The Problem with Disclosure; why the government and insiders are afraid to tell us what is going on

originally posted by: jjkenobi
There was a thought provoking video I watched a few years back that documented how as technology progressed "alien" beings that claimed to be from outer space kept moving their home planets farther and farther away so that nothing could be verified. The moon, venus, neptune, Orions Belt, another galaxy, etc etc.

Maybe it's all part of a plan to lure us out into space. First you send psychic messages to a few receptive people on Earth. Even if they're laughed at, the idea of outer space aliens has been successfully planted in society. It infects our media, filling it with images and movies of real or imagined aliens, and stimulates our desire to explore space however we can. They seem close at first, but then they get farther away, making us become even more clever. Drawing us nearer to them.

That's a pretty clever invasion scheme, all done by lifelike memes.

a reply to: Archivalist

Disclure will help humanity grow. Yes, it will be painful. However, it will help humanity and maybe make us evolve beyond our current paradigm. Without disclosure, we'll continue on our same path with all the wars, lies, corruption and human suffering.

The real reason behind anti-disclosure is power. Military and governments won't give up their power and wealth, so this excuse of "humanity will hurt with disclosure" is BS. Yes humanity will hurt, but not any more than what the militarys and governments are already doing with their violence and lies

So keep pretending that the government is justified in hiding the truth. Their real reason is power and control.

a reply to: andy06shake

Some have made wild claims about the moon being hollow. And wilder still are the flat earther's. Not sure how they hold that theory together when we see a round spherical moon and round sun and round planets around us. Not any of those flat.

a reply to: blueman12

Disclosure will involve more than just an awareness, but effects on people's consciousness and abilities. This is what the governments fear most. An independent public that have ways to repel negative influences both in health and finances and control. Being part of a larger universal group will mean humans have to grow in selflessness and love to progress.

a reply to: DOACSTribe

I love a good conspiracy as much as the next man but breakaway civilizations really are the stuff of fiction.

It's not what i actually know, or what i have actually verified, its what science has proven and what common sense dictates.

Our Moon is not hollow, neither is our Earth, both proven by scientific study!

As to who is in control?

Same people it always has been aka the banking houses and cartels, the corporations and the military-industrial complex aka "They".

Break it down as much as you wish, but no need for Aliens or hidden civilizations. As agenda, class war, religious intolerance and our own Goddard penchant for self-destruction are all that's really required for these people to retain control.

originally posted by: proteus33
a reply to: schuyler

here is what would likely happen if gov admits aliens are here
1 citizens would be scared to point of hysteria
2 religions when facing aliens would collapse as their beliefs are disproven

I don't believe either scenario is likely and have spent several long posts delineating why this is so. There may be a few weak-minded people who couldn't handle it, but by and large our secular science-oriented society is well acquainted with the idea of ET. Further, proof of ET would NOT disprove any religion. As I've said several times now, the Vatican is on board with the idea. And if by some chance I'm right about what the real issues are, it will be shown that religions have been much closer to the truth than science has been. It will enhance their faith rather than destroy it.

originally posted by: Archivalist
a reply to: andy06shake

Disclosure is a bad bet, no matter what. BECAUSE of your point. We have military unknown, unknowns. On the off chance they are here and have already infiltrated humanity, we can't tip our hand. Keep the bluff up, until we figure out how to fight. Without a full knowledge set of everything, it is dangerous to touch the pot. We don't see a stove, but that doesn't mean it isn't hot.

This kind of fearful attitude saddens me. I can imagine the generals in their bunkers saying exactly that, people with a militant mind set treating ET as invaders and making the decision to keep this from the populace, i.e.: From us. That's exactly what proponents of Disclosure regard as immoral and unethical. You do not have the right to keep something this important from the wrold's citizens. It is a misuse of power. Several people here have mentioned greed and power as reasons Disclosure has not happened, and this is a perfect example of what they are talking about.

The government with all it's countless bureaucracies could fear disclosure still based on the reaction of that War of the Worlds LARP from the 30's, people actually panicked.

"Perhaps as many as a million radio listeners believed that a real Martian invasion was underway. Panic broke out across the country. In New Jersey, terrified civilians jammed highways seeking to escape the alien marauders. People begged police for gas masks to save them from the toxic gas and asked electric companies to turn off the power so that the Martians wouldn’t see their lights. One woman ran into an Indianapolis church where evening services were being held and yelled, “New York has been destroyed! It’s the end of the world! Go home and prepare to die!”
www.history.com...

Personally I like to think extra terrestrials are actually human time travelers from the distant future though,travelling through time seems just as plausible to me as the idea of beings somehow travelling million or billions of light years through space. Great post OP thank you.

originally posted by: 99problems
The government with all it's countless bureaucracies could fear disclosure still based on the reaction of that War of the Worlds LARP from the 30's, people actually panicked.

