The Problem with Disclosure; why the government and insiders are afraid to tell us what is going on

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: chunder
a reply to: schuyler

Maybe the type of disclosure that most people seem to have in mind is as likely to come from the Catholic church as it is a Govt, or actually that in effect it has already occurred, that it is up to each individual to obtain definitive proof and that was the point of the whole game anyway !

Very good point. It may be that other organizations have a great deal of knowledge they ave kept hidden themselves. The Vatican has a very big basement which could be holding some "treasures" we've never considered.

originally posted by: Harte
Bemoaning the lack of disclosure from governments presupposes that those governments actually know something about UFOs (other than "yeah, we've faked a bunch of them") and are keeping it secret.

This possibility cannot be ruled out and must be a major part in the consideration of this so-called "disclosure problem."

Granted. The whole idea of "Disclosure" begs the question that there is something to disclose. The reason I am inclined to believe it is the great number of witnesses who have come forward. Quite frankly, in my opinion some of them are complete bozos. Dan Burisch comes to mind. Also, it's quite obvious some of them are the fabled disinfo agents. I am loathe to say that except that in some cases they've admitted it, e.g. Richart Doty. But there are dozens, if not hundreds of folks that I simply do not believe are nutcases who have discussed parts of this openly. IN that sense I suppose you really could say 'Disclosure has happened' and most people simply do not know it.

But just knowing they are here is not really enough. The hints are that there is sufficient technology to save the planet and travel to the stars. So let's get cracking! we're wasting precious time if these guys are holding out on us.

Yes, lots and lots of people have claimed to have seen something.

But that doesn't mean that any government knows more about the subject than they've told us.

I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. My bad. Lots of witnesses are saying they have been involved in the government cover up and seen something or participated in disinformation while working with the government. I wasn't thinking of your average "witness" walking down the street. I think there are a sufficient number of these witnesses to point to a cover-up. I really think we're well beyond the "Prove they know something" stage.

Not me.
But this isn't really my area.

Harte

originally posted by: schuyler
The Problem with Disclosure

Why the government and insiders are afraid to tell us what is really going on

Ver. 1.0

By: Michael Schuyler

I. Introduction

“Disclosure” is typically defined as the governments of the world telling the populace what they know about UFOs, particularly the government of the United States. The suspicion is that the government has retrieved data, including actual UFOs, attempted re-engineering UFOs themselves, derived technologies from this knowledge, and even signed treaties with aliens in a so-called “shadow government’ that operates in a maze of secrecy outside the oversight and authority of elected governments.
snip, snip, snip!

The above is pure bs. You don't have one iota of evidence. The government is not under pressure by any one individual, organization, or other governments to reveal anything to anyone. Suspicion cannot replace fact, truth, evidence. No one has retrieved anything. Not data, not actual craft, there's been no "re-engineering", there's no derived knowledge, there are no aliens. A shadow government, yes. But it's not involved in your pet theories.

a reply to: Lathroper

That sounds like a theory too, of course.

originally posted by: schuyler
I believe the idea of a "breakaway civilization" originally came from the writings of Richard Dolan. It is obvious hyperbole that some people have taken literally.

And "breakaway civilization" doesn't mean anything. It is a worthless phrase. And since you say Richard Dolan may have created it it stands to reason that it's meaningless.

originally posted by: Lathroper

originally posted by: schuyler
The Problem with Disclosure

Why the government and insiders are afraid to tell us what is really going on

Ver. 1.0

By: Michael Schuyler

I. Introduction

“Disclosure” is typically defined as the governments of the world telling the populace what they know about UFOs, particularly the government of the United States. The suspicion is that the government has retrieved data, including actual UFOs, attempted re-engineering UFOs themselves, derived technologies from this knowledge, and even signed treaties with aliens in a so-called “shadow government’ that operates in a maze of secrecy outside the oversight and authority of elected governments.
snip, snip, snip!

The above is pure bs. Y

I really appreciate knowledgeable people who have obviously spent a great deal of time analyzing the subject contributing to the ideas presented here in the last ten pages. You have not demonstrated that you know ANYTHING about the subject. In fact, there is no evidence you even read the opening posts here. Your comments stand on their own and display your knowledge well enough. You're only embarrassing yourself.

a reply to: schuyler

yes good points. They avoid disclosure because definite riots would occur.many would attempt to contact the aliens. i also think there is more difficult things to explain to us, like our origin that, which looking at the tech, aliens were
A. involved with
B. witnessed it
It would be hard, like telling your baby it's not yours and reveal it's real mother, which to it, is complete stranger. this sets off a huge alarm in the gov, as it would leave nothing to rule.

a reply to: Lathroper

i rlly think we are a break off civilization. it fills in alot of gaps. but also opens more. the main one is WHY? what could possibly happen for this to happen?

