the ``zero'' meridian is the one passing through the points N, S, and the point C where the direction from Earth to the centre of the Galaxy meets the celestial sphere. This meridian is also called the galactic meridian.

ned.ipac.caltech.edu...
It is part of a spherical coordinate system which surrounds the Earth. It is an imaginary line. An imaginary line which the Sun crosses twice each year. Do you understand that is what happened on December 21, 2012, and 2013, and 2014, and 2015, and 2016, and 2017, and will do so again this year? Twice?

Why do you think it doesn't?

Because precession, like the seasons, has nothing to do with the position of the Solar System within the Galaxy.

Do you think that our position in the galaxy has any effect on the planet or the life on it?

There is a hypothesis that when the Solar System crosses the Galactic plane (every 30 million years or so) the increased stellar density (as well as dark matter?) causes perturbations of Oort comets resulting in increased cometary incursions of the inner solar system. This may be reflective of a similar cycle in biodiversity (impacts are not so good for biodiversity). Sounds reasonable to me. Since we did so about 3 million years ago, the risk may be waning a bit.

Any thoughts on why the crossing of the galactic equator might be so tightly linked to the solstices?

Not really. Precession will change that. Like it changes which constellation the Sun is in on the equinoxes. Astrology.

a reply to: Phage

ned.ipac.caltech.edu...

That is an interesting read. I wish their terminology was used to more effect in other areas.

However, their explanation is not consistent with the effects I am hypothesizing.

In terms of the (alpha, delta) system, the point C has the coordinates alpha approx 17h42m.4, delta approx -28°55'. It is possible to convert from one coordinate system to another using spherical trigonometry.

While this is no doubt true as of the instant in time the page was written, those coordinates will change over time. Very little in nature is perfect, and orbits are no exception. Even the (assumed symmetrical) orbit of the earth around the sun is not perfect; it has an apogee and perigee. It is implausible that the orbit of the solar system around the galactic center would be any different.

Another issue from a theoretical point of view is that both the celestial and galactic coordinate systems are based on visible examination of the key points from the earth. The earth is far from a stable reference point; it is in constant rotation, has a distinct 'wobble,' and is in orbit around the sun, which in turn is undoubtedly rotating as well and in orbit around the center of mass of the local group of stars in the arm of Orion, which in turn again is in orbit around the center of mass of the Milky Way and could even be changing configuration as the stars which make it up follow their respective orbital paths.

Of course, we at this time have no better method to measure by. The above is not a condemnation or refution of Caltech, but rather a wishful desire for a better, more accurate coordinate system which is simply impossible at present.

My hypothesis is built on the question: did the Mayans somehow understand our position in the galaxy better than we do today? That may seem a ridiculous query at first; the Mayan (and Aztec before them) civilizations existed in history, and Caltech is one of today's leading institutes of scientific thought. If we take recent history and extrapolate the level of knowledge from it, it is obvious that knowledge increases with time.

That extrapolation is incomplete, however. We have no way to determine if pre-history has obscured a reset in the amount of knowledge of the human race. That of course means we have no indication such a reset occurred at all, but it also means there is no reason to declare one did not occur. We simply do not know. The absence of proof is not proof of absence.

In short, while the efforts of Caltech to rigidly define the terms we have been throwing around is admirable, that definition is not rigid and is not consistent with the theoretical definitions I have been using out of ignorance of Caltech's work.

There is a hypothesis that when the Solar System crosses the Galactic plane (every 30 million years or so) the increased stellar density (as well as dark matter?) causes perturbations of Oort comets resulting in increased cometary incursions of the inner solar system.

This I am more familiar with, although the question then becomes, if this cycle is implemented by gravitational adjustments relative to the space we are in at those times (which is the theory; no one familiar with the theory seriously suggests actual collisions are initially responsible for Oort Cloud perturbations), is it not reasonable to suggest that other permutations are also possible as we move through galactic space? And if that is true, would it not be possible that others may have been aware of such cyclic changes by observing them and the heavenly correlations over an extended civilization?

TheRedneck