If that's the case, then they're double dumb, because there was no big panic. There were some calls made to the police, but the rest was pure Hollywood hokum. Orson Welles was pretty good at cranking the old hype machine.

That being said, I've played the possible reactions to a real, true nuts and bolts alien mass appearance over in my head, and what happens is: 1) shock and amazement, 2) a gradual attempt to return to work and everyday life because we gotta live our lives, then 3) a kind of slow philosophical ripple in every human activity on Earth that fairly rapidly destroys civilization as we know it.

Of course, a lot of that would depend on how close the aliens are. A transmission picked up from a star 10,000 light years away would be pretty benign. Aliens creeping around everyone's bedroom at night would be horrifying.

But, as I've said, maybe they've already invaded Twilight Zone style, not in a dimension of light and sound, but of mind.

a reply to: blueman12

Why does the human race need disclosure to grow?

Again, why do you need the government of all things to tell you what is real?

Everyime a new spices is discovered, you need the government to disclose its existence to believe?

Is there not a group of extraterrestrial biologists look for extraterrestrial life?

Is there not armies of grass roots ufologists?

They cannnot produce credible evidence of human sized extraterrestrials flying large space craft into the earth’s atmosphere, and interacting with the environment. Extraterrestrial that eat, pooop, breathe, have DNA. Space craft the emit some form of propulsion. That use some type of fuel.

Why do you need disclosure? I don’t need disclosure to know extraterrestrials exist. There is just no credible evidence that extraterrestrials communicate from Star to Star. There is no physical evidence extraterrestrials have covered the vast distances of Space.

Biologists can find new species living in water by just taking a water sample and analyzing the DNA it contains.

But you cannot cite evidence of large biological creatures flying large Starships into Earth’s atmosphere, and interacting with governments?

Disclosure is a cop out. A slap in the face of ufologists. I guess by proxy you are saying ufologists have produced no credible evidence....

a reply to: neutronflux

There has been vast amounts of evidence throughout the ages, but governments with the power and money have all the resources to quash it. Just take the farce of project blue book, was designed to fail from the start, all the findings even the ones that were dismissed they still had a few hundred they could not have any type of answer for. It only take one to prove they are real! they had hundreds in a failed flawed inquiry.

a reply to: myss427

UFO does no mean intelligent piloted interstellar space craft.

How does government quash any individual research, or any attempt from extraterrestrials to interact with the general public?

Again, disclosure is a slap in the face of countless publications, documentaries, books, personal accounts concerning extraterrestrial visitation. Or reveals the depths of exploitation by those that con the UFO community, and how ufologists killed their own credibility. If these items that are freely published cannot stand on their own merit, then there is no credible proof of visitation.

Disclosure is a straw man argument and a cop out. Why do you need government to define reality, or government confirmation for your beliefs?

Corrupt governments are the gatekeepers to a more enlightened spices that could interact with anyone they choose? What enlightened spices would interact with corrupt government if they offered a better way of life? Why would they hide their enlightenment?

Then you have the whole problem how are they secretly interacting? Secret ET phones? Spaceship delivery?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: DOACSTribe

I love a good conspiracy as much as the next man but breakaway civilizations really are the stuff of fiction.

It's not what i actually know, or what i have actually verified, its what science has proven and what common sense dictates.

Our Moon is not hollow, neither is our Earth, both proven by scientific study!

As to who is in control?

Same people it always has been aka the banking houses and cartels, the corporations and the military-industrial complex aka "They".

Break it down as much as you wish, but no need for Aliens or hidden civilizations. As agenda, class war, religious intolerance and our own Goddard penchant for self-destruction are all that's really required for these people to retain control.

How can you say breakaway societies are science fiction? It can be argued America is a breakaway society to an extent. Lets take any indigenous tribe who still live natural and compare them to what America has? America has knowledge and tech that indigenous tribe can barely imagine! America is located on land that primitive indigenous peoples can't reach easily. America can fly an F-16 over that tribe and the tribe would be dumbfounded.

Simply apply that metric to a smaller group of people who may have found things beneath Egypt and kept them for themselves. They may have found tech which built the pyramids, etc.

You base your knowledge on what science has proven, but who controls our approach to science? If it's as I suspect, a breakaway society controls our entire approach to science. They would relegate us to grade school science while they are utilizing graduate school science.

How do WE know what the Moon or Earth is or isn't? We don't! We're taking the word of institution.

originally posted by: neutronflux
Corrupt governments are the gatekeepers to a more enlightened spices that could interact with anyone they choose? What enlightened spices would interact with corrupt government if they offered a better way of life? Why would they hide their enlightenment?

