Trump pardons sailor in submarine photos case

a reply to: soberbacchus

I have mixed feelings about this.

As someone who had at least the clearance he did, we all went through the "what is going to happen to you" talk. And the training. And for some of us, a nice tour of Fort Leavenworth to gently remind you that if you do not play by the rules you agreed to, the penalty can suck.

He didn't play by the rules he agreed to.

I DO understand that one side is saying that it was just innocent photos to show his kids 20 years later? Who thinks like that, btw?

Then he lied and got caught and he destroyed evidence.

I think this pardon is political grandstanding on Trump's part. What is he doing... setting up to pardon Hillary?

This should have been left alone.

I am also wondering if it has anything to do with the new EO put out.

New Executive Order amending the UCMJ

Just an opinion.

Edited to add... why did he think that the information would be declassified in 20 years? The agreement I had to sign said 99 years.

What it tells me is: There will never be any effort to prosecute "Crooked H".

Unfortunately for President Trump, too many Americans believed she deserved prison time. And those same Americans are going to stay home (like they used to) when it comes time to vote.

originally posted by: Bramble Iceshimmer
a reply to: soberbacchus

If they are concerned about state actors seeing something, that ship has sailed already with all the successful hacking of contractors and DOD.

Not to even mention all the State Dept secrets that nitwit Clinton and her goons gave up to hackers with the “yoga” emails.
It wasn’t classified military info but it was still classified info.
This kid should have never been charged at all.
And fu*k Obama too for not pardoning him.

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: soberbacchus

I have mixed feelings about this.

As someone who had at least the clearance he did, we all went through the "what is going to happen to you" talk. And the training. And for some of us, a nice tour of Fort Leavenworth to gently remind you that if you do not play by the rules you agreed to, the penalty can suck.

He didn't play by the rules he agreed to.

I DO understand that one side is saying that it was just innocent photos to show his kids 20 years later? Who thinks like that, btw?

Then he lied and got caught and he destroyed evidence.

I think this pardon is political grandstanding on Trump's part. What is he doing... setting up to pardon Hillary?

This should have been left alone.

I am also wondering if it has anything to do with the new EO put out.

New Executive Order amending the UCMJ

Just an opinion.

I have mixed feelings on it as well. Clinton really needs to be prosecuted. Every one of these offenses is to be taken seriously.

They threw the book at him because he tried to cover up the crime after he denied it happened when first questioned.

It would have most likely been an Article 15/Captain's Mast with reduction in rank (maybe other things depending on his commander such as extra duty, forfeiture of pay, base restrictions, ect) if he had fessed up to the crime.

Cant say I am super happy with the pardon or the comparisons to the Clinton case everyone is making.

I have a question that I would like to know:

If this man was in the Navy at the time, why was he either not taken to the Captain's mast or a court martial?

Why was this done in a civilian court?

There are too many questions, and not enough answers.

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
I have a question that I would like to know:

If this man was in the Navy at the time, why was he either not taken to the Captain's mast or a court martial?

Why was this done in a civilian court?

There are too many questions, and not enough answers.

Best guess as to why no captain's mast is because he lied and tried to destroy evidence. As to the Civilian court instead of court martial, I believe it had to do with possible civilians being involved.

Good on Trump, prison time for taking pictures is pretty ridiculous and I doubt anyone could rebuild an entire ship identically with these few photos.

If it was against policy and he agreed to the terms of said policy then he is still in the wrong but prison is still a bit harsh in my opinion. At most probation or some kind of fine, but prison? Stupid.

a reply to: Pyle

The military is very specific when it comes to trials and US military persons. The base line is that which ever had the greatest punishments would have jurisdiction on the person.

For example: A soldier in the US military gets busted for being drunk in public. The case of the civilian is probably a fine and a few days in jail, but the Military would have a harsher punishment and thus they would claim jurisdiction and do the punishment.

In this particular case, the question is this: Was the man still a part of the US military or a civilian at the time of this case? If he was still in the military, then this should have gone to either Captain's Mast or a court martial, for the punishment would probably been far more harsher than the punishment he got in a civilian court.

originally posted by: Deplorable
What it tells me is: There will never be any effort to prosecute "Crooked H".

Unfortunately for President Trump, too many Americans believed she deserved prison time. And those same Americans are going to stay home (like they used to) when it comes time to vote.

Lots of criminals get a free ride, the ones that don't are the poor ones on the outer of the system, the homeless the jobless, those that are unworthy in the citizens minds.

As others say, the sailor got the book thrown at him because of trying to destroy evidence. Better to have confessed and taken the punishment..