I don't really agree with the "breakaway civilization" meme either. It makes no sense to me. If a few thousand people have secret knowledge they are not disclosing, that doesn't constitute a "civilization" in any conventional sense of the term.

I also doubt very much that "ET" had anything much to do with either our origin or our evolution. That is a persistent theme in ET lore that is not expressly Disclosure related, so it's kind of an aside to our issue. I see no evidence, The paleontological record is growing more and more clear and there really is no need to invoke some sort of outside influence. There isn't any kind of "gap" or "missing link" that needs explaining. The whole idea was a 19th century misunderstanding based on ignorance in the first place.

originally posted by: dashen
Because they're eating us dude
And there's nothing you can do about it. Probably wouldn't sit well with a few people. Sweet dreams everyone.

Oh great, its one of those things where the forest/cave/space, etc monster will let the villagers live in peace only if they sacrifice some of their own people once in a while to feed the monster?

a reply to: Lathroper

He said THE SUSPICION is...

He never said there was evidence.

Sometimes, in order to have a discussion about something you have to have agreed upon hypotheticals.

The US has war plans to invade Canada. There is no evidence that Canada will be a danger to the US in the near future. But they still had those hypothetical conversations and made those plans, amd those plans are all updated regularly.

But I guess you would waltz on in and tell them how stupid they are for discussing something for which there is zero evidence. Maybe you should be the one running the military?

Knowledge of ET visitation would be worldwide. It wouldn't be exclusive to alien species traveling in U.S. airspace or crashing on government property. It would have to be a mass cover up with other countries working in cahoots with each other. The more people involved the harder it is to keep a secret. In particular other countries and the struggle for power it would create.

Once the door is opened and the interstellar travel wall is knocked down with a single visiting ET species, many other species could be visiting. Every UFO sighting report through MUFON, for example, now becomes a threat to expose this great government "secret." The threat of another not-so-friendly ET species visiting becomes real as well. Yet there's no outward concern or involvement by this threat? The deeper you think about it, the more nonsensical this UFO/alien disclosure becomes. On the surface hidden ET evidence and disclosure theory works out great, especially for Ufologists or those with an agenda. But think deeper and beyond that and logically it falls apart.

It's just another in a line of excuses created to keep the UFO/alien tale alive. Created many times for people that do little to no research for themselves and rely on what "experts" feed them. Disclosure and visiting ET both share the lack of evidence to substantiate the claim but those eager to still believe it.

I personally find the breakaway civilization theory very plausible. Especially when you consider the missions trillions that disappeared in to the DOD hole.

I don't believe they would be able build faster than light ships and are leaving us behind or anything, but I think they could be spending big sums on new technologies that could be used for the big "one world government" push after world war III is over.

We are already spending more than the next top 7 nations combined on military, not sure what the additional trillions could possibly do to continue the dominance unless there was an end game of sorts.

I think its possible that Allen Dulles and the folks behind the folks of central banking have had this planned out for decades. We pretty much only go to war with countries that resist central banking and have nationalistic/protectionsist policies. The launch of crypto currencies is playing a big part. The next financial crumble could be another big step towards their goal.

It could be that UFOs are really just a distraction from the larger con in play.

I've made a thread about this a while ago:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I still think that the issue with disclosure is very varied.

The reasons for not telling anyone are pretty numerous, to name a few:

Compartmentalization. It's not that the govt knows everything across its entire structure. UFO and extraterrestial issues might be a domain of a very close-knit, very compartmentalized group, of which every member still doesn't see the wholepicture. I'd wager a bet that about 99,99% of US Government (as a whole, that is armed forces, politicians, administrative people) doesn't know jack squat about any aliens.

Ridicule. Yes, government ridicules its own people for bringing up UFO issue. It's more or less a black hole. More often than not, servicemen, politicians and administrative people face problems at work, discharge or other unpleasantries. Not all of them, not everywhere - but the issue is still frowned upon at best and grounds for some job problems at worst. Nobody wants to rock their boat, just swim to the shore of retirement. Then there's also total lack of interest, you can report everything you want to every superior. Nobody will seemingly care.

Possible dark secret. We don't know what govt knows. We don't know what they concluded about aliens and UFOs. Maybe the findings are so bizarre or so traumatic that showing them will really topple everything the govt has so precariously worked for. Long story short, it might cause such tremendous social issues that the United States or maybe entire world will fall apart. Followed by God knows what types of shenanigans. To quote The Stand: Things fall apart. The center does not hold. They fear that and maybe the people in charge of UFO related things really care but don't know what do do so they let the matter rest until it bursts or resolves itself in this or that way. Not everyone in the govt is evil. They are normal people.

Opposition from within. Yes, what makes you think that every branch and service of the govt will welcome any disclosure? What if there's a strife or could be one when someone from some super black department says "guys, here's the sitrep and it's not gonna be nice. You might not beleive it, but....". What makes you think that such a super deep department can get thru to Congress, the President, and convince them? And what if there are warring factions within the govt who actively fight against disclosure? It's not that easy. If something is buried deep enough, it's not easy to dig it up. Sometimes it's even impossible without destroying everything that rests atop of it.

