Trump wildlife board stuffed with trophy hunters

a reply to: sapien82

Doesn't seem like you understand trophy hunting either.

But experience by proxy..I guess that's the same thing as actual experience.

Currently the trophy hunters are losing the battle of conservation of trophy species.

So perhaps they could at least admit that much or else their silence says they are having a different battle in which they are actually winning.

a reply to: howtonhawky

Wouldn't that be law enforcement in the country's involved are loosing the battle against poachers? Hunters don't enforce the law.

Hunters have never been the problem. It's poachers and the trade in places like China of illegal animal parts. That and in some cases the local residents themselves not having game management programs.

Remember, we have no power in those countries for the most part. Neither does the UN or any other body other than their own government. The criticism should be directed at those who can control it. You know, the governments of those sovereign nations where what we want means nothing.

a reply to: Blaine91555

It's easier to fuss and complain about the trophy hunters, I guess.

Never mind that the actual near irreversible damage to many species is done by poachers. Once upon a time, yes, trophy hunters did incredible damage to the populations of new endangered animals. That, however, was in the past. Trophy hunting is heavily regulated...nor would it especially bother me to see it gone, but to claim it's the main cause is ludicrous.

a reply to: howtonhawky

Currently the trophy hunters are losing the battle of conservation of trophy species.

Once again, you're conflating hunters for poachers.

Poaching is the problem.

This is why I say most of you don't understand the issue you're so outraged about. You levy accusations like this:

else their silence says they are having a different battle in which they are actually winning.

What an asinine thing to say. You'd never listen to a Trophy hunter even if that person was willing to engage with you, and you know it.

a reply to: seagull

I have a sign I've had for years, that simply says "Logic Is Dead".

I guess it might help if we track it from the end point backwards for say Rhino horns to be sold in China for aphrodisiacs.
-Customer buys the horn creating the market.
-Business illegally buys and sells Rhino horns to support the customers wants.
-Rhino horns are not available legally so the buyers and sellers pay big money.
-Poachers kill the Rhino's illegally and sell the horns to the buyers.

Nowhere in that trail of culprits exist any hunters.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Which will be ignored.

Which is one of the reasons the white rhino population is down to two females. Because people ignored the real problem.

a reply to: projectvxn

Oh I understand trophy hunting alright, its humanity riding the wave of egotism and our incessant need to dominate nature
for no other reason than to say "hey look at me go" , " check out my big balls everyone , I can kill a wild animal with a gun"
" I am man hear me roar"

I detest trophy hunting and trophy hunters are just egotists

a reply to: projectvxn

seems you missed the part where I'd said I've been hunting before !

or did you just ignore that part because it detracted from your argument that you know everything about hunting
and I know nothing and therefore I shouldn't have an opinion on hunting ?

a reply to: Blaine91555

so a poacher and a hunter are two different things then ?

they both require the act of "hunting" to be either

poachers are just hunters operating illegally to make extra cash

just like a fisherman can also be a poacher if he hasnt paid his fees

it's semantics the basis of the argument saying that , poaching is the problem , but really its hunting in general !
Understandably because of mans intervention in the balance of nature , we have created these issues for ourselves
and through our own efforts tipped a balance in nature and we are now having to take time and resources to fix it

the extinction of the wolf in the British Isles to protect live stock , so now the deer overpopulate and ruin , various environments for other species
so we have to spend time and resource to keep their populations in check because they ultimately are "running wild"

we have gotten to this point because we have taken more than we need!

just a question
as for trophy hunting , are there any hunter gatherer tribes who take trophies of animals ? and if so , how often do they trophy hunt if at all?


Found this its quite an interesting read

Why men trophy hunt








The real answer to this problem is the pay the poachers to protect the animals from other hunters
make them defend against trophy hunters and other poachers

Many illegal poachers in China who were responsible for the depletion of many rare birds that visit china
are now being paid by the government to conserve the birds, by catching , tagging and releasing them.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Nowhere in that trail of culprits exist any hunters.

Sometimes grace fades fast

You are inputting more false data with the intention not to help but to get hunters off the hook.