Then you have the whole problem how are they secretly interacting? Secret ET phones? Spaceship delivery?

If there were an alien presence which were truly superior to us, they would not allow themselves to be hidden away from the masses by government. Unless they have nefarious reasons...and quite frankly aren't that superior to us. Do human exterminators only communicate with the queen termite or ant? Heck no! They go in and do as they want, when they want, not caring what termite or ant witness.

You can apply that to what ever level intelligence a organism on this planet have, when we decide to hunt or displace them, we do not only seek out the alpha and have diplomatic relations with them. We see them as lesser organisms and do as we like.

The situation sounds more like collusion and a superior species would have no need to collude.

The secrecy is as I suggest, these are breakaway societies that our governments are communicating with and hoping to get a pat on the head from and possibly a seat at the table. These are humans, or at the least started out as humans.

a reply to: DOACSTribe

What proof is there of a hidden group that is consuming power, distributing power, has financial resources, farming food, communicating, processing their waste, manufacturing new technologies, gathering resources to produce new technologies?

You taking ten , 100, 1000’s, tens of thousands of individuals? And not one detectable footprint by them?

I've followed this subject for decades and the fact that we still don't have a definitive answer could be due to two main concerns. 1st if indeed the government knows a lot more than their telling, it could be that they are very familiar with the subject, but basically know their in over their heads and have no answer to how to deal with it.

The second reason could be they know all too well what the intent of any visitors really are and releasing that information to the general public would cause mass panic. IMO.

My thoughts.

From my understanding the elite of the past always new there were worlds outside of the ones the common people lived in. Meaning the new world of the Americas or simply the areas they were currently occupying. They used this knowledge and all other knowledge as power to control their people. When reading and writing came around the people that mastered it were in control. They made money off of this power and used it to become wealthy and powerful. They eventually had to teach others to the point that reading and writing were no longer the power tools they once were.

These people discovered the new world and used the resources from that new world to control their people and get rich. when it was no longer feasible to use the new world for power and control they let it become common knowledge so that everyone could use it. It was common knowledge of the day by the elite that there was a new world with a lot of resources. The world was going through a economic down turn at the time and it was determined that a 'new world' would help them get out of it.

There is a new world again if you will beyond this planet and it seems to be common knowledge among the elite that it is there and they are using that for knowledge and power once again. When the world goes through another disastrous economic downturn they will position themselves to reveal the next new world and take advantage of that.

They will never admit that they always new it was there and they were using it all along they will just be in a good position to profit from it.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: blueman12

Why does the human race need disclosure to grow? Again, why do you need the government of all things to tell you what is real? Everyime a new spices is discovered, you need the government to disclose its existence to believe? Is there not a group of extraterrestrial biologists look for extraterrestrial life? Is there not armies of grass roots ufologists?

We've covered this issue already, in depth, several times. Why it is still coming up is a mystery. The issue is not what you think you know, or what some group maintains is Reality. If that's the level of your proof and the limit to your curiosity, by all means listen to Steven Greer or any other pundit who thinks he has it all figured out and be content. But even people who feel they have an in-depth knowledge of the issue are calling for government Disclosure. Using your reasoning, why should they even bother? After all, they already know and who needs government to tell them that?

It is because the suspicion is that government, or more correctly, elements within the government and even private industry, have amassed a great deal of knowledge and information which, if disclosed, could transform our lives and solve some of our most serious problems. If we have already back-engineered anti-grav propulsion, for example, why do we continue to light off rockets to put satellites into space? If we actually can "take ET home," why are we spending billions to take a very slow trip to Mars? It's a waste of resources. Frankly, I don't think this can be explained by the usual appeal to power and greed. I suspect the Culture of Secrecy is terribly difficult to unravel and also, that this is an immoral and unethical situation. Proponents of secrecy have no right to withhold this information. It's not for them to decide for the rest of us. And I am of the opinion that this withheld information contains some of the most transformative ideas we have ever heard. In terms of allowing "us to grow," it's a matter of staying in the Dark Ages versus Enlightenment. We may not actually need Disclosure to grow, but it has the potential of providing us an enormous boost.

a reply to: DOACSTribe

Now you wish to argue definitions?

Think we are all perfectly aware as to what constitutes a breakaway civilization in the context of this thread.

Like i said, mate the logistics alone would make such an endeavor almost an impossibility precluding the premise that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic of course.

The bankers, military industrial complex, and corporations are a form of a breakaway class of people, but not a civilization.

We know what the Moon or Earth is or isn't because of science, mathematics, and even direct contact and observation. FACT!