The Problem with Disclosure; why the government and insiders are afraid to tell us what is going on

a reply to: schuyler

Heaven/hell is even more silly than IDH or ETH, a lot more silly.

I've at times suspected there is something terrible that we don't know about this reality. One thing I agree with is that the reason for secrecy is more than just ETH or IDH. It may be something outrageous such as they feed on us, physically or mentally. Many thousands of unexplained disappearances each year that are never solved. Maybe they can control us like puppets if so desired. What if there is really no such thing as insanity or psychosis and it has nothing to do with the person dealing with it? It may be that we are prisoners within a simulation and an even more terrible and difficult reality awaits our return to the outside. Now those are things that would scare the hell out of me.

originally posted by: spacemanjupiter
I've at times suspected there is something terrible that we don't know about this reality. One thing I agree with is that the reason for secrecy is more than just ETH or IDH. It may be something outrageous such as they feed on us, physically or mentally.

How about this? None of us are actually a singular person, but rather we're made up of a mish-mash of thousands of smaller individual chunks that together mimic what we understand to be a "personality." And these chunks don't even properly live in our reality, but rather have attached themselves to people as a kind of mental conveyance for amusement.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Willtell
These “aliens” if real are not hiding.
In fact, I think they may be deliberately showing themselves to us for some reason.

True-true. Considering all the people who have seen legitimate UFOs, these aliens are terrible at remaining unseen. The only things they're really good at are vanishing and leaving few if any physical traces.

Otherwise, it's ridiculous how often they've been seen.

I don’t know whether they're just showing off but it's interesting to think about WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE THEY DOING?

My guess is that one thing they're doing the is hanging around to catch those WMDs when they start flying around.

originally posted by: spacemanjupiter
a reply to: schuyler

Heaven/hell is even more silly than IDH or ETH, a lot more silly.

They're not really comparable at all. Heaven and Hell are religious concepts, of course, and in Christianity are used as the carrot and stick to force human behavior. I would think most people understand that well enough. ETH and IDH are theories which attempt to explain the presence of ET. That idea is not particularly difficult either. But the idea that ET is here to feed on us is the silliest of all. “V” wasn’t even very good science fiction. My contention is that the IDH/ETH is an insufficient reason for preventing Disclosure.

Indeed, the ETH is expected and has been for at least 70 years, nearly three generations. If ET has not been here, well, then, we’ve been out there along with Captains Kirk and Janeway. The Vatican is on board, and I remember reading that a few Imams have no fundamental problem with the idea either. I’ve enumerated several reasons why the government has the No-Disclosure stance and have read several more here. Grant Cameron, author of “Managing Magic; the government’s UFO Disclosure Plan” lists 64 reasons why Disclosure hasn’t happened.

They’re all silly. So where’s the beef?

The answer is that Reality must be far different than we have imagined. ET knows this, and if we “Disclose” the presence of ET, part of the explanation involves where they are from and what they are doing here. The answer to those questions is what the problem is. ET by himself is not. The answer must be an existential threat. The answer must question the entire scientific paradigm AND the religious paradigm of the world’s biggest religions. Both will have to take a hit. Now, what could that be?

Heaven and Hell, the Garden of Eden, even the tale of Noah are all metaphors. They tell stories to pre-literate people. They are simplistic. Taking them literally is simplistic. Calling them silly is also simplistic. You need to get beyond the metaphor in an attempt to figure out what the issues are. It’s one of those Plato’s Cave scenarios where you are trying to interpret two-dimensional shadows to understand what is outside the cave.

The basic idea that is so bothersome is this: We really do have what amounts to souls. When we die we leave our earthly bodies behind and our souls are in the next realm. Religious people think this realm constitutes Heaven where they will go, condemning other people, but never themselves, to Hell. Now remember that Heaven and Hell are silly and simplistic. The next “Realm,” if you will, is much more complex, and its Truths are much more mind-blowing than a simplistic belief that, for example, “Jesus is Lord,” or “72 Virgins” is your reward.

The Scientific Establishment, of course, thinks all this is silly. To a materialist Science is God in that Science will eventually be able to explain everything without reference to spirits and silly beliefs. Many of you are in this category. You scoff and cry BS pretty much a priori without considering the issue at all deeply. The fact is that’s the reality of our culture. Those are the belief levels we espouse as a group, and most of us are unwilling to consider that we might all of us be very very wrong about the fundamental structure of Reality.

Now along comes ET and says, “You guys are all wrong. You have souls. When you die you go to the next realm where you will learn the Truth of all this, and most all of you will reincarnate and go through this stuff again and again, and by the way, we’re the managers of this little project and are able to traverse these realms at will. And you don’t have a choice in the matter. In other words, welcome your new overlords."

I’m thinking that kind of revelation wouldn’t go over too well. The Scientific Establishment would be shaken to its very core. It turns out the religions they all hate and despise were closer to the truth than they were. And the religions would have to put a new spin on things once they found out their Heaven and Hell schtick was, well, silly. Plus we’ve got these ET guys who can perform what amounts to magic and are capable of kicking our butts back to the stone age if they really wanted.

So, yeah. No wonder the government does not want to Disclose. In this context, it makes sense.

a reply to: schuyler

The problem with all this “certainty” of science is that some things have to be experienced, not merely known by theory.

An analogy is a puberty. We can explain it intellectually but until you experience those hormones and the resulting chemical reactions you are ignorant basically.

Science presumes all knowledge is one-dimensional and empirically that’s just not the case.

The reason some forms of knowledge are primarily experiential to be useful is that they have to do with internal dynamics of the human being...

The ETH/IDH theory, for instance, is something that is apparently relevant to the above postulation.

It has to be experienced to be known just like puberty.

really good post!!



if you make the assumption, that ETs/UFOs are real and that "they" are hiding them or something. the big question is why?
and how?

maybe in the 50s, 60s even 70s maybe people couldnt accept it, but in 2018?

How about this? None of us are actually a singular person

So that's why I often feel conflicted inside!

Well if the ufo phenemon was an actual threat, it would be 911 times a 1000 if ample evidence were, and yet, you got supposed inferno beleiving Satanists believing in fairies and wood elves in Satan stead.

I beleive the government acknowledge s it, in the most subtle of ways, even though it never direct.

However, the day we actually understand these thing or come close to them, I think it will go back to the deepest parts from wherever it came from...never to be seen for...a few thousands years or more.

I think they have nothing to disclose. I believe that they are trying to figure this all out themselves. I base this on interviews I have heard with scientists and ex-officials on the topic but also an event near where I used to live, where a UFO crash occurred and was witnessed by many people who lived nearby (eastern Canada.) The military came in, inspected the lake it landed in, and left. Many people saw or heard the UFO hit the water, but no one saw the military carrying a UFO (or parts of a UFO) out of the water. My opinion = they found nothing because there was nothing there to find. These forms, whatever they are, can take on many different solid forms, impact our environment, then vanish. Physical evidence may sometimes remain (be it biological or technological,) but ultimately the source is unknown by our logic and science. For our officials to admit this, they would be admitting to something both extraordinary and unknown, something neither science or religion can explain, something that would spark a great, great many questions and no answers, not now and maybe never.

Nice opinion piece.

Ghosts.
Shadowbeings.
Tall men.
Yeti.
Demons.

All part of the same system.

level 1 - stones, earth, minerals, single celled life
level 2 - insects, plants, multi cellular microscopic and miniature life, crustaceans, shellfish
level 3 - mammals, reptiles, birds, fish.....etc.
level 4 - Sentient beings - Humans, Whales, Dolphins
level 5 - Dimensionally aware beings - yeti, Tall men, Shadow beings, Insect people, Grey's, most other advanced alien species both good and bad
level 6 - Recycling and sorting, evaluation of spirit - Ghosts
Level 7 - Higher state universally aware beings (Don't wanna say it cause it's flawed...but yes...kind of Angels but none of which appeared in the bible, that I can tell, except maybe the soul placed into Mary's womb if that story is even true)
Level 8 - Universal consciousness, total unity with energy

Please note. from level 5 and lower these beings must feed. The most nutrition both spiritually and physically is by eating from the level below or the same level.

Are some living extradimensionally here, yes. Are some visiting interdimensionally, yes. Are some visiting extra-terrestrially, yes. Space travel is lengthy without the use of interdimensional travel. It's a simple matter for most to change spacetime into timespace using a specific harmonic frequency relating to the location of the portal.

Those that live here, but in the extradimension / upsidedown / Monsters Inc land cannot immediately close a portal when it opens, because they are simply creating a tear which slowly repairs itself over time. If it stays open for long enough sometimes other things drop through (Yeti, Insect people).

They have been here before we were, this is true. They had a hand in our evolution, this is true. They did not evolve with this planet, this is true. The establishment of agriculture to induce overpopulation to provide a viable workforce and food source was down to one of the alien players. The laws of nature dictated that we were only ever meant to be hunter gatherers living in balance with the planet, but clearly there is an imbalance. They showed us 'magic' / technology. Showed us our 'potential' while seemingly diverting us away from our real potential at a level above and beyond what they are ever capable of existing in.

We're all chewing the fat here. That's my take. Is it real, or true?

Bees?

ETH/IDH/simulation all make sense to some degree.
But it seems none of them really fits what is experienced.

ETH - Why all the crazy high strangeness encounters?

IDH - Why are ships seen flying out of the atmosphere and into the ocean?

Simulation - Why saucers/aliens/abductions in the first place? Couldnt you alter the simulation unseen?

Reality might be something in between, or a combination, or something else entirely.

originally posted by: MissSmartypants
a reply to: schuyler

The IDH reminds me of HiddenHands famous thread Window of Opportunity. And perhaps the IDs aren't so bad...afterall we've certainly managed to be fruitful and multiply.

*That* was an epic thread.

I remember being very skeptical at first, but the longer it went the more sense he made until, at the end - I was fully on-board with it.

I still think of it from time to time and wonder who and where he is...

I'll post a link to that thread below for the benefit of newer members who may not have heard about it or would simply like an opportinty to read one of the best threads on ATS. See below.

Window of Opportunity

a reply to: LightAssassin

This grid reads more like a dungeons and dragons game. Is there a source to this logic?

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: schuyler

Then why aren't we shattered with your post?

If it's one specific religious view that gets proven or dis-proven, it would shatter us?

Because (a) You don't believe it. It's just an idea. And (b) It's not just one specific religion that would be disproved. It would be ALL of them including the basic ideas science holds dear (the "religion" of science.) No more "aliens from space" at all. They are here, in force, and you can't do anything about it. Reality is NOWHERE NEAR what you thought it was. The entire idea of who you are and what your place in the Universe actually is would be turned upside down. Not only is the Universe far different than you imagined, YOU are far different than you imagined.

The basic idea here is that ETs from space is not a big deal. It's what we expect and what we are most familiar with. If a UFO landed on the White House lawn, we'd say, "It's about time" because that's what we expect. If the alien equivalent of the USS Enterprise were orbiting the Earth with the occupants debating the Prime Directive, we'd just change the channel.

So given that it is not a big deal, why, then, no disclosure? Logically speaking, it could be that there is nothing to disclose at all, but people here, especially, are not likely to believe that and, in any case, if that's true there's nothing more to discuss. The operative assumption here, obviously, is that there IS something to disclose. So why not just do it? ET from space is no big deal. Religions can deal with it, Science expects it, and we've all grown up with the idea. The reason has to be because "The Truth" must be devastating to our assumptions and cut to core of our existence, something that would be extremely contrary to our view of capital-R Reality and something we did not at all expect. What I have presented fits the facts as we know them. It gives a reason why Disclosure has not happened.

Some of the best paragraphs on disclosure anywhere.

For me personally, when I discovered that religion (all religion) was wrong, I was shunned on a level that's just scary.
I had Sunday schools of little girls trolling the neighborhood looking for me to "save me". (or something of that sort,
I never got the full story).