Lack of data. It might be also that the govt really has nothing of substance or maybe they have enough to cause societal problems if presented to the populace but not enough to warrant such problems. The prize might not be wirth the play. They might be still trying to get a grip on the situation. If aliens can deceive average Joe and Jane, you think they can't fool US Government? What if something passed on as disclosure is a carefully presented psyop package from the aliens engineered to get a specialized response and shape the world and relations between us and them in the way they want it to be?

It's so easy to go "# man, they know and they're not telling us". But the government is much more than one or two men sitting in a dark room making tough speeches. It's a lumbering behemoth. And the problem might be buried so deep, be so complicated and so difficult to tell that it might stay that way forever.

originally posted by: Jelonek
I've made a thread about this a while ago:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I still think that the issue with disclosure is very varied.

The reasons for not telling anyone are pretty numerous, to name a few:

Compartmentalization... [yes, compulsory]
Ridicule... [yes, explicitly]
Possible dark secret... [maybe, I hope not (but "hope" is not a very good survival strategy)]
Opposition from within... [yes, unequivocally]
Lack of data... [yes, in degrees]

...And the problem might be buried so deep, be so complicated and so difficult to tell that it might stay that way forever.

Nice summary, Jelonek. [emphasis mine]

There are morsels of truth here. But which ones? Even if a hybrid collection within just 4-of-5 in your list probably means the rest of us may perpetually be kept from the truth. Is that right?

I'm beginning to think some others may not think so...

a reply to: schuyler

These “aliens” if real are not hiding.

In fact, I think they may be deliberately showing themselves to us for some reason.

You also make the very valid point; we aren’t really bereft of information regarding this phenomenon—actually we may be overloaded.


Also, I’ve always said disclosure may be very problematic for the mental well-being of many people, of course depending on what is disclosed.


It is true those raging for disclosure are presuming there is a disclosure of any substantial reality other than the government just telling us what we already know.

I don't think public disclosure would ever happen unless we were under attack and being exterminated. It would be too late for any preparations or panicking. Otherwise the government would be liable legally for any panicking and chaos. Creating more trouble, expense, and effort on their part. Older people and children don't need to feel scared and destabilized. Stability is what keeps the world working. So anyone wanting disclosure just needs to give it to themselves through research education, a sighting, or just by saying "Okay it's happening out there in our universe, minute by minute. We are not the only conscious beings." We are not the only conscious beings on our planet... take a look at all the life here. So why do people have a hard time with this concept. Human beings are so narcissistic and afraid of the unknown. Let's embrace the curiosity in life! The Math numbers point to a vast number of potential life forms in the universe.

originally posted by: Willtell
These “aliens” if real are not hiding.
In fact, I think they may be deliberately showing themselves to us for some reason.

True-true. Considering all the people who have seen legitimate UFOs, these aliens are terrible at remaining unseen. The only things they're really good at are vanishing and leaving few if any physical traces.

Otherwise, it's ridiculous how often they've been seen.

originally posted by: frugal
The Math numbers point to a vast number of potential life forms in the universe.

Or none. That's the way the math really works out. A lot, few, or none. Turn that in on your math exam and see what grade you get.

a reply to: Lathroper

[ No one has retrieved anything. Not data,]

I wouldn't be so quick to assume on the 'data' part.

I have more reason to believe your statement is false, than correct.

Even if a hybrid collection within just 4-of-5 in your list probably means the rest of us may perpetually be kept from the truth. Is that right?

You know, I do believe that such monumental truths sometimes come to light on their own. I am sure they researched it; they had to. Any sort of anomalous aerial activity in any country's airspace is prime trigger for immediate military investigation followed by typical profiling: who it might be, where do they come from, what capability do they have and what intentions do they possess. Followed by quick assessment of our own capability and adjustment of it by weapons systems/strategy/tactics/etc programs if need be.

There are numerous clues that such elaboration and analysis took place, probably in 40's and 50's. What did they really find out - we don't know. Because their adopted official stance - that the AF has no interest in researching UFOs is very telling. One thing one has to employ while reading official govt information is not the things they say, but what they don't. In this case the Air Force and by extension the U.S. Government never denied the existence of UFOs. Only that the phenomena does not interest them. Is it true? I think not. And subsequent decades probably reinforced or restarted the covert research.

Will we ever know? That depends on how you constitute the knowing. One might say that the public is already accustomed to the presence of space aliens and have you ever wondered why the image of alien grey type is the ubiqutous archetype of alien? there's a chance that someone, somewhere, is slipping clues into the mainstream - bit by bit. So when the truth - whatever we consider it to be - becomes known, the shock will be small or non-existent.