For one thing monies from hunters that were givin toward rhino conservation were squandered without question by hunters with just an attempt to get blood off hands.

Rhino hunters killed many rhinos and that is why only two whiteys are left.

Do you really think that no freaken hunter has paid big bucks for whiteys?

a reply to: projectvxn

bs

your ignorance bores me at this point.

The problem is all those animals with bullet holes in them.

Done by hunters and poachers.

The only goal that hard heads are putting forth is to keep the killing going.

a reply to: howtonhawky

Thanks for proving my point for everyone to see.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: projectvxn

seems you missed the part where I'd said I've been hunting before !

or did you just ignore that part because it detracted from your argument that you know everything about hunting
and I know nothing and therefore I shouldn't have an opinion on hunting ?

I already replied to your 'experience by proxy' post.

You're still conflating hunters and poachers.

Your ignorance on the subject is on display.

a reply to: sapien82

, and Ive spent time around hunters and been hunting before myself for game birds.

see yuns later

a reply to: projectvxn

well I cant really add more to support my statement , if you are willfully ignoring my statement that I've personally been hunting for game birds then I cant really convince you otherwise.


There is no conflation between hunters and poachers , its semantics, a hunter , hunts
a poacher is nothing more than a hunter who does so illegally

call me ignorant all you like your refusal to acknowledge that fact shows your ignorance !

a reply to: sapien82

Between you and howtohawky, the accusations that hunters are in on it, the refusal to separate the problem(poaching and poachers) from those trying to help(lawful hunters and conservationists) shows a bias that, even though the dynamic has been explained and shown ad nauseum, you both refuse to understand the problem.

You just wanna bash Trump. I get it. Doesn't really help that effort if you have to admit your position is faulty.

True conservation is a very difficult thing to balance and achieve.

When I worked for the USFS, the amount of environmentalists (I use that term loosely..) that protested basic caretaking of the forest was truly, truly astonishing. Arguably, their hearts when in the right place, but the ideology clashed completely and entirely with reality. They frequently did more overarcing, general "damage" than their social group counterparts.

Conversely, the amount of scenes and situations created by hunters was equally shocking. Some of the things I saw wouldn't have been out of place on the set of a horror movie...

These two main groups aren't really capable of much of anything, though they tend to be the most vocal and in that, can drive policy.

Striking a true balance that marries conservation with reality will leave both dissatisfied. Like in many similar arenas, I think expecting the silent middle ground to speak up is less likely than achieving the same end through compromise. Though, in this social climate, neither is particularly likely, I suppose.

a reply to: projectvxn

What is the problem?

I was under the impression that the dwindling numbers of exotic wildlife was the problem.

You my friend continue to defend the indefensible actions of a reality that the odds are against a group of hunters to solve the problems of illegal trade,poor governance,weak wardens and squandering of funds givin by hunters and conservationist.

Think of the time we have been debating this issue and yet not one single action except to decide that continuing to kill is the only answer they can decide on while hiding behind the very laws they create.

Perhaps if you cared more then you may be able to see that i have no grievance with fellow hunters except the action recently taken to continue the slaughter without addressing the overall problem in any meaningful way.

STOP pretending that we think we are better than you or that my slong can out dance yours cause that is not what this is about.

It is about increasing the overall numbers of exotics in order to have a future game population that can be managed in a similar manner that has been done here in the usa.

Everyday that passes without action is further proof that we need a group that better represents life of the creatures and not the death of the creatures.

The group will come out and conveniently claim to be road blocked in their actions when people bitch enough.

That is likely the extent of their actions.

Oh let me guess they have a trip planned in months to personally view one single area of wildlife and then come back and request more funds.

I bet if we just call them undocumented immigrants then someone would take notice.

Perhaps the tabloids could make a deal with the big guy to give him great coverage on every front page if he takes action then maybe something would get done.

How about the group invite leading conservationist to join them and hash this out?

No they will not likely do that because it could result in some type of action.

Let me guess the wise man told them that the best way is to make everyone believe everything is happening while actually nothing is happening.

Quit playing sports and join in on life.

Trying to say a hunter and a poacher are the same is like saying a paying shopper and shoplifter are the same. Try that bit of false logic in court.