When I realized that spirituality was a sham, I had terrible blowback as a result.

When i learned the 'nature of the soul', the blowback almost killed me. I was so drained
and weakened, it took about 7 years to regain even a portion of my health.

When I stopped promoting the IDH party line, the blowback, on multiple levels was
staggering.

"Truth" on Earth has always been ugly and people want to deny it at all costs.

I mean, just truth about politics and corporations say... totally ugly.. you don't
even have to get into metaphysics.

Why people INSIST that they will live for endless time, coddled by an all-powerful
entity.. or that benevolent aliens are real and just waiting to make their life
a paradise..

why people.. think this is rational is a real head scritch.

When a gopher runs across the street, they are often hit by a car and squished.

That's pretty basic.

But nobody wants to believe in basic.

And IF there are "paranormal" things happening on Earth, (seems quite likely),
that does not mean it's all puppy dogs and butterflies... or that it's proof
of someone's religion (not true either).

logically it's much more likely to be like the story of mr. squirrel who tried to
cross the road with "faith" but not skill.

All these sorts of subjects are mainly just a mirror for human insecurities,
and external actors of various types (military industrial complex say)
are well versed in controlling the great unwashed masses.

Kev

a reply to: schuyler

They’re all silly. So where’s the beef? The answer is that Reality must be far different than we have imagined.

Yup.

I'm slightly surprised that you haven't brought up Buddhism or Shamanism.
They are extremely different than religion.

Now of course you can turn Buddhism and shamanism INTO a religion..
but at least initially they were completely different.

At the risk of oversimplifying, the original concept of Buddhism seemed
to me, to be that yes.. there is a "soul" living in you,but it's temporary
and it's your job to get rid of it--- and when you do, you are enlightened
and are in contact with "reality".

In shamanism, one spirit is much the same as another.. they come.. they
go... a shaman's "soul" wouldn't be much different than any other spirit..
not even necessarily any more important.

This whole obsession with "souls" has caused more harm to the world..
killed more millions.. caused more intense suffering than almost any
single concept in the world..

but I concur with you... the 'secret' about "that" is indeed directly
linked to "real disclosure".

Which won't happen.

Remember Mr. Squirrel. You can't control a society that is entirely rational
and informed.

Kev

Mankind has a pretty high opinion of itself for not even being able to stop self destructing.

I doubt if anyone could even understand the nature of reality if it smacked em in the face.

But it looks like Tom Delonge and the To The Stars project might be getting close...or maybe at skinwalker ranch...

originally posted by: olaru12
Mankind has a pretty high opinion of itself for not even being able to stop self destructing.

We haven't self-destructed yet. And depending on your point of view, our ability to create AI "offspring" and manipulate our own genetics to create new quasi-humans is a pretty good demonstration of our awesomeness. Maybe we earned that high opinion of ourselves. You don't see friggin' cuttlefish building machines that can fly to Mars. Lazy cephalopods!

a reply to: schuyler


I witnessed witness intimidation and its no surprise to me how they keep a lid on things. Would say its as bad as organized crime intimidation.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Oh the human race will probably survive: overall.

But what survives won't be human by today's standards.

And only ultra rich people will survive.

Many years ago, I was a member of a minor cult.. not the main
one I spent 30 years in..

well this cult had the view, that the earth was just an egg yolk,
whose purpose was for humans to gorge themselves on, and
destroy, to give them a 10% chance to "ascend" and escape
the virulent polluted mess they had created.

And that this was "good".

I think that a lot of people out there would agree with some variant
of what you are saying.

And...

that's why we teeter on absolute collapse.

Will humans "make it"?

Maybe.

But they won't be humans by that time.

Kev

It's not my place to say whether this approach is "good or bad".
Its the future though.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: schuyler


I witnessed witness intimidation and its no surprise to me how they keep a lid on things. Would say its as bad as organized crime intimidation.

Care to share any more details on the intimidation that you witnessed?