The USA is really serious when it comes to photographs of advanced technology. One of the parallel processing research labs had a Connection Machine supercomputer in their computer room, and they had to cover up the fire door safety glass with black panels, as well as place black boards to form a corridor around the door so that no-one could ever see inside even if the door was open. The same happens with the D-Wave quantum computers now.

Though, seeing those pictures, the first thing I think is how outdated that technology is with the dials, meters and twiddly bits. The yachting and fishing world have moved to touch screens.

Cant say this bothers me over much, having had security clearance and having seen people ignore the rules for pictures to be posted on social media without any real repercussions, and having seen people use the rules to punish someone severely even thought they were 1 of 30 people doing the same thing. (they were chosen because the officer did not like them and wanted them gone)

Add on top of that, the intent argument used to excuse Clinton, there was nothing this kid that should result in his life and his families life being ruined forever. especially when you take into account the few photos that were taken, so the actual minimal risk to national security.

I also understand the destroying evidence argument, this kid probably received some bad advice or was threatened with some insane punishment that made him try to cover it up. (also things I have seen, senior NCO talks about 10+ years hard labor for small mistakes etc, took me a few years to find out most of that talk is hyperbole used to try and keep people scared straight, maybe he never realized it hence the attempt.)

Either way the kid was punished, let him get on with taking care of his family, he certainly did less harm than the IT people that let china farm 22+ million peoples identity at OPM, or the china hacks under Bill Clinton, or the Personal server debacle under the other Clinton, or just pick your stolen state secrets due to incompetence that have never actually been punished.

a reply to: Irishhaf

And let's not forget the shipyard people that left the SSBN prop uncovered after she went into Drydock, and it showed up on various map websites. One of the biggest secrets in the Navy out for all the world to see.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: soberbacchus

I have mixed feelings about this.

As someone who had at least the clearance he did, we all went through the "what is going to happen to you" talk. And the training. And for some of us, a nice tour of Fort Leavenworth to gently remind you that if you do not play by the rules you agreed to, the penalty can suck.

He didn't play by the rules he agreed to.

I DO understand that one side is saying that it was just innocent photos to show his kids 20 years later? Who thinks like that, btw?

Then he lied and got caught and he destroyed evidence.

I think this pardon is political grandstanding on Trump's part. What is he doing... setting up to pardon Hillary?

This should have been left alone.

I am also wondering if it has anything to do with the new EO put out.

New Executive Order amending the UCMJ

Just an opinion.

I have mixed feelings on it as well. Clinton really needs to be prosecuted. Every one of these offenses is to be taken seriously.

If a President thinks that OJ Simpson was guilty of murder and should have been convicted does he pardon another man for murdering his wife to make his point?

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Good on Trump, prison time for taking pictures is pretty ridiculous and I doubt anyone could rebuild an entire ship identically with these few photos.

Analysts said the pictures he took revealed the capabilities of the Nuclear Submarine. It's range of speed and other specifics that could be used to predict where the submarine was or where it could move to in a given period of time.

If it was against policy and he agreed to the terms of said policy then he is still in the wrong but prison is still a bit harsh in my opinion. At most probation or some kind of fine, but prison? Stupid.

Denying he took the pictures and then destroying his cell phone, PC and digital camera?

If he had been transparent about it he would have appeared less suspicious and they need to make an example out of people that lie to the FBI and Commanders about taking classified pictures and then destroying evidence to hide the crime.

And this wasn't a "policy" issue. It was classified material.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: soberbacchus

The guy wanted to show his kids a picture of himself on a sub in 20 years when its all declassified.

He didnt take crazy revealing pictures. He was sitting at a station and over 90% of the pictures were entirely of himself. The rest didnt really reveal instrumentation or anything.

Everything I have read and seen appeared the opposite of what you described.

He exactly took pictures of instrumentation and none of the declassified evidence pictures included him?

He must be John Cena, because you can't see him

a reply to: soberbacchus

I am confused by one element of the case against this man, this service person... Given that this person is a US citizen, and in the military to boot, what utterly baseless and unconstitutional law was it that prohibited the man from having an unregistered firearm?

Registration is not mandatory at the federal level, is it? Has America fallen that close in these specific terms, to the fate of my own beloved Britain?

a reply to: TrueBrit

If he lived on base then yes, he was required to register any weapons with base security forces.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I was cleared to work around nukes on the B-52, I was a Flight Engineer, I was deployed to areas that we are not officially at.


I was trained and qualified with the M-9, and the M-4, and the M-16.


With all that clearance and all that training I was not trusted to have a personal firearm on base, it has to be turned in to security forces.
Its one of those utterly absurd things the military does.

originally posted by: Zaphod58


If he lived on base then yes, he was required to register any weapons with base security forces.

Do you know how many guns are not registered... lots Including in the dorms where they should store them at